A.D.H.D.DOES IT EXIST 4 DOGS

OKAY, PLEASE TELL ME CAN DOGS HAVE THIS? CAUSE OSO WHO IS NOW ABOUT 14mos SHOWS SIGNS OF IT. HE WASNT LIKE THIS WHEN HE WAS YOUNGER. HES BEEN THROUGH THE FIRST CLASS AT PET SMART AND HAS DONE REALLY WELL,BUT NOW IS IN THE ADVANCED CLASS AND WILL NOT P[AY ATTENTION. ITS GOTTEN TO THE POINT WHERE I HAVE TO LEAVE THE RING 4 A SEC.ITS PRETTY EMBARASSING WHEN ALL OTHER DOGS R SITTING NICE AND OSO'S ACTING LIKE HE HAS NO TRAINING. AND HE CONSTANTLY PULLS(AND HE'S SOO STRONG)
ANY ADVICE?

 

Interesting. I havent heard any vets suggesting it but I'll do a little research on it. I will say that in kids its very often things like certain food additives that cause it, probably more so than a chemical imbalance as a lot of kids problems are solved by changine diet (had this problem on a minor level with my daughter when she was younger) theres a coiuple of posters that I know will have more knowledge on food additives for dogs than I have, maybe they could help a little more...Jamiya, think this ones for you )

There are some other things that come to mind though, how long since finishing the last class? If its not too long then maybe hes burnt out, Is he neutered?

From my experience with Petsmart trained dogs that weve had in to retrain (they use food, at least the ones near were I lived) food is great for a lot of dogs but there will always be some dogs that are not too interested in the food, not saying this is Oso, just something to consider. If hes not neutered yet he's at the age where his testosterone levels are going to be making him a little '....anxious'. Im working with a dog thats about 16 months old, he is neutered but hes just starting to really try and assert his dominance, a lot of the training is a 'battle of wills' nature tells him to be the 'top dog' (especially as Im a female) and Im telling him 'hes got no chance becuase I am', he was playing up a little, I know that he knows what certain commands mean but hes a little frustrated. It takes a lot of repetitiveness, consistency...'say what you mean and mean what you say'...meaning if he plays up and you 'let him' get away with it just once, youve 'taught' him that he doesnt have to do what you want unless he feels like it, if you tell him to sit and he doesnt, you persevere until he does sit, dont play with him, dont go onto to something else..."he has to sit before the next step"...even if he only sits for a second...as long as he sits.
Its hard for me to say what the cause is without seeing him but I dont see any reason why you shouldnt discuss this with the trainer at Petsmart and find a solution, if she or he is not capable of training your dog or not prepared to make some suggestions and work towards getting both yourself and Oso on track then maybe they should reimburse you and find another trainer.

Im leaning more towards problems in the way the training is being done, taking into account his age now and natural dog behaviour at this age. Even if he is neutered he is still capable of showing dominant traits, its usually easier to work with them if they are neutered....

 

Yeah Val has this, so I'd have to say dogs can have it, she has it.

 

How do you deal with it? Is there something in the food or another specific external cause or do you think its more of an...intrinsic issue?

Ive had a number of dogs in training that have a 'limited' concentration span, Ive never thoguht of ADHD or ADD and theyve all passed the course, its taken more work (and usually involves a little more frustration for all involved). We had one dog in last year that a couple of people, including the owners had said she had ADHD, she had been through 2 previous trainers, same problem both times, lack of concentration, after a few days of working with her I was thinking maybe she did have some kind of mental retardation but I watched her closely, her body language, when she did or didnt respond, turned out she was at least partially deaf in her right ear if not completely and her eyesight was bad, she seemed to be able to see well enough close up but move about 10 feet away from her and it seemed as though she couldnt see well at all, she did great with the use of a dog whistle and hand signals.

 

