Dog fear of men? or just husband?

We have adopted an expuppymill breeder. She is a 5 yr. old pomeranian. Cute as a button. We got her from a rescue group. My husband went and picked her up from one of their adoption days. It was about 120 miles from our house. Since we have 5 other dogs, I stayed at home with them while he made the trip.

She was very good in the car. Seemed to like the car ride, was happy looking out the window. And that evening, she seemed happy. My husband held her for about 2 hours. She loved it. And she seemed to like me too.

Then, literally, it seems over night she changed. She loves me and wants nothing to do with my husband. She is terrified of him. And he has been nothing but kind and gentle towards her.

We have had her for 6 weeks now and nothing has changed. In fact it seems to be worse. She growls whenever she hears him coming. He tried to pick her up and she bit him. It didn't break the skin, but it was still a fear bite. We have tried him being the treat giver. She will take the treat, very fearfully I may add, but then bolts for her crate. I have tried locking the door on the crate and making her stay out of it during the day. She just camps out in front of the door.

But if my husband leaves, she comes out in the other room with me and the other dogs and seems happy.

Then, when he returns, back she runs to the crate.

We don't know what to do. Is it that she is afraid of men or just him? And on either case, WHY, did she like him at first?

I know mill dogs have special needs and it takes time and patience, but how long should we give it? She can't truly be happy if she is constantly looking over her shoulder out of fear. We want to keep her as long as it takes, but just don't know what to do.

Any ideas? Should we force her to spend time with him?

 

Strange behavior indeed but like most rescues your girl does seem to have deep seated emotional hang-ups. I suspect the dog was mistreated by a man in the past. Perhaps the initial trauma of being re-located overwhelmed the dog on the first ride home.and she didn't even recognize your husbands presence.

I am not a behavior expert by any means but I am pretty sure all here would agree to never force a dog into any situation. That will only reinforce the fear.

This extreme case probably requires a consultation with a professional behavioral specialist.
I would also recommend that your husband do all of the feedings as well as sitting quietly with treats and allowing the dog to approach rather than the other way around.

 

I agree with Dukesdad.
The dog probably didn't even recognize you husband's presence the first night of relocating.

I also agree that the dog was probably abused (accidentally or otherwise) in it's previous home.

I also believe that letting your husband handle the feeding and watering will help. His patience will be rewarded in time if he just stays in the background and lets her come to him.

Here's a trick I have used with shy dogs ---- I kept a few treats, or a handful of kibble in my pocket. The dogs just loved my yummy smell, and it encouraged them to be a little friendlier with me. It enabled me to have a treat close at hand to at first put on the ground and after a while - take from my hand.

 

Is your husband taking ambien? (haha bc of the sleep walking and it happened over night0

My dog was very afraid of my husband when we were first together, but eventually they got used to each other and I think some days (not all) Luther even prefers my husband to me!
But this is after 4 years or so, but the warmed up to each other last year or so. good luck!

 

Good points in both posts, Im assuming youve only just got the dog in the last few days? Im actually having a similar problem with my dog Krissie (long story) my BF isnt doing what Im telling him he needs to do though and seems to have his own ideas on what 'should work' (hes never had a dog before) and as a result Im frustrated like mad and the dog has gone from being scared of him to being absolutely terrified, full bodied shaking to the point that if shes on the laminate flooring she moves along it, shes also started growling at him as well (wont be much longer!!!)

Anyway, your dog may not necessarily have been abused by a man, she just may not be used to men, if shes naturally submissive then any male could be intimidating to her.

I dont think theres much more I could suggest that hasnt been already, have him be the only one that feeds her, takes her for walks, keep small tasty treats with him (something like chicken pieces or bologne or something, not biscuits or anything that she normally gets, so that way its a 'special' treat that she only associates with him).

