PLEASE HELP!! Dog is scared

I am at my wits end and I need some advice. I guess I should start at the beginning.

My boyfriend got Abby a pure breed GSD when she was about 2 months old. He got her from a neighbor. He had her for a little while but realized thatshe was very timid and seemed to be afraid of him. She would not come when called and would even hide in a corner. He did not have the time to really deidcate to her and train her so he gave her to a friend of his who has two other dogs. he figured she would have company and plenty of room to roam. Recently (about two months ago) his friend asked if we would take Abby back (she is about 10 months now) because it was getting too expensive to feed her and since we had gotten jazmin (5 month old GSD pup) a few months earlier she would have some company. We said sure no problem. Jaz and Abby had a few problems at first establishing their roles but now they just adore each other go nust playing. The problem is that Abby is still very shy and even scared of my BF she runs from him all the time. She will come to me but the minute i got to pet her (raise my hand) she runs and will only come and then imediately run away. She will not stay unless I am playing with jaz and then she will come over for some attention. She does not do this with my BF if he want to give her something or even approach her he needs to have her in a location where she cannot run. We currently have a hole in our fence that she fits threw and if she is not in the dog run and she happens to notice the hole she runs away. She eventually returns but it is definitely getting tough. The other day she ran when i went to the front door she was across the street . I called her and she came and sat at the front door but would not come in. I walked away to see if she would but she didnt. Eventually she went back in through the hole. Jazmin has begun to follow her if we are not paying attention. If we see her we say no and she stops in place and will not leave the back yard. Abby is a beautiful dog and we hate to have to get rid of her but we cannot afford to get the fence fixed right now and we hate to have her in the dog run all the time. We are building an addition to the house so having her inside is not really an option right now. We just want to get her comfortable with us so that we can actually get her to come to us so that we can even work on obedience training. Please help. What should we do? I have already posted an ad on petfinder trying to find her a home but if we can work with her than we would keep her. I would hate to take jaz's friend away

 

First of all, you need to stop her from getting out! Can you find something you can put in front of the hole in the fence so she can't go through? A piece of scrap wood or something? Fasten a large piece of cardboard (like from a big box) to the fence?

Shy dogs need some time and room to work things out. The best thing you can do is to be there for her and let her go at her own pace. Play with Jaz and when Abby comes over, don't act like there is anything different - just pet her and tell her she's a good girl. Always have treats with you (your BF, too) so she knows you are Something Good. Try to get down on her level by kneeling or sitting down (unless this freaks her out) and when she does approach, don't lean over her or reach over her head. Let her sniff you and you can reach under her head and scratch her chest. Don't push her and she will come around. Once she accepts you and your BF, you will need to start taking her other places, but each place is going to be a new step and you'll have to start all over with taking it slow and treating her for being calm, etc. Don't push her past the point where she panics or you will make it harder.

There are some good books in the Sticky at the top of this forum about shy dogs. My favorite is: "Help for Your Shy Dog: Turning Your Terrified Dog into a Terrific Pet" by Deborah Wood.

If Abby doesn't fear bite, count that as a huge bonus! She should come along nicely if you are patient with her. Try to manage her situation in the meantime, by blocking the hole in the fence, etc. Make sure when you do try obedience with her that you use POSITIVE methods. If you try to use force - even popping the collar and all that jazz - you will make things worse. In fact, something that may help her is clicker training! Get a good book on clicker training (check out the Sticky thread about books) and get going!

Other than that, time is your best bet. It took 6 months for my shy rescue to start coming out of her shell, and a whole year before she really started to be more confident.

 

I would say you need to build her confidence and work on socialization. This could be accomplished by taking her to some classes. Your body language could have alot to do with it and you just don't realize it. Taking classes will give you life long skills and a chance to bond with her.
Find an APDT certified trainer and check out the classes they offer.
http://www.apdt.com/
I consider myself a pretty dog wise person...but even I needed the eyes of an experienced trainer to point out some handling errors on my part and show me some language my dog was expressing that I just wasn't seeing. It has made all the diference in the world.

 

OOO I just thought of this too...Turid Rugaas is an amazing trainer/behaviorist. She has a book out that I loved and found really enlightening. It's called Calming Signals and there is a video that goes with it. She also has a web site where you can ask questions and she will answer you. You can go through others questions and the answers she provided as well. I use some of these calming signals on my dogs and they do work. Of course my dogs use them with each other all the time and it's very interesting to know what they are telling each other.

http://www.canis.no/rugaas/

 

you say you can't afford to fix the fence right now and having the dog inside is not an option.
What's more important the safety of your dog or spending $$ to get the fence repaired. If this dog gets hit by a car you'll be spending a lot more than the cost to fix the fence even if it's a temporary fix.
German Shepherds should not be left outside all the time - whether it's this pup or your other one. They need to be with their family. I'm hoping you mean outside when you aren't at home but inside when you are.
They both need quality time with you and your BF.

