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 Pitts are NOT vicious by nature
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| Author | Topic: Pitts are NOT vicious by nature |
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lldvlshangel Member  Posts: 10 |
posted 03-16-2004 07:05 PM
 
Im sorry everyone has their own opinion. I am a strong beleiver that pitts are not vicious b.c its in their genes. Pitts can be vicious for a few different reasons... 1. Their breeding is not good..somewhere along the line there was imbreeding 2. They are abused or neglected 3. They are not socialized properly 4. They have bad temperments and they are fearbiters I own a pitt. He is the most loving , caring, dog i have ever owned. I had two pomerinians and they attacked a small child. Talk about being vicious. Ill never own another one of those. I hate people who hear the word pittbul and immediatly they have something bad to say. IP: Logged |
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loves-da-pits Member Posts: 43 |
posted 03-16-2004 08:13 PM
Pib Bull Terriors go back to the Roman erra when they bred Mastiffs and Terriers for game-sport. Over the years people have perfected the perfect dog for blood sport. Pit bulls have been bred to be tenacious,loyal to their handlers, oblivious to pain afflicted. Their sole purpose in life is please their handler and to eliminate the competition.I agree, in certain ethnic groups breeding this type of dog is still acknowledged, but has been outlawed. These dogs, when handled with care, can be the most trusted and worthy of a pet than anyone could ever hope to have. With Love, nurturing, training,and supervision, these dogs can become a possitive fixture in home with children. Pits aren't usually fearbiters because of their confidence. It is up to the owner to properly socialize them. The Pit Bull Terrior is not for the casual pet owner. But if you're willing to take on the challenge and the responsibility, this is the best experience you can ever have sharing your life with a specific breed of dog. IP: Logged |
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lil bull Member Posts: 27 |
posted 03-16-2004 08:25 PM
THE PIT BULL AND THE PENDULUM OF DOOM The Dilemma of Breed Specific Canine Legislation Jim Engel http://www.centaurigr.com/pb/PitPlace.htm IP: Logged |
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GinaH Member Posts: 70 |
posted 03-16-2004 08:35 PM
lldvlshangel: I have read several of your replys as well as this post and you keep bringing up how terrible inbreeding is? I feel you are wrong about that, IF it is done by capable responsible breeders. You can go back and read some of the old post on here you will see several post on the subject of inbreeding and some really great replys. Im going to try and crosspost some of the replys about inbreeding. chickee Most people who do not breed really have no knowledge of these things, so it is a natural response to think it deplorable. It is a normal "TOOL" in the breeding process. Breeders most always linebreed, (and inbreed every so often.) Rarely, unless necessary to strengthen the blood, will they breed to a dog from a different "family" - (called scatter-breeding). By the way, linebreeding is breeding with aunts, uncles, grandparents, cousins...you get the drift. PS. Think about it! How do you think they make a breed of dog to begin with? How do they make a line within a breed? There are SO many lines within the APBT breed alone. INBREEDING! ------------------
IP: Logged quote: That shows what little you know about inbreeding. Chickee and Goob have the right information. how horrible does this dog look to you? Not deformed at all IMO!!
This girl isn't too bad herself....