I wouldnt recommend forcing them together but you can create situationsthat might help, for example when you go out, if hes at home and say in the living room watching TV then close the door, make sure she has an area she can be in, like a dog bed but not somewhere she can hide and doesnt come out like if there are gaps under the furniture block them off for now. Then every 10 minutes or so he could just say something like "hi sweetie" in a friendly calm voice and at arms distance offer her a little treat even if that means kind of tossing it to her at first and then moving away from her, I wouldnt advise getting close to her, if she feels trapped shell most likely bite him again. That said....theoretically what should happen is gradually she will start to approach him for the treat, it helps if he uses a key word when hes offering the treat, something that she wont confuse with anything else and every time she hears that word she gets a treat....(there was a woman that needed to do some work to get her dog ready for a show, she used the word 'trophy'....every time the dog heard 'trophy' he looked for his treat)shell be cautious and he will need to make sure he doesnt move too quickly or suddenly stand up, thatll just put her further back than she already is.

You say you have other dogs, is there a dog that she is getting along with pretty good? This could well go in your favour. Have your husband spend time by themselves, your hubby, the pom and the dog the pom gets along with, she will be watching any interaction that goes on between your hubby and the other dog, playing ball, the other dog getting pleasant attention and it should help relax her. I know this has worked very well in some cases. If there are too many dogs present then it probably wont work, at least not as well as with only one other dog.

I do agree with Dukesdad though in that you may well need a bahaviourist to come in assess the situation and come up with a plan, its one thing giving some tips on the board, it can be a different thing altogether when you can actually watch the dog responding, watch teh body language, looking for triggers that cause certain reactions.

Good luck.

 

I agree with everything said. He should talk softly around her, maybe try to modify his deep voice (which they can find threatening), carry treats, do all the feeding, etc. Have him sit on the floor watching TV and totally ignoring her, with yummy treats in his hands. Let her go at her own speed. It will likely take months or more for this to improve significantly, but I think patience will pay off.

 

Sasha the scared pom

First of all, I just want to say that I love this message board. I've been around a lot of different ones and this one is by far, my favorite. It is very informative and helpful. I'd like to thank all who write here with ideas and opinions.

Well, this morning we are trying what some of you have suggested. Last night, my husband fixed dinner. He does a mean macaroni and cheese entre Anyway, I shredded the block of cheddar cheese and left out a couple of pieces for Sasha (that is the scared pom). He took the cheese and just tossed it over to her, where she just happened to be sitting in front of her crate. The door was locked. She showed the whites of her eyes, but took the cheese and ate it.

Then, this morning, he gave her a bowl of dog food. She was in her usual spot in front of her crate. Growled at him, but didn't run. He went out of the house to go down the road to pickup our newspaper. We live in a very rural area off a gravel road and the carrier will not come up to the house. Anyway, she just sat in the same spot the whole time he was gone and did not eat any of the food. I looked at her and she was trembling. But after about 20 minutes, she is still in the same spot, but eating the food.

I can tell this is going to be a verrry long process. I just hope I don't run out of patience. I really love the little thing but this is breaking my heart knowing how scared she is of him. And I'm sure it doesn't do much for him either, although he says it doesn't bother him.

Do you think we are doing the right thing by her by keeping her? Perhaps she would be better in a woman only household? I really don't want to give up, but am I just being selfish? She has got to be the cutest pom I've ever seen. A cute little fox face, black with tan markings. Wonderful coat, sturdy legs, no health issues that I can see. She's been to the vet and is spayed and up to date on all shots.

If I could figure out how to post a picture, I would.

 

Give her some time! I had a little foster dog named Missy. She was abused as a puppy and was TERRIFIED of new places and people. The first home she went to said she hid in her crate for TWO WEEKS. They had to pry her out to go potty. She ate and drank in her crate. Then she started coming out. It took about 4 months for her to warm up to the husband, and she never really got the hang of the small kids - they were too unpredictable in their movements. But she was happy and outgoing and they loved her to death - except that she was a brat with their other dog and eventually they decided to give her up.

I took her in to foster her. She only hid in her crate for two DAYS this time. Then she started coming out when we were in a different room. She would explore but run back to her crate if we looked at her. After another couple of days, she was totally adjusted as long as no one new came into the house.