 

Thanks for the advice. You know, once she comes to us and we have her on a leash she does fine. We can take her for walks and everything and she does great. But when she is loose its almost as if she is teasing us.

 

You know sometimes I like this board and other times I hate when people climb upon their high horse and instead of giving advice they lecture you without having a clue about your entire situation. But sorry, not that it is your business bu the 255k we put into the house for the addition has left us without the 3k to fix the fence but thanks you to the the other posts that suggested the wood plank and that type of fix and actually gave advice and not preeched from upon their high horses. And once again since you assumed i should state that the only cars that drive on our street are ours so no she will not be getting hit anytime soon!!!! and I spend plenty of quality time with my dogs so please do not assume....you know what they say it makes!!!!!!!

 

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You have $255k to spend on an addition to your house but you aren't willing to make a minor repair to a fence for the safety of your dog? Do you really expect the dog to have the sense not to go through the hole? If the hole is there, the dog will go through it - any dog would. There are other dangers other than being hit by a car, but even then if she goes far enough eventually she'll find a road with cars. And what makes you think that you couldn't hit her with your car - dogs can dash in out of nowhere.

As far as Abby, why are you so eager to get rid of her? I understand you don't like her being timid - but how is that a reason to get rid of her? It certainly won't help her in the long run, I suspect she would be timid with anyone, especially if she gets tossed around so much. If she gets along great with your other dog, why would you want to separate them? You said you don't like how she acts when she gets loose - my dog would do the same thing - but I take every precaution to make sure that he doesn't get loose. He did once and it was the biggest pain in the blank trying to get him back in the house, he ran back and forth teasing me, but it was my fault he was loose so I couldn't get mad at him.

My guess is that she has picked up on the tension/stress/frustration you seem to feel towards her. Dogs know these things. I think things would go a lot better with her if you just eased up on her and worked with her doing fun things, giving her treats, etc.

 

Getting the good with the bad...or the polite advice with the blunt truth is part of the deal when you post on a public message board. Mary may have been blunt, but based on the information that was available in your post...it seems pretty accurate. If the fence is broken and the dog is getting out posing a danger to her life...the solution is to fix the fence..even if only temporarily.
It's hard when people ask for advice and you offer some and they then make excuses, deny, defend..anything but actually get out there and do what needs to be done. I AM NOT SAYING THIS IS WHAT YOU ARE DOING.

"And once again since you assumed i should state that the only cars that drive on our street are ours so no she will not be getting hit anytime soon!!!! "

Come on!...do you have a clue how far a dog can travel in a short amount of time? Aside form her getting hit..it's your responsiblity to keep her in your yard and out of others..out of harms way. There are a million ways she could cause trouble, either for herself or others. The point is, she should not be able to get out, period.

Try to overlook the blunt or what may seem harsh tones in a post and see the advice, not all of it will be of any value, but some may be worth it's weight in gold.

 

that was a typo that was 25k!!! not 255 plus we did not have it we took out plenty of loans!!!!

as for Abby we do not show her the fustration actually quite the opposite we sweet talk her, we get down to her level, we wait for her to come to us but nothing works she refuses to be handled at all.

I posted this seeking advice on how to treat a dog that refuses to come is very scared we are afraid will bite one of the kids if she feels threatned not to be attacked because we cant afford to fix a hole in a fence. Sorry if that sounds mean but I hate when people assuming you do not care about your pet or make judgement calls without knowing what we have and havent tried.

 

You are right you need to take the advice BUT you cannot accept anybody to take the accusations from know it all who dont really know but just assume. I asked for advice not a lecture on fence fixing 101!!!! The question was NOT should I fix the fence the question was how do you work with a dog that is very timid and does not repond well to men!!!! not what type of wood I should use to cover the hole. Because lets face it common sense is to fix the fence but that still wont fix the problem. After the fence is fixed she will stll be scared and she will still be timid and we will still not be able to approach her. shell just run around the yard in circles and not even come inside the house where our other dog is so please please tell me how is fixing the hole in the fence going to fix that. Especially since if you re-read my orginal post that was my original question.....