She is triple bred off one stud. Her sire is out of the stud and her dam is the stud bred back to his daughter. And the stud comes from a 1/2bro X 1/2 sis breeding (same sire). Many great dogs are inbred. Ever here of Bailey's Bingo 4times Red Boy in 4 gen and once more in the 5th gen. Bingo produced many great producer, tight bred dogs often make good brood stock. Boyles' CH Bobby Jr (triplebred Bolio), CH Gator ROM(triplebred Jeep), his daughter CH MIss Gator 7xs Jeep in 4 gens, CH Rascal ROM (double bred Eli Jr), Garner's Angel (Dbl bred Chinaman) and not to say that is a very small fraction of quality inbred dogs. And all the ADBA CH and ACE dogs, of good health, temperament and appearance. Such as Villines' CH Just-A-Jezebel who is from their CH A/A I Sylver dog bred to his daughter, and the double bred(1/2 sibling breeding) CH A/A I Sylver littermates ACE Up N Atem, CH Hubba Bubba, and ACE Super Nova who is going to be CH real soon. Lots of cadwell's dog like CH Gigi & CH Hawk who is GR CH Boogieman to his daughter, oh but now I guess you are calling them inhumane and irresponsible even though they happen to be one of the truly best breeders to ever grace the breed. Right!!! Sorry but they only breed quality dogs, inbred, line bred or outcrossed. Many, many responsible breeders do this, it is in no way inhumane. The only breeders who have anything bad to say about it are people with sub quality dogs that don't know what they are doing and try to sound smart or important and sell their dogs. Like that stupid jerk trying to sell his scatterbred dogs that were man biters or had shy/fear problems. When asked why to stay away from inbred dogs he had no answer. Learn something before you give other people false information and spread rumors and lies. IP: Logged IP: Logged |
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loves-da-pits Member Posts: 43 |
posted 03-16-2004 09:02 PM
Inbreeding is totally acceptable by breeders who are knowledgeable about genetics and DNA.I went to School for Vet Technition, and the genetics course was the hardest for me. It was very involved. If you are a knowedgeable breeder and ethical when retireing a line you are breeding, I rather have people like this breeding pups than a Joe Blow trying to make a buck! IP: Logged |
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lldvlshangel Member Posts: 10 |
posted 03-17-2004 04:28 AM
No i dont think imbreding is good. But like i said everyone has their own opinion. I would never buy a pitt that is imbred. I am careful to look at all my pitts pedigrees before i buy them. I happen to think alot more bad things can coe from imbreeding than good. IP: Logged |
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Samsintentions Member Posts: 944 |
posted 03-17-2004 06:12 AM
Inbreeding is horrible to those who know nothing of what they are doing. It should NEVER be done with out the knowledge of the products and results you'll get. I posted it should never be done, by novices! apparently you took that the wrong way. Yes, if done correctly and researched heavily, the outcome can create tremendous animals. IP: Logged |
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bullylove1 Member Posts: 173 |
posted 03-17-2004 08:20 AM
lldvlshangel, No need to tell us how great these dogs are. That's why we're all here ------------------ IP: Logged |
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True_Pits Member Posts: 373 |
posted 03-17-2004 01:02 PM
quote: There are opinions and then there are facts. Inbreeding isn't bad and it is a very helpful tool in a breeding program. Wild animals also breed but I dont see them having any problems. I don't know where you got your knowledge on inbreeding. Why you think this accounts for vicious dogs. The worse dog I ever knew was a scatterbred bitch. Another bitch won't attack or act really aggressive but will growl and has bitten before. She is from a line bred sire to an extremely scatterbred female. Actually the entire litter I know of aggressive dogs (among other problems) is from a loose bred male to a bitch of unknown breeding. Vicious dogs in general are usually from scatterbred and often times unknown lineage at all. Other times you will see some loose linebreeding and of course no matter what kind of breeding (scatterbred-inbred) if you breed ill dogs with one another you will get ill dogs. When I buy a dog I look at the parents, the line, and the pedigree, but I will get/breed what I need be that linebred, outcrossed or inbred. I think you need to stop talking BS, especially when it comes to other people dogs. Which includes mine. I'm reallty getting [**LANGUAGE EDIT**] over this but i feel I have the right to be mad. Its not only me, its like all the other reputable, responsible breeders with some of the best dogs to ever be bred. These are fine animals. I don't know what kind of breeder you are buying from??? I guess there are enough BYBs breeders out there with scatterbred dogs or dogs they don't even know their history to keep you happy. My most friendliest dog, all wagging tail, rubbing on you, wagging his whole body, totallty excited way too friendly is inbred. All his littermates are the same way and the rest of the line from years back to present day but they are inbred. Not only that but he is a fine representative of the breed, including temp. He is better than I expected, which I'm very glad about.
I find that people who lie about inbreeding don't have any real breeding experience and are ignorant to breeding in general.