I think your little girl will be fine, if you just give her time. My preference is to leave the crate open and let her hide if she wants to, although I confess I started closing Missy's crate sometimes because her next favorite place was on a corner of the couch and I felt like I could interact with her a little when she was there.

Having your husband toss treats to her is a GREAT idea. Slowly have him toss them slightly farther away from her, so she has to take a step or two to get them, and then a little farther, etc. He should avoid eye contact with her, and stand sideways to her. Dogs can find it threatening if you stare at them or are facing directly at them.

 

Is your vet a male or female? If a male how did she handle the experience?

 

Well, I don't think she has actually been to *our* vet. The rescue group that we got her from, has male vet and I guess she did okay. I don't really know how she responded to him.

Since we have gotten her (over 6 weeks ago), we took her to our groomer for a bath and nail trim. The groomer is a female and she is in the same office with our vet. By the way, our vet is a woman. But I don't think while she was there for the bath, she actually saw the vet.

So, we are lucky in that when she does need to go to the vet it's a woman. That is, if it's a man phobia that she has. In a way, I hope it's that and not just my husband. I can't see anything he has done that would make it a personal issue.

Right now, my husband is bringing in the trash can into the basement, so Sasha has ventured away from the crate and is hiding behind the computer desk where I am right now.

The minute he comes in the house, she will growl and perhaps do a bark, but stay hid behind the computer. What a strange little girl. I noticed she managed to eat most of the food in her bowl. So, nothing wrong with the appetite

Pretty soon I will be bringing the other little house dogs inside. They consist of, a pocket size beagle, a beagle/bassett, a miniature poodle, a miniature schnauzer and a 13 lb. american eskimo/pom mix. So far, I have seen a little bit of play between the beagle and Sasha.

Yep, I was right, in comes my husband and off goes the growl and the bark.

 

Well, if he's ever lost his temper in her presence - even if it had nothing to do with her - that could make her scared. Like, if he yelled at a child or even just yelled (I would never rant and rave like that :shock: ) when she was in the room, it could have frightened her.

 

I think all she needs is time, she has been thru so much it cant be solved overnight. Wylie came to us as a stray and it took her a very long to time warm up to us.

a pocket beagle :shock: :shock: , never heard of one that one

 

I don't know if the breed really exists anymore (pocket beagle). They are very small, smaller than the standards. Holly, the beagle, is only about 9 1/2 to 10 inches tall at the withers. And weighs about 15 pounds. Looks like a forever puppy. But she will be 2 this July. She is another puppymill rescue. She was born with luxated patellas (not sure of the spelling), that is, her knee is on the inside of the leg, rather than in the groove in the middle. I'm not sure if she even has the little grooves. When she walks, she looks like a little cowboy. This is on the two back legs. But she runs, jumps and plays just fine. Nothing holds her back and doesn't seem to be in any kind of pain.

 

Okay...I was under the impression you had just got her within a couple of days of your initial post.

I really think that if youve seriously tried everything thats already been suggested here and its not working then you really need to get a professional in to help you out. (By serious I mean things like your husband taking her for walks a couple of times a day, just the two of them, I know you said you live in a rural area and Im thinking that you have plenty of space for your dogs to run around in an enclosed area but that one on one time for them, 15 or 20 minutes each time could do a lot of good.)

Reason being, the longer this goes on, her response to your husband, its going to end up as more than just a 'fear response', shes basically being 'conditioned' to respond that way. We always talk about conditioned response when teaching dogs things like 'go potty', 'here' etc....it works through repetition and consistency....doing things the same way every time....unfortunately the same 'rule' applies to negative responses....meaning things like, your husband comes in, she hides and growls and no-one is doing anything to change that....how will she learn shes not to respond that way....that said, it needs to handled correctly.

Im not saying that you cant do it or that she cant change, she can change but I think that there may be a little misunderstanding and miscommunication going on. Theres no quick fix, I know that you mentioned giving her to someone, like a female only owner but thats really not going to help if she has a deep-rooted fear is of men in general that she feels 'trapped' with (being in the same house/room etc) then there are two options for her, either she stays like that and is never put in a position where there are men around....which long term will her fear will only get worse....or...someone works with her now before it gets any worse. Like I said, it wont be a quick fix but if your committed to her then with the right help you can most likely make it work.