I didn't real deal with it, I mean I don't treat her different then any of my other dogs. I don't know that she really has it, but everyone, we always used to joke about it. As she got older it kind of went away (some) she still has her moments, like she will be laying there fine and calm then all of the sudden jump up, I just tell her no and get something else to gain her attention like petting her or being more stern with a "No Val" and soemtimes it doesn't always work or there wasn't enough time. I had her outside and Sasntana outside, Val was on a chain and Santana was in a pen they started arguing and I told to knock it off but Santana was very upset and she's never really been in a kennel so I was just going to bring her in and move Val. They didn't want to stop, I first grabbed Val and carried her inside, as soon as she hit the floor inside she took off running I told her No Stop and she stopped a second and looked at me, then she just ran through the house somemore picked up a ball jump on/over the couch then into the front door (the inside door was open so she hit the glass door). I yelled at her something like What do you think you're doing, then she dropped the ball and just looked at me like Um I don't know what happened, its like she gets possessed and blacks out. Then I told her to get in the crate which was on the otherside of the room and she went in. It was so much worse when she was a puppy and half the time she would act deaf. She would take off running jump on the recliner, look over the back, jump from the recliner to the couch, jump off that run into walls and open cabinet doors, act crazy when chasing balls and slide all over the floor. I'm glad she is much calmer now but everyonce in awhile her wildside takes over, I think just giving her more "love" has kind of helped, like talking to her, petting her, rubbing her belly because when I talk to her if she is barking at another dog (like at a show) or if she gets up to do her run, I can just talk to her and bring her attention to me and she knows that she will get praise and attention and I can get down to her level and pet her it works really great at a show. She used to not only bark at the other dogs but also couldn't hold a stack for long she would be took easily distracted half the time she would see something else and move and everything but now she wants my attention and praise so she does much better she is like the perfect dog to show now. Santana is still a hellraiser and Venom only sometimes gets out of line at the shows.

 

good reading subject

http://www.pethealthcare.net/html/body_ ... _dogs.html

 

Interesting article. So its safe to say that while ADHD does exist in dogs its probably not common?

As an additional note (OT...kind of) Im always interested in reading about how some people say choke chains are useless, this one says you wont get the desired result with one, I can say that every dog Ive ever trained has started with a choke chain (Im now switching some to martingales after the first few days), I know quite a few excellent trainers that have always used them, they do get the desired result...when the right type, size, weight and technique is used, in fact they get better results on every breed or mixed breed than any other method Ive either tried or watched/looked into. None of my own dogs, or people I still know whos dogs I trained years ago have ever come down with tracheal or neck problems from them being used, not even the smaller breeds. But I will say that I have seen people using them incorrectly, using 'cheap' ones, Im very picky about the make that I use (only use Sprengers) and I have to admit that I cringe whenever I see these large link chains, they can do damage and are not necessary (in my opinion). As for the haltis, I like them a lot, Ive never heard any comments about the pressure points before, Ive always thought of it more basic than that (again just my opinion) dogs dont have the strength in the head that they have in the shoulders.

Thnaks for posting that.

 

Training:

Well, I may get some negative feedback on this but I was taught to train using "prog collars" I attach them to a choke just in case they break off.


Halties I have had BAD luck with. My dogs hate to wear them (ESPECIALLY CAIRO) and roll over trying to get them off. Even shelter dogs I have had bad luck using halities. One of my early mentors had her dobies disc displaced while using a haltie. I don't remember the entire story it was a long time ago, but we all started our training classes with halties. I was the only one in the 20 group class using a prong because me dog Cairo could not stand a haltie.

By round two, she had switched back to traditional training and everyone had prong collars for training purposes. When I asked her why? She said that her dog ended up having disc surgery because of the haltie.

I never ever used them again.



I always begin training by using a traditional leather collar. If that does not work, I use a choke collar, for heavy pullers, I use a prong.

Of course, with puppies and young dogs I always tell them to either buy a harness or a leather collar. This seems to work well.


I always use positive correction and reward and have had great success using treats and my squeaky voice and the prong collar. Remembering that I train shelter pit bulls with little or no training at all.

At home, all of my dogs have "Martingales" I just love them, As soon as the dogs get the desired behavior I demand, I switch off to a martingale.

My own dogs have martingales with doggie jewelry attached!

I say as long as the dog is enjoying the training and you are getting positive results go for it.


Sue

 

Well, I also have used the choke collars for years, and always gotten the desired results, and pretty quickly too. Never had a dog be injured by one (that I'm aware of), either. I do use the larger links...they actually have less potential for doing damage than you'd expect. It's like the difference between a narrow handle on your bucket of water and a wide one. The pressure is distributed over a larger area.

On the other hand, I did try a prong collar on one particular dog that I really didn't think needed it, but the teacher at our obedience class thought she might respond well to it. She responded alright. She hit the floor and went belly up after the first correction. It took me two weeks to get her back to the place we started from.

Then, while I was working as a vet tech, I assisted in a post mortem on a sheltie who had died unexpectedly after the same trainer used a prong collar on him. When I saw the damage to the internal structures of that dog's neck, I swore I'd never use one again, and quite frankly it wouldn't bother me one bit if the outlawed their use.

