posted 03-08-2004 12:00 PM         

If you persuade your siter not to abort are you going to take the pups and hand feed them should the worst happen to Angel or if she will not look after the litter which usually happens with very young mothers.

My advice is to let your sister go ahead and abort the litter and i think she should have her spayed at the same time so this does not happen again.

This close of breeding is risky and is only ever done by breeders that know the full genetic make up of both parents and know if there is any defects in the line.

Since they are are brother and sister the chances of genetic defects could be high as you dont know the history of both dogs.

Like i stated the kindest and most caring thing to do is abort the litter before something goes wrong she is only a baby.

posted 03-09-2004 09:55 AM         

You claim

quote:

---

And i'm not a byb so i will be giving away these pups to responsible people

---

You are claiming not to be a BYB yet you want to breed a dog when it is only 14 months old and just because his GRANDPARENTS were in show biz? If you haven't researched breeding, your dogs lines, proven your dog breed worthy, done health testing, and have a adequete room to keep pups to continue your breeding program then your not a responsible breeder, you are a BYB breeding pets. You say they will go to responsible people, these people are your friends. Thats well and all but how many of these people will decided to breed their pets creating more dogs and so on and so on. Just because you give pups away doesn't mean you are doing the righ thing. I can't speak for you, but every BYB I have ever met claims their dogs go to good homes and never end up unwanted or in shelters. Whether they sell them or give them away. I hear so many of them claiming this, claiming their dogs are perfectly healthy, great pets, and that they would even take a pup/dog back, all these are empty words and they never do anything they say/said they would do. If you truly have TEN friends who are interested in getting an APBT then send them to a rescue or shelter if they are just looking for a pet, that could be TEN PITS LIVES SAVED.

quote:

---

i'm not so sure i want to get cheeko fixed because his grandparents were in show biz and he has a good show biz look and i'm thinking about breeding him when he's around 14 months old is that a good age?

---

Just because a dogs grandparents may have one some shows, or even become CH themselves if no reason to believe their grand pups are of the same quality. Just because a dog has a nice pedigree is no excuse for breeding. That is how you end up with dogs from a seemyling good line with a nice pedigree being substandard or even poor quality. Because of paper breeders. A showbred female I had full of CH, ACE, CH/ACE and some match winners. This was no reason to breed her when she herself was bought as a pet and has faults. So the best thing to do was spay her. A pedigree only tells us what the dog has descended from and what the dog could be, but not all of the dog will meet up to the standards of those they are bred down from.

Under no circumstances should you breed a 14 month old. At least wait for a dog to mature. You can't even get OFA certs until he is 2yrs.

You said he has good show biz look, but he is only 7 months that could easily change with maturity. Dogs can develop fualts with age. Has he been asessed by a judge who told you he has a "show biz" look or been shown in conformation events recently?

This is all something to think about and take serious consideration of. Puppy over population is a big deal and if you know your friends are responsible and deserving of a dog/pup then they would be equipped for a rescue dog and have no trouble getting one. Instead of breeding more dogs for pets. I hope you understand, I'm not being rude about it. Your sister made the best decision in aborting the litter and spaying her female.

posted 03-10-2004 12:35 AM         

I agree with a lot of what True Pits has said, especially with regards to health testing and not breeding until after 2 years of age. I do want to add that cheeko'smommy was asking (which I think is responsible) if 14 months was a good age to breed. Cheeko, no one can tell you not to breed and as you said your dog is from show lines (true this doesn't always mean anything) - but it might help if you could discuss this with your dog's breeder. Perhaps the breeder can assess your dog, and you can sit down and talk about it together.

posted 03-10-2004 04:10 AM         

People Spay/Nueter there pets to avoid unwanted puppies and as its been pointed on in numurous posts there is alot of pits put to sleep everyday.

(Just do some research and you and your dog will be fine. But make sure the female is in 100% physical and mental condition.)

the male and female need to be Hip,Eye,Heart checked Breeding an animal that is not of show quality or to better the breed is irresponsible. So saying that to make sure the female is in physical and mental condition means nothing some females will never be mothers due to having no maternal instincts and end up with abandoned or neglected puppies.

Yes we can not tell someone to breed there dogs but unless everything is researched and i dont mean looking round the net for a couple of days researching can take years to find all the relevant information on the breed, Genetics, Breeding problems,Whelping problems,Birth Defects and so on.

There is no gurantee that he is a fertile dog there is no gurantee that the female used would carry her puppies to term there is way to many risks of breeding without doing years of research and reading up on all the problems that can happen to the mother and litter during pregnancy and during and after the birth reading up on this helps people decide wether they are willing to put there dogs through it.
Also the risk of the female turning on the male during mating and a fight breaking out is high and there is where damage comes to both dogs as even though the female is held so not to pull the male around she will attack her owner to get at the male to get him off her.

So before any breeding is done a hell of research, talking to breeders of that breed talking to the vets and so on then breeding should not be done by a novice.

Just my opinion.

posted 03-10-2004 09:08 AM         

I'm sorry, but just how do you plann on keeping your males from breeding bitches inheat? DOyou realize the lengths that dogs will go to to get to a bitch?? It's unbelievable.

So your downing someone to get their dog fixed, yet you yourself have just as lame an excuse to not get yours done.....
THink about it. No offence, but practice what you preach. And no its not just the "talking to breeders." its Having the MALE checked too. He may very well be carrying deadly and horrible diseases. or Genetic defects.
Personally, If your dog has a litter of 10, how are you planning on keeping them all?? Are you going to allow them to run free with their "woman, and man hoods"? That will do nothing but cause inbreeding and then we're back to the original post then aren't we?

Perhaps you know what your doing, I'm just a bit confused as to your posts, sounds like you don't, and I really hope you do your research first, and realize, its not immoral to desex a pet, but safer, healthier, and much better for the population in general.

posted 03-17-2004 04:26 PM         

(Quote)
Most of the agressive pitts out there that gives all the good ones bad reputations are imbred. Imbreding pitts like dobies ca lead to a massive amount of problems when they start growing up. They will most likely have bad temperments which will lead to fear biting, their brain could grow to fast and too big for their skulls and it will put pressure on their brains making them go literally insane, they will have numerous health problems.
_____________________________________________

posted 03-17-2004 06:25 PM         

quote:

---

their brain could grow to fast and too big for their skulls and it will put pressure on their brains making them go literally insane

---

quote:

---

Most of the agressive pitts out there that gives all the good ones bad reputations are imbred.

---

quote:

---

They will most likely have bad temperments which will lead to fear biting

---

quote:

---

they will have numerous health problems.

---

posted 03-18-2004 07:12 PM         

I was told I’m the ignorant one and to do a little research. I’ve had experience and done extensive research because of the very fact I only want to have the best possible and do everything right. What I didn’t learn growing up, watching/talking to others, and from my own experience I’ve probably learned through research. In no books or other publications does it state that inbreeding causes APBTs head to grow to large for their skull and create pressure on their brains making them go insane. No breeder has ever stated this or believes this. It was said that this was supposed to be BYBs inbreeding. When BYBs inbred and they may get bad dogs, its not because the dogs brain grows too large for their heads.