2 dogs, 2 questions

Oh, maybe you guys can help me I have 2 dogs and totally seperate questions. Ok first dog she is 2 and a golden retriever, she is very well behaved, I walk her about every other day of the week and sometimes she spends the night with me, bc her mom works about an hour away, I think her mom and her have a really good relationship, the way she talks to the dog and the dog responds, I have never once had to say, come sit stay, more than once, she is really good! But when ever we start walking she bites on the leash and shakes it around, I have tried distracting her, which works, but then she goes right back to it, making her sit and wait til she is calm, she doesn'T do this the whole time we walk, just the first few minutes. Her mom has tried bitter apple on the leash and doesn'T help at all, what can be done about this. I wonder sometimes if it has to do with her collar, it isn'T a choke collar but a normal looking collar with a small "choking" piece, I don'T know how to describe it, hopefully someone knows what I mean. What do you guys think? Is it the collar and she feels someone is grabbing her scruff and that is wh she reacts like that?
Ok so the next dog, is a white German Shephard and is 1.5 (and is really big) It s staying the night with me next week. And the mother was just so weird, she said not to leave the dog outside alone because it can jump over 6' fences and it often times runs away, it doesn'T respond to its name or any commands. I asked her if she had any formal training she said yes, the dog is too easily distracted and so it will never work, she said "when she gets older she will be much better behaved, she is a really smart dog, they say German Shephards are trainable" so I feel like she has given up on her dog and I feel sorrry for it bc this lady can not control this huge dog. And she said many times, it is a rare type (it is white) and worth alot of money, people try to steal her all the time, and she is Amrican, but only teaches it german commands, so I really honestly think she has it bc it is cool or expensive or something. Does anyone know a subtle way to suggest her going back and getting more training? I know dogs are bit crazy and do calm down when they are older, but if you never work with them they won't be good. And this lady is convinced you must beat your dog to be a good dog, and she doesn'T beat her dog and that is why it acts crazy. Well I guess maybe that was more of a complaint of bad owners, not knowing how to actually care for animals. I am sure she loves this dog, but she needs to take the time to train it and not just assume when she is older she will be calm and then she will listen. Sorry for babbling, it just really bugs me!
I guess Luther, and the 2 goldens I walk with have spoiled me!

 

We have a dog that tugs on the leash sometimes on walks, it's more of a release for their drive and tension than trying to get rid of their collar (dogs that are fighting a collar tend to be far more frantic about it, and use their feet/whole bodies), at least in her case. She's a very mouthy dog to begin with, and since she cannot mouth clothes of people she meets out in public, she tends to hold it in until we're about 20 ft away, then dives for the leash and either carries it or tries to engage me in a game of tug. Since you say this dog only grabs the leash when you start walking, I'd bet it's excitement from getting to go for a walk.

Two things I would try....
First, you can substitute a small toy in for the leash when you see her ready to grab it. If I remember to bring a toy for Haley, when I see her getting excited, I say "here" and offer the toy, and she'll snatch it right up, no problems with her grabbing the leash as long as the toy's in her mouth.
If she doesn't go for the toy thing, next time you take her for a walk, bring an extra leash. When she grabs the first leash, just snap on the second and continue your walk. If she's doing this to try and manipulate you and where you go, or even just to try and get you to play, she'll probably let go of the leash once she realizes she can't because you have another leash on her. Once you've done this for a few walks, they usually let up on the leash grabbing.

The GSD thing is harder, since the owner appears very set against training her dog. From another of your posts, I take it you're in Germany? I can see then why she would be hesitant to take her to dog training then, as compulsion (correction) training is one of the more favored methods of many training places there, and many pet owners are trying to get away from those methods of teaching because they find them too harsh. Could you maybe print out some info on positive teaching methods, and give it to her to see if she's perceptive to the idea? Or if you don't want to do that/don't think she'll believe it anyway, maybe teach the dog a basic command using positive training, then show it to her and explain how you taught it, and how much fun it was for both you and the dog to learn it. Then if she's interested, give her some material on positive training to read.

 

This grabbing the leash business is very common in pups (they almost all do it) and they usually outgrow it pretty quickly. But a 2 year old is a bit old to still be doing it. I would guess that, being a Golden, which is a retriever, grabbing the leash is "sort of" like retrieving. Comes naturally to them. Since the dog only does it at the beginning of walks, it sounds as if there is excess energy, and the dog is excited about going on a walk. I think it'll wear off. Besides, it sounds as if the dog is nowhere near out of control. Not a major issue. You are dealing with it well, from what I gather.

About the German Shepherd - first of all, white IS NOT RARE! Rather, its highly undesirable, to the point that ethical breeders will euthanize a white pup at birth. Its not something to be proud of, and they are NOT expensive because of this fact. In fact, they aren't worth much at all because Shepherds are NOT SUPPOSED to be white! Not any more than a Dobie should be white. Its a very undesirable throwback. This lady probably paid a lot for this dog, and I don't doubt the breeders told her it was "rare." She really got taken. She should have done her homework! White Shepherds also often have health problems that are linked to their color. They are not a good risk at all as a pet, or anything else. That said. . .