 

By reading Delauk's posts for quite some time now, I think it is quite obvious to say that she really is a very good dog trainer. :lol:


I think it is safe to say again, as long as the dog is enjoying the training session, as well as learning from it, than go with whatever works for that particular dog. Each dog is different in his/her training needs.

I always start with a leather collar. Again, I have had great success using prong collars (when I feel they are necessary)

I also have been working with dogs for a very long time and have an understanding how to use them properly.

As soon as the dog is able, I switch to a martingale. (just because I like them)

Obviously, I would not give a correction with as much force as you are describing.

The problem with correction devices are the people using them.

You must have a general understanding of what you are doing with a prong as well as a choker collar.


Working with shelter dogs with little to no training for 11 years, I think I am qualified to call myself experienced with correction devices. I also own 6 dogs 5 of them are pit bulls. All had no training before I adopted them.


I don't know if anyone has ever heard of
http://www.leerburg.com/
but over the years, I have bought many of these great video's. I must say they are very good and I learned quite a lot of knowledge from them.
Anyone wishing to learn about obedience training, I would highly suggest his video's .

On this web site, there is a site about the proper usage and fit of prong collars. It is very informative.

Sue

 

Thankyou Sue, the feeling is mutual. And I enjoy reading your posts.

I used to hate prong collars, I didnt have any experience with 'hands on' for a long time and when Id seen them used, well knowing what I know now, the people using them were not using them correctly. I learned how to use them correctly, when its more beneficial to use them, as Ive said before Ive only ever used them a couple of times but never even so much as slight wimper from a dog with one on. (Remember the Akita I told you about? It worked like a dream for that dog, I had a recent update in her and she is still doing great, a year out from trainng)
The techniques that you use, for the most part sound very similar to the ones I use, the toys, the squeeky voices, puppy noises (Ive had some very strange looks from people over the years but hey...whatever works yeah. Some people hear about you using a choke chain and have this image of a dog being dragged around, Ive heard comments like "the old jerk and pull method", the trainer I worked for in California (my mentor and his wife, also an excellent trainer) did in home training, it cant be that bad when the owners of the dog are watching everything, some will cry when they see that there dog who, for example, had previously been over excitable, jumped up on everyone, wouldnt come back when called etc and by the end of the first 1 hour lesson that same dog is walking to heel and automatically sitting.
Training rescues in a shelter situation, (and I think youll agree with this Sue) this is not the same as training a dog that lives in a home with a family, you have a dog that is shut up in a cage for the best part of the day, sometimes the only time they get out is for a training session so before you even start you have to work through getting the dog to calm down, or you have the opposite where dogs are scared of everything outside the safety of their cage, to say nothng of whats happened to them in the past, often its abuse or living on the streets with very little if any human contact.
THe training always begins with a regular collar, with older dogs I give them one short lesson with a regular collar, no corrections, just positive reinforcement and a lot of motivation, with the small pups, depending of if theyve been on a leash before I can spend a couple of days just getting them used to the leash with a regular collar.

The haltis, I do love them but some dogs really will object to them, I would never put one on a dog that has any kind of spinal problem and Im careful with smaller dogs in general, Ive seen a few people using them and they seem to 'forget' that they have one on the dog and the dogs head is pulled up, cant be good for the neck, I mostly use them on strong pullers, my mom has arthritis, her dog SHeba was well trained but even moving away from her if she put slight tension on the leash it was painful for my mom, once she started using the halti Sheba was always on a 'loose leash' and it solved the problem. I have to admit when some dogs that object to the halti Ive got a little nervous, knowing what the out of control struggle, the twisting around etc can do to their spines, but its like any training tool you use, if its done correctly it there shouldnt be a problem.
Ive heard many people say that all dogs can be trained with food, I think training with food is a great idea for some dogs, some dogs will dance on their head and do sommersaults for a tiny piece of food and thats great but what about the non food driven dogs, what about the aggressive dogs who would sooner have a piece of someone than a little piece of food, dogs with a high prey drive, would they be happy with a little piece of food from you or would they have much more 'fun' chasing the cat across the street. (They are very often the dogs that weve had in for training....the ones whos owners were told all dogs can be trained with food)
Shock collars I detest, Ive seen more damage to necks with these than any other training tool, at the last hospital I worked at we always knew ahead of time when the guy that comes to the desert to do the Snake Aversion training and would stock up on ice packs and anti inflammatories, would I use one? If I was doing snake aversion training yes, if I was training hard core gaurd dogs, yes....snake aversion Ive never done and I dont want to but I think if you live in a heavily populated snake area with some of the more deadly snakes it would be worth using a shock collar for that one lesson to teach them to stay away from snakes that could leave them dead within a few hours or less. Gaurd dogs, I can live without training them but Ive seen some of the most aggressive out there trained for protection and attack work, it takes a certain kind of personality in a dog for this (Im talking about dogs trained for the military etc), they are tough dogs and part of the training is to increase the aggressiveness and control it, I can live without working in that field.
Every dog is different and you adapt to each one.