quote: Well thats obvious all those dogs you mentioned have bad temperaments, from not being socialized to abused. They bite then have bad temperaments. Some dogs are born "vicious" and have bad temperaments, even if they are raised right, trained, and socialized. This is with any bred, why would you believe the Pit Bull is exempt of this? It is spelled Pit with one t by the way. [This message has been edited by True_Pits (edited 03-17-2004).] [This message has been edited by Jas (edited 03-17-2004).] IP: Logged |
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lldvlshangel Member Posts: 10 |
posted 03-17-2004 05:02 PM
I think you need to stop talking BS, especially when it comes to other people dogs. Which includes mine. I'm reallty getting [**LANGUAGE EDIT**] over this but i feel I have the right to be mad. Its not only me, its like all the other reputable, responsible breeders with some of the best dogs to ever be bred. These are fine animals. I don't know what kind of breeder you are buying from??? Whoa there calm down....first of all im not dissing anybodies dogs..I dont feel like you have a right to be mad. I didnt say that it should be outlawed or anything i just said its not my style. Im not saying responsible breeders that know their [**LANGUAGE EDIT**] about genetics are bad...its quite the contrary. Tru pits i think you have some kind of issue. Your way too defensive...take a chill pill noone is bsing your dogs...personally i have my OWN opinions...and you have YOURS. Lets leave it at that. [This message has been edited by Jas (edited 03-17-2004).] IP: Logged |
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lldvlshangel Member Posts: 10 |
posted 03-17-2004 05:12 PM
QUOTE:Why not blame the real reason Pits are vicious on the truth and not something you made up. Guess you didn't do any research into the breed at all, or you would have seen all the inbreeding and line breeding that took place, all the great dogs of the past and now the dogs of the present. Some of the best are heavily inbred dogs. But suit yourself, your not hurting anyone else. No need to pollute peoples minds and lie about things though either!!!
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loves-da-pits Member Posts: 43 |
posted 03-17-2004 05:36 PM
True_Pits: love the pics of your dogs. They're A+++++++. lldvlshangel: Resposible Inbreeding is recognized in AKC,ADBA, & ADOA.I understand where you're coming from with you concerns, but read up on it and I'm sure you will see thing differently. IP: Logged |
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lldvlshangel Member Posts: 10 |
posted 03-17-2004 05:41 PM
Thank you for not being rude. I understand where everyone is coming from. I was trying to say that I think the breeders who do that should be heavily educated in that feild of breeding! Anyways thanks for understanding my veiw. IP: Logged |
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True_Pits Member Posts: 373 |
posted 03-17-2004 06:34 PM
quote: No you didn't say its "not my style" you said it is the reason Pits have a bad name, and they have bad temperaments and a bunch of other BS about brains getting too big for their skulls...lol What in the world you are claiming to like Pits or at least on this message board trying to say good things about them yet you say something Pit Bull Haters have made up and actually believe it. I do have a right to be mad when people constantly talk lies. When you lie about inbreeding you are lying about my dogs. I do have issues, with stupid people. Your opinions are lies against the breed and breeding as a whole and my dogs. Even if it wasn't my dogs I would still have a problem with people hurting the reputation of the APBT and would still state the truth. Opinions don't account for anything when there are facts. The spelling well thats kind of obvious someone claiming to own this breed but can't even spell it right. And if they really do own it, tells you what kind of owner they are an uneducated one having done no research. IP: Logged |
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lldvlshangel Member Posts: 10 |
posted 03-17-2004 06:43 PM
ARE YOU A VET???? DO YOU REALLY KNOW WHAT I AM SAYING IS TRUE OR IS IT YOUR EXPERIENCE THAT IT ISNT??? YOU OBVIOUSLY HAVE NO CLUE AND MAYBE YOU YOURSELF SHOULD DO A LITTLE RESEARCH. I THINK YOU ARE THE ONE WHO IS STUPID AND IGNORANT BY NOT REALIZING THAT NOT EVERYONE LIKES YOUR BREEDING STLYE. GET A GRIP AND GET OVER YOURSELF. I REGARD YOUR DOGS HIGHER THAN I REGARD YOU. I DID SAY THAT IS THE REASON WHY THEY HAVE A BAD REP. I SAID IT IS ONE OF THE MANY REASONS WHY THEY HAVE BAD NAMES. AND BY IMBREEDING I MEANT BYIMBREEDING. GET OVER YOURSELF... IP: Logged |
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True_Pits Member Posts: 373 |
posted 03-17-2004 08:55 PM