German Shepherds are very slow to mature. I used to breed them many years ago. They take, on average, about 3 years to act like a mature dog. They are very much puppies up until then. Not that they can't learn (they excell in obedience!) but some of them need a firmer hand than a lot of other breeds. A lot of this is due to intelligence - they have been rated as one of, if not the most intelligent breed. This is demonstated in the fact that they alone are used as police, seeing-eye, rescue, drug sniffing and guard dogs. No other breed has this many abilities. Other breeds have been tried as seeing-eye dogs, but most were subsequently dropped because they can't compare to Shepherds. Don't let ANYONE tell you German Shepherds are not trainable! Their intelligence cannot be surpassed, in my opinion. But. . . their energy has to be harnessed and strong corrections are sometimes needed. They can and will outsmart you if they see you are weak in your convictions. The collar you mentioned is called a half-check, or is also sometimes referred to as a martingale collar. Its mostly nylon with a short length of chain. I love these collars, and its all I use on my dogs.

A lot of people believe a dog will be "ruined" if it is obedience trained. Just the opposite is true. Sounds as if this lady might not be motivated enough to get her dog trained. She may be too lazy to do anything about it. But a dog as intelligent as a Shepherd must have training, or he will certainly take advantage.

Randi

 

Thanks you guys!

 

I just have one small suggestion about the "leash biter" I hate choke collars of any kind personal opinion but anyway you should look into a gentle leader it has a strap that goes over the top of the muzzle it's not a muzzle and it dosn't hurt at all they work wonders and it would also make it diffucult for her to get hold of the leash

 

Yea I suggested that to the dogs mom and she said she had one and I could try it if I wanted, but she didn'T care for it that much. But after last night and yesterday, I would take 100 dogs with the leash biting problem. I am so miserable and tense with this other dog, and it makes the other 2 uncomfortable. I couldn'T leave my house yesterday (except for walks with her, no one else got a walk) for fear of what this dog would do. She gets things out of cabinets! She is finding things I never know I had and chewing them! Speaking of chewing, she has eaten/ broken open all the other dogs toys, they both seem so sad. She keeps my dog in her mouth. I try to keep them seperated but unless I constantly keep her on her leash, she scratches the doors (now I have slash marks on most of my doors) She also opens doors and her mom said she can get out of fences, so I am terrified that she will open up the front door and take off, so I feel like she has to be kept on a leash and she never calms down she is always panting and going nuts, it drives me nuts! (which is why I sometimes let go of the leash because I can'T take it) I have a tension headache now because of this every muscle in my body feels tense, because she won't calm down, my teeth have been clenched for so long, that my mouth hurts and I worry my teeth will fall out. I couldn't sleep at all last night. I try to keep her seperated froom the other dogs (because they hate her so much) and thinking maybe that will help and calm her down, no it doesn'T I put her with them. I tried to figure out something and I did the measnest thing I have ever done to a dog, because I couldn't take it anymore. The other dogs kept hiding under and behind me (one not so bad, only 20 lbs, theother a bit harder, she is about 60lbs.) As soon as "whitey" (not really her name) leaves the room the other 2 jump up and start playing, but when she comes back the cower back under me. So anyway back to the mean thing I did, I tied her to a radiator, so that she couldn't get to a door to go anywhere for about 2 hours. The other dogs were happy and played the whole time, my cat came back home (after the dog scared it away) and she actually seemed calm after a while of being alone and I would check on her through the keyhole and she seemed to do fine, but then when she realized I was looking at her she would go nuts panting again! Does anyone have suggestion how to calm this dog down? My fi, now after not sleeping all night bc of her panting and ppacing and chewing (then puking) seems to think she is just retarded! (I think she is just a huge puppy, so that makes her hard to control) Oh I am going nuts. I need to calm down. I am supposed to go ring shopping today, but I am afraid to go bc she might get into something!

 

Forgot to mention last post that it's also good to teach them a command to let go of anything they have in their mouth. I use this anytime our girl grabs the leash when I don't want her having it, "Off!", and she spits it right out. It can take a bit to teach it, but the results are worth it. I taught her by giving her a toy, then pulling a treat out of my pocket and telling her "off!", giving her the treat when she dropped the toy, then giving her back the toy and playing a bit more before repeating. We did this several times a day, and before long she was spitting it out immediately when told, then I started weaning her off the treats, but still letting her play with the toy again most of the time after taking it (this so the dog doesn't think that being told to "off" is the end of playtime).

And to derail the thread a bit (sorry)...