 

Of course everyone has their own experience and each dog is different. And for the most part my I've always operated by the "If it works don't fix it" rule of thumb.

But I have to add, I've been training for over 40 years. I even managed to get a "High in Trial" on a bull terrier. I think I know how much force to use with any sort of collar. And I stand by my belief that prong collars can do a lot of damage without the handler being aware of what they're doing.


Back in the day, the most popular methods of training were "string 'em up" and "whup on 'em". And it worked, too, after a fashion. At least the dogs did what they were supposed to, or didn't do what they weren't supposed to. They usually weren't too happy about it, though. Thank God someone decided that needed to be fixed, although even then I didn't believe in those methods, nor did I ever use them.

The trainers I've studied under through the years are some of the most successful and widely respected people in the field. The one particular trainer who used the prong collar on the sheltie certainly knows what she's doing and how much force to use with a collar, even a prong collar. In spite of the fact that we were pretty much sold a bill of goods that "It just creates a different sensation. It doesn't hurt them or cause any damage". I, for one, can attest to the fact that they CAN cause damage, and you don't have to use all that much force to do damage, either.

At this point in time, any fool with a wad of money can walk into a pet store and buy a prong collar, without any inkling of how to use one. Some people buy them simply because they think it makes their dog look tough, dangerous, or hard to handle. And that's why it wouldn't bother me a bit if they'd outlaw their use. Being a realist, I know that's not going to happen, but it would be nice if they were regulated to use by certified trainers only. And I know that's not going to happen either. But I can dream.

 

I agree with you shine, prong collars, choke chains even regular collars can cause damage when the person at the other end of the leash doesnt know how to 'use' the collar properly. As for banning them, they already banned choke chains in Austria just last year and more and more people in Europe are now looking at them as a bad thing because of it.
Whats your opinion on Martinglales?

 

"Training rescues in a shelter situation, (and I think you’ll agree with this Sue) this is not the same as training a dog that lives in a home with a family, you have a dog that is shut up in a cage for the best part of the day, sometimes the only time they get out is for a training session so before you even start you have to work through getting the dog to calm down, or you have the opposite where dogs are scared of everything outside the safety of their cage, to say nothing of whets happened to them in the past, often its abuse or living on the streets with very little if any human contact.
The training always begins with a regular collar, with older dogs I give them one short lesson with a regular collar, no corrections, just positive reinforcement and a lot of motivation, with the small pups, depending of if they’ve been on a leash before I can spend a couple of days just getting them used to the leash with a regular collar".

Well Deluk, You are 100 percent correct. Training shelter dogs is different all together. You also have a goal to get the dog trained as soon as possible to make the dogs odds better of getting a home. No easy task.
I hate shock collars and never use them. It really does sound like we have many of the same training methods. *** PS New ideas are always welcome from you!!!
I have not been obedience-training dogs for 40 years; I am only 42 years old. But, I have trained under great mentors and feel I do know what I am doing. I try to train shelter dogs towards a goal of obtaining their CGC (Canine Good Citizenship Certificate) I don't title dogs because my main concerns are helping shelter dogs get adopted. My clients are usually people that have adopted shelter dogs and need to work out quirks. My goal at that point is to help them obedience train the dog to keep it from coming back into the shelter.

Well, what do you think about starting the obedience training thread? Deluk,
You can go first.
Problems I always get asked? My dog does not walk well on a leash can you help me to stop the pulling? My dog bolts out of the front door all the time, can you help?
How do I get my dog to stop jumping? How do I get my dog to come?
ETC....

PS: Deluk, my daughter Cassondra started her job as a "Pet Nurse" a few weeks ago, she is a little overwhelmed but loves it and is doing well.
She has not had to assist with euthanizing animals yet. I hope that does not make her hate her job when she finally has to assist with that.
She has a ton of books to study. She said she feels stupid because a few of the other techs have gone to Tufts University. But she will learn.
She is very motivated and loves animals. She shall do fine.
Sue