Over myself, what the hell is imbreeding anyway. Its inbreeding your no vet I'm sure. Vets know how to spell very well and usually go off factual information, not saying a dog is aggressive because it head gets to big for its skull and puts pressure on its brain. You can barely look at any good quality pedigrees without seeing inbreeding, esp somewhere along the lines. Experience obviously, not something I made up, but it was kind of funny. Of course its nothing original the brain size is something many people trying to outlaw Pits(and other breeds) use along with other BS "facts" on why the dogs are vicious and dangerous. I'm not a vet and never claimed to be, but let me guess you are and have done the autopsies and there brains were so huge. Now you were saying you were talking about BYBs inbreeding to change your story, thats nice. But not what you meant, b/c thats not what your post stated "somewhere along the line there was imbreeding". And if you meant BYB you would just say BYBs and not include inbreeding because those people no matter which they are doing have bad temperaments so it had nothing to do with them inbreeding or scatterbreeding, ect it has to do with breeding poor quality dogs. I'm sure your dogs are just the greatest, from the best breeder and everything. One who doesn't even know about inbreeding, probably like the guy who told my friend to stay away from inbred dogs. But of course he couldn't answer why, just wanted to sound smart and repeat BS he had heard somewhere. Not to mention he had has poorlybred, 65lbs+, scatterbred man biters with a pair that he breeds and the grandsire, of course if people ask about what bloodline so he sounds like he knows something and can fool people he says Hemphill and its the best and old, old bloodline and rare, ect..lol The dogs are barely hemphill anything. So what if you don't like it (for some odd unexplanable reason), does that mean you should put it down, make up facts and lie about it? you are telling me to do a little research and here you are believin that Pit Bulls are aggressive because their brains get too big for there heads. and I'm stupid for not realizing not everyone likes me breeding style...lol. I like how you say that "my breeding style" Have no idea why its mine. i do what it the best, which isn't always to inbred. Its not mine at all, inbreeding is used by breeders, the people way, way before me. Actually thats how many breeds came to be in the first place. Its not mine at all. Its something that people with real knowledge, real responsible, reputable breeders use to create better dogs, and they also linebred and outcross, 3 way cross whatever. They don't wake up one morning and say "Hey, I'm going to use inbreeding style to breed some dogs" I'm stupid but you say these dogs end up with health problems, but they clear their health testing just fine, and sometimes better because breeding a good family of dogs closely together locks out the health problems from coming in.
quote: No it isn't true. Inbreding doesn't cause health or temperament problems. That can be in any form of breeding. It can be a lot worse with inbreeding and you can end up with horrible dogs, not because the practice of inbreding is bad, but because you started with a bad foundation. If you did an outcross with 2 bad dogs you get bad dogs. If you did an inbreeding with 2 bad dogs son/mom you get bad dogs, the son has the bad traits of the mom and combined with that would double these specific traits. If you are doing a scatterbreeding of 2 bad dogs you get bad dogs and can end up with other problems that you didn't know existed because they could come from any number of the lines and ancestors that were all thrown together to make some sloppy, poorly bred dog. I don't know how it could be true in your experience? I don't honestly believe you have gone around asking Pit Bull owners who's dogs have bit/attacked/mauled/killed how their dog was bred? I mean come on most owerns don't even know or care. Even if the dog was registered they never sent off the papers or bothered to ask the person they baught it from what bloodlines and how the dog was bred. And lots of dogs are not registered and no one knows how they are bred at all. You rpoms were inbred? Is that the experience you are basing all this off?
quote: I know, but its not. There are lots of reasons like the ones you listed, abuse neglect, not socialized. But I think poor breeding is the biggest factor, where you see the worse cases poor bred dogs. You also see a lot with people teaching their dog to attack and guard, but its no doubt that the majority of these people have poorly bred dogs. I have seen many, many dogs that were not socialized but they are just as normal as any other well bred dog out there. Pit Bulls should have a stable mind and body and sound temperament, when people start BYB they destroy and don't care about what they are breeding. Lots of times its for money anyway so they aren't going to care about the welfare of the breed. They breed dogs with bad temp and health regardless that they shouldn't be.
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True_Pits Member Posts: 373 |
posted 03-17-2004 09:17 PM
I have something else too. I know this thread is already going in different ways and this is just going to spread it out more. But did anyone else see that Little Tab's DNA is almost identicle to Tabs. He is a triple bred Tab dog, however so are his littermates but they do not have a profile like this. Little Tab is practically Tab's clone. There DNA profiles 7 out of 10 match tabs(homozygous), and then the other 3 are heterozygous so they are still half of tabs (of course b/c he is the sire). I'm going to go look it back up and see if I can't post this some how. Its pretty amazing. Tab (1st 5) Tab (next 5) [This message has been edited by True_Pits (edited 03-17-2004).] IP: Logged |
Jas Moderator Posts: 536 |
posted 03-17-2004 10:12 PM
Lets tone it down a little folks, there is no need to get angry and hostile. Not everyone has to agree. If you feel you've CLEARLY explained your views then that should be sufficient. Take the high road and agree to disagree. IP: Logged |
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