 

I not only answered your question but gave you resources to follow. However the biggest part of your attention is focussed on the critisism you recieved rather than the "How To" advice.
If you think she has the potential to bite out of fear than here is another resource for you. Cautious Canine by Patricia McConnell. This is a step by step guide on how to work with a fear aggressive dog. I have a fear aggressive dog..and we have been working with a trainer and this book, it's awesome! It's very important to have her evaluated by a professional and work with them to help your dog with this issue. Find an APDT certified trainer, and avoid like the plague anyone who uses anything but positive methods with this behavior issue. Aggression begets aggression.
http://www.apdt.com/

 

Maisey,

Thanks for the advice...i also made sure to post earlier and thank those that did give me advice and i did make note of everything that they said so that I can do what was suggested. But of course it is human nature to react when you feel attacked

 

You already have some really great advice here but for what its worth Ill put my 2 cents in.

Right now I have an extremely 'terrified' dog...to the point were she even bolted in the opposite direction when a butterfly came near her a week ago so I can relate to what your going through right now. Abby doesnt sound this bad, not if shes okay when she walking with you on a leash.

There are different techniques that work for different dogs and different trainers. Heres a couple of things I would try, as she is already walking on a leash I would strongly recommend obedience training, I think someone already mentioned that it will build up her confidence, desensitization will help (also someone mentioned I think). You really need to have a good trainer though that understands dog behaviour and will work to suit Abby's personality, some trainers are a little 'blinkered'....everything is done a set way with no actual adjustment to cater to the dog itself. Some dogs you need to be harder on, some you dont need to be, some you need to be extra sensitive. I cant say I agree with the 'collar snapping' making things worse, Ive used choke chains on every dog Ive trained whatever their personality, that doesnt mean Im literally choking them, the key is to get the dog to respond to the sound more than anything, a sensitive dog wont need much of a sound but enough to bring the focus to you and off whatever is around it that may make it feel uneasy/anxious.

As for getting Abby to come to you when not on a leash, this can take a long time, my dog right now, I brought her home in July and she only recently started to come to me when I call her, not the first time but her confidence is slowly improving. I had tried almost every trick in the book, I did some TTouch with her, it helped initially, I tried food, laying trails out, I tried ignoring her (not even looking in her direction at all) that helps, what worked best with her was a combination of food (she is definately NOT food driven and would rather starve than get too close to someone but I have discovered that she loves cheese so it was a start), every time I give her a piece of cheese I use a dog whistle, very softly so she is associating the cheese with the whistle...(the old Pavlov trick basically, the same method, consistency and repetition will condition her)..like I said though it takes time, what Im working towards is for her to actually come to me as soon as she hears the whistle (she also seems overly sensitive to voices so calling her makes her want to run in the opposite direction).

Dogs that are not restrained often dont want to come back.....imagine it, your running around having fun and someone 'yells' at you to come back...and then worse actually starts to run after you :shock: ....what do you want to do? you want to run to the person yelling at you or you think thats maybe not a good idea? dont get me wrong, Im not suggesting that you have ever yelled at Abby....but you dont have to, it may have been the person who had her in her first coupld of weeks of life....maybe he yelled at her, maybe he just yelled a lot in general, maybe he never yelled at all but just his prescence was intimidating to her and he never worked too well on socializing her, maybe it was the other person who had her, it doesnt have to be a yell leading to anything physical either just a yell in a loud negative tone is enough to scare the living daylights out of an average dog never mind a sensitive one....and it only has to happen one time.

Well, I dont know if any of this helps but keep us up to date if you can. I know you mentioned the money youve just spent so maybe obedience training isnt possible just yet but I have a link for an excellent obedience course available on video if your interested.

Good luck.

 

Thanks a bunch it does help. I agree i am not sure what her oringinal owners did but I am sure it was something. I have never seen a dog that does not want any human contact. I am sure that there are many but I have never come across them. I am taking Jaz to day care tomorrow and the owner of it does private training I think I am going to ask her for some help. I am also wondering if it is best to get a male trainer since it seems that she does not like men.

Do you think obedience training will work since she seems to be so afraid of people? I am wondering if she will have a bad reaction since the one offered in my town is in a group setting. I would hate to have her have a nervous attack.

 

Most dogs that Ive seen/worked with or had myself, they can often start off very shy towards people but the majority of them will come around in a short period of time...there are some though that do take a long time, I usually say if the dog hasnt at least started to show some positive interest within the first 2 weeks then its going to be long process. Without actually watching Abby its impossible to say what level her fear of people is, maybe if there is something in particular that she is responding to or shying from.

Id talk to the person your taking Jaz to, if she can also spend some time with Abby, even if its more of a 'consult visit' that might help, she may be able to pick up on some things that you may not be aware of and give you some advice or techniques to work with Abby, it could just be making sure the timing is right for you to ignore a behaviour, give some motivation, not pushing her but knowing exactly when to go a little further.

