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A few questions

Discussion in 'Dogs - Pit bull breeds specific' started by Clipsed405, Apr 28, 2004.

  1. Clipsed405

    Clipsed405 New Member

    Hi, names David. Im new here and i had a few questions about APBTs. I just recently bought my first house, and can't take my dog there. He's never been found of going up stairs so hes staying at my parents. I want to get 2 new pups to take there with me and i've heard allot about pitts, good and bad. My friends father down the street had to of had like 20 pitts and they where all super good dogs and my g/f also loves pitts. I've been looking at a few breeds but i really have my heart set on getting "blue" pitts. I've found a few places selling razor's edge/greyline pitts for about 2g for 2. I want to get two males because i don't want them to breed (not knowlidgable enough to deal with that yet) neway, will i have any problems with these two dealing with each other? What kind of food should i feed them? I love pets and money is no factor, I don't spare any expense in caring for my animals. Any advice/input would be really helpful. I want to make a good decision for me and the dogs.
     
  2. bullylove1

    bullylove1 New Member

    Clipsed405:
    Hi, glad you have decided on such a wonderful breed of dog! Unfortunately, it is almost golden rule that it is better (for any breed not just pits) to have the opposite sex. You should be getting them spayed/neutured at 6 months anyways so breeding shouldn't be a problem then. Also, I don't know much about bloodlines, others on here will give you lots of good advice on that, but I do know that you should neer get a pup based on color. When dogs are bred purely for color, other defects can arise.

    I personally switched Harley's food over to Nutro Natural Choice Ultra, she was on a different Natural Choice before and I loved it! The new Ultra brand that has just come out is all natural ingredients and contains chicken, lamb, and salmon in it.

    I don't have 2 dogs, but you will be told over and over again, when your dogs are alone, they should never be left together. You should either learn to crate them seperately, or leave each in a seperate room. If a fight were to break out and you were not around for a couple of hours, the damage could be deadly. Crate training is relatively easy if you start right away. There are online trainers that can help you. You can sign up at www.doggiedoor.com, and they have great info and tips on crating. Also, if you decide to sperate them by rooms, make sure they can't hear each other to clearly, and puppy proof the room. VERY important.

    APBT's are pretty high energy dogs, and need lots of excersice. At least mine does. If she doesn't get out at least 90-120 mins. a day, she is ruthless with our persian rug. ;) A tired puppy is a happy puppy, so if like me, you work days and the dog has to be left for a couple of hours, excercise in the morning is essential.

    I am sure others will have great adivce for you. This is just what I know from my experience.

    Good luck!
     
  3. Walt

    Walt New Member

    The questions to ask



    What is the cost of the puppies?



    While cost alone should in no way be the deciding factor of a purchase of a dog for your family, it's suggested you compare their price to the average for this breed. If the price seems rather high compared to average, or seems "too good to be true", don't hesitate to ask why. Expect to pay more for a show quality puppy vs. a pet quality. Expect to have a pet quality animal altered. Avoid ANY breeder who charges more for registrations and pedigrees.



    A back yard breeder will sometimes sell you a dog cheaply with "breeder terms". These terms are usually that you breed the dog and give him a certain number of puppies back. Few responsible breeders do this with total strangers. This is usually only done by Back Yard Breeders who wish to take advantage of someone who doesn't know anything about breeding, thus perpetuating the back yard breeder market. Do NOT be talked into a breeding commitment that you do not want.



    What do you consider the positives and negatives of this breed?



    A responsible breeder will answer your questions honestly. He will tell you the good and bad points about owning this breed. He will help you assess if this is the right breed for you, and if the type of dog he produces will fit with your family. He will be there throughout the life of your dog with his guidance and advise. He will inform you when he doesn't know an answer to something.



    A back yard breeder will usually not answer many questions. He will only tell you all the great things about the dogs. They are perfect for everyone all the time. He will make things up if he doesn't know the answer. He will may never talk to you again once he has your money.



    What are the genetic problems in the breed and these lines?



    A responsible breeder is willing to discuss all of the conditions that affect this breed. He will honestly answer questions about problems that are known to occur in the breed and the bloodlines he is breeding. He will happily provide you with proof of testing of the parents. Some afflictions have no tests available at this time however.



    A back yard breeder will often tell you that there are no problems at all in his lines, or possibly even in the breed itself. He rarely does any genetic testing of his stock. If he knows about problems in his dog's bloodline or even in previous offspring of the dogs, he will certainly not share it with you. He will claim to never have breed a 'bad dog' or will blame a genetic problem as a fluke he's never seen before.



    What health tests have the parents had?



    The parents should be free of CHD as recorded by the OFA or other acceptable genetic registry. Ideally, elbows and knees should be checked also. For a list of other problems this breed suffers from, please visit our health topics page. A breeder should be able to show you proof of these tests being done.



    A back yard breeder may not even know what these tests are, and may be confused when questioned about them. He may make excuses like "all my dogs are healthy", or "her movement is good so there is no need to x-ray her". The Dogo Canario is a high pain tolerance breed and many CHD affected dogs show no lameness, even into advanced age. Do not accept excuses for lack of tests.



    What is the pedigree behind the dogs?



    A responsible breeder will openly discuss the pedigree behind his dogs. Most responsible breeders have gone through the trouble of obtaining quality animals from Spain to assure they are breeding correct animals. He will tell you the good and bad qualities about the dogs in the pedigree of his breeding stock. He has his breeding dogs confirmed to be of breeding quality by qualified judges. He can evaluate a pedigree to find good mates for his dogs.



    A back yard breeder will only know about the pedigree as he reads it. He often has no idea who those dogs are. He is usually more concerned with throwing "champion titles" in the pedigree at you than the quality of the dogs with them. He may use terms like "imported" to validate that he has quality dogs. Imported is NOT necessarily a sign of quality, only place of birth of the animal. Sometimes imported doesn't mean from Spain either. He will tell you that confirming a dog isn't necessary as "his dogs win big at American Shows". What he neglects to mention is that often the judge does not know the breed well, or that only his dogs are in competition there.



    What are the strengths and faults of the parents and puppies?



    A responsible breeder will tell you all the faults that the sire and dam have, as well as be able to assess them in the puppies. He will be able to show you the good and bad traits of each puppy and guide you in selection to best suit your needs.



    A back yard breeder will usually have "perfect parents", without faults. This is entirely impossible, as no