I really do wish you all the best of luck with her.

 

Oh--- I was also under the impression from your first post that the dog had only been with you for a few days.

I agree with DeLaUK. 6 weeks is a long time for this situation to have become imbedded as a fear. You may need to get some outside help with either a behaviorist and/or training.

 

I don't know, it is a long time, but it took my dog a looooong time to get used to my hubby. But now they love each other.

 

Im sorry, I thought I put in my first post that we've had her for 6 weeks now.

Anyway, we have tried having her go with him for car rides in the mornings. She just sits on the seat like a little statue, doesn't look out the window, doesn't wag her tail. Petrified I presume. Then, the minute they come inside the door, she practically jumps out of his arms and heads for her crate. Wouldn't you think after a while she would get that he isn't going to hurt her?

He is now the one who gives her her food. He doesn't try to pet her or anything, just bends down to put the bowl of food close. She is softly growling the whole time until he backs away.

Last night, we had a horrible thunder storm. It appears she is afraid of those too. We were all in the living room and the fear of the storm was greater than the fear of my husband. She came in, jumped up on the couch to be with me, who happened to have the beagle and the eskie up with me. She walks right over them as if they are not even there. She does this whether there is a storm or not. I think it's a mill behavior. Anyway, the other dogs don't seem to mind, they never snap or growl at her for it. But she gets up there with me. Across from me on the couch, is the coffee table, and then a reclyner where my husband was residing. I believe he was holding our poodle, Andre. Sasha, would not take her eyes off of my husband. But she didn't leave the room either.

I was hoping that the longer she stayed in the room, the more she would realize that my husband wasn't even coming near her, would not hurt her, etc. But, the minute the storm let up a little, down she went and over to her crate.

I know we should probably take her to a professional, but we don't have that kind of money to spare. And, I'm afraid like one of you wrote, the longer she stays like this, the harder it will be to break the cycle. But we haven't really tried the feeding idea that long. Only a couple of days where he has been the one to do that.

Another thing with her. She is terrified of a leash. She does not know how to walk on one. And we have the retractable and the regular kind of leashes. She's okay on the leash as long as she doesn't run to the end of it, or gets tangled up in it. If I have her outside, I sit out on the deck with her. Our deck has chicken wire around it so she can't get out, besides, I'm out there with her.

So, we were having her do things with my husband, but someone wrote and said that we shouldn't force her into doing things that she doesn't want to do. So I'm confused now. So, which is it, make situations to where my husband and her are alone together or just let her come around on her own?

If that last paragraph sounded like I'm angry, I didn't mean for it to. I appreciate all the input. I'm just frustrated with the situation. We have 3 other mill rescues and have never had this problem with any of them. They all love my husband. I can only imagine what this poor little dog must have gone through in her past :-(

 

I understand your frustration, really, and I know exactly what your saying. This is the problem though with everything being on the board and not actually being there to watch exactly whats going on. Some dogs can be put into slightly more 'forceful' situations than others and it works well for them, others need a lot more time but again its getting your responses to her to be right at the right time and in the right way...for her as an individual.

Does your husband wear glasses? Something Ive noticed with some fearful dogs is they are even more afraid when someone is wearing glasses, dogs watch the eyes and I think that some peoples glasses make the eyes look bigger than they are....imagine your a dog and you communicate by eye contact, small eyes are not as threateneing as large (or dilated) eyes are....just a thought.

Anyway, heres another idea, I understand the money situation, there are some good behaviourists around in LA (I dont know where you are but there might be some in your area) that just do a one off visit for a couple of hours. In LA they charged between $50-$100 for the visit but you do have to check their references. Another idea is are there any class training groups near you? The group classes are generally much less expensive and it should help your dog with her confidence level in general, it would expose her to more people....some puppy mill dogs can spend years being locked up and barely ever meet more than a handful of people. It would probably be better for both you and your husband to participate.

As for the leash problem, have you tried a harness? or would you like some info on how to get her used to a leash?