While head halters work great for some dogs, for some dogs they are more aversive than a properly used correction collar (I have a dog that tried to dig her face off while walking with a halti, even after being properly acclimated to it, but has absolutely no problem with a prong collar being used on her... different dogs need different methods and tools). There is a risk of injury with any misused collar, and I see a lot of people misusing head halters because they're under the mindset that they can't hurt a dog. They're all tools, and even the best tool in the world won't make a difference if you have a bad operator. Likewise, different people like different tools, and may even use different tools depending on what their goal is and material (in this case the dog) is.

 

I hate to say it because I am generally against it, but it sounds like this dog may benefit from medication, at least temporarily. Have you tried any of those plug-in things that are supposed to calm a dog down?

 

what do you mean plug in things? Like an eletronic device? I just feel really bad for this dog. It just won'T calm down. My fi thinks this dog won'T live very long because it is always so excited! He thinks it will have a heart attack, so that worries me even more!

 

This is the plug-in thing. I have heard it helps some dogs and does nothing for others. I suppose it could even make things worse for some dogs. PetsMart and other pet stores carry these things.

 

After reading your additional posts, I've come to the conclusion that you must have one of those high energy Shepherds that can test anyone's patience to the limit. I've had a couple of them. They are hyper and never seem to stop pacing, panting, etc. They can also be extremely destructive. Remember, German Shepherds are a working breed, meaning they need a job. Chances are this dog doesn't have enough things to do to keep her occupied. These kinds of dogs need PLENTY of exercise, chasing balls, etc. These dogs are bred to serve, and when they can't do that, they are uneasy and unsettled and can't calm down. She would be a great dog to take to an obedience course. In short, she needs a hard workout every day. She won't be happy otherwise. They do get more calm with maturity, but I think its going to be at least a year or two before that happens with her. Make every effort to entertain and exercise her and she will be a better dog for it. Remember, its not her fault that she's high strung and hyper. Its just her temperament and she shouldn't be punished for it. Rather, reward her when she's calm and quiet, even if only for a few seconds.

Randi

 

Yea, One thing I thought about while she was here was she needs to do some sort of herding trainig. I think she isn't happy bc she doesn't know what to do with her self. But she is gone now! (from me) Oh yea, her owners live in an apartment so I am pretty sure she doesn'T get that time to run and be free, bc they fear she will run away. Oh well Thanks!

 

Do German Shepherds herd? I thought they were sheep guardians, not herders.

Some people advocate a more "natural" form of exercise for dogs, rather than endless games of fetch - like being loose and exploring and sniffing and stuff. Some people even say the "games" we invent are for us and the dog doesn't enjoy them as much as we think they do.

I think dogs do enjoy the games we play with them, especially if they are games the dog "invented" or initiated. And they also like to explore on their own (in a safe place). And ones bred for a specific job like to do their jobs. That's pretty much my tactic with Nala - to let her have some of each kind of interaction. Agility, obedience, herding, games, walks, off-leash time at different parks, etc.

 

German shepherds most definetely herd...my parents German shepherd used to herd kids, bikes, really anything when he was a puppy, luckily he discovered frisbees and he was broken of herding inappropriate things. I just thought of something though that sent off a lightbulb when reading how the shepherd acted at your house. My parents german shepherd is very attached to his family, as most are, and one time we had to go out of town and my boyfriend volunteered to keep Ranger instead of having him go to the kennel, which he hated and had panic attacks about going. So he went to my boyfriend's house and when we came home, he was at our house. My boyfriend said he had to bring him home to watch him because he was so agitated staying at his house that it was driving him crazy, he constantly paced, panted, went to the door, and when my boyfriend would leave the house he wouldn;t stop barking, which is really out of character for him. This dog usually lays around the house watching everyone as they go by, and rarely barks. So as soon as he took Ranger home, he calmed back down. Maybe the shepherd was just homesick But I would agree, they do need a job, and constant attention, they aren't dogs that do well entertaining themselves. They're happy when they know they're pleasing you.

 

Are you a dog walker? Perhaps she needs to find someone else to watch her dog, this dog seems to be destroying your house and the other dogs can't get the attention they need. You sound like you have a huge heart and want to help all but, if the owner doesn't care about what this dog needs i don't see how much more you can do to help. Good luck! You got some great advise here and I hope the owner will listen to it.

Susan

 

I walk 2 dogs in the week(one lab, one retriever, not the white GSD), both people are friends of friends, that know I need some extra money and I am bored and love dogs ( and I need more excercise) so normally I hang out with just these 2, but the one dogs mom goes out of the country for a day here or there for work, so she comes to stay the night with me. But this white dog was a collegue of the dogs mom and they were going to the same business meeting, so that is why I had it.
I have heard both about the shepherds being the herders and being the guardian, éither way, I think this dog needs something to unleash its hidden talents. I do think it wasn't so much a matter of homesickness, I think maybe a little, but when Itold them about how she panted so much, they just said oh yea that is why we keep extra water out. I think this dog was panting from anxiety, from not knowing what to do with itself (especially if it does it at its home too) not from being thirsty.