Im a firm believer in obedience training when done right as a great way to build up a dogs confidence. As to whether Abby would be better with a male trainer, that really depends on the trainer, some male trainers can come across as very intimidating especially to a shy female dog but a good trainer will adapt to the dogs personality and work accordingly.
There have been times that I have initially started working with a shy or submissive female, I like doing the first few lessons because your suddenly having the dog do something it may not be familiar with (walking to heel, sitting at the side of you when you stop walking...basically suddenly having to pay attention to you), so for a dog that is already lacking in confidence your going to have a short period where the confidence drops even further but then you (the trainer) really need to concentrate on building up the confidence in the dog, (it shouldnt take long). Like I said though, any good trainer, male or female will know how to get a shy dog through this.

As far as 'when' the obedience should start, there have been a couple of occasions were there has been a dog that we've 'put off' for a couple of months because of extreme fear of people, again I think someone who observe Abby would be able to give you better advice on that, there is such a thing as too much too soon but there is also leaving things too long, either way the dog can still be trained but it can make it harder for both the dog and trainer (this mostly applies to the very fearful dogs).

And I will mention one more thing, there are some dogs whos fear is so extreme that they might benefit from Clomicalm (I wont mention any other drugs as I havent used any in this context).
I dont 'like' using Clomicalm but will use it as a last resort, so far Ive used it on 3 dogs (out of at least 500 dogs) combined with the training. Clomicalm was marketed as a drug to ease seperation anxiety, personally I dont think it works very well for that and the dogs end up on it long term. When used in conjunction with training though, its a 4 week course and I have seen remarkable results, not just in the dogs that Ive used it on but in other dogs that Ive seen with other trainers. Ive also read a lot about studies done on it, case studies etc. It is very important though that its done under instruction from a vet and the trainer is familiar with it.

I dont think, from what you say that this would be neccessary for Abby, Im thinking that with the right guidance you can all get through this...again though Im not there and Clomicalm is a last resort option.

 

Something else to keep in mind is that our natural reaction when a dog is afraid is to get down and croon to it and coax it and otherwise act unnatural. To a dog, this is saying that there really IS something to be afraid of and you end up reinforcing the response. I have a timid dog and when she runs to me for some reason (usually a loud noise or unfamiliar object), I pretend I don't notice she is afraid and treat her like I would if she had just come to me for regular petting.

The not wanting to come to you sounds like a different issue than the shyness. One of my dogs LOVES to play keep away. It is her favorite game ever! Whether she has some forbidden object or just wants you to chase her, she thinks it's all a splendid game! It can be very frustrating.

I don't like choke collars or any kind of leash popping because it is telling the dog what NOT to do rather than what TO do. And since the dog starts out having no idea what you are asking them to do, they get nervous because they have no way of knowing when something they do is going to cause you to pop that leash. I would rather my dog be working to try to figure out how to get me to click and reward them rather than learning to be afraid to try ANYTHING that I haven't already shown them because they might get punished. Bonnie was obviously trained this way before we got her and it is very difficult to get her to offer behaviors because she is afraid she will be reprimanded. We have had her for a year and a half and she is just now starting to figure out that GOOD things happen when we are teaching her something.

Nala is a different dog and whereas she can stand negative things happening to her (she bounces right back) it really doesn't help at all. Using any kind of force on her makes her rebel and then everyone is escalating everything and it all gets ugly. Keeping things positive with her - or at the very most, withdrawing something she likes - is a much better way to get the job done without ruining our relationship.

And nanc76 - you should see OUR fence! We have all sorts of things propped up in all sorts of places to block off holes or places where the fence doesn't meet the ground, or whatnot.

 

This is exactly why I always say that when using a choke chain you need to know how to use it correctly. Same as if your using a prong collar.
What you describe here is not the response I get, the dogs know what to do....pay attention to me...and I dont recall ever actually making any dog nervous in training, their confidence level comes up pretty quick (except the first Pekinese I ever worked with but that wasnt with a choke chain).

Everyones different though, different trainers, different methods, what works for one may not work for another.

 

Jamiya

I agree with your thoughts. At first I thought she was playing because she seems to be so happy when she is running around the yard making us come after us. I thought to mysef that it almost looked as if she was laughing at me :lol:

But then i though that it couldnt be since she id it every single time. Our biggest problem is the fact that we cannot get her to come to us or even approach her without her running. I spoke to the trainer and she said that a group situation might help because she will be able to interact with many different adults.

 

jamiya

I almost forgot about the fence. I ended up having a pallet from the floor tiles we bought and it fit perfectly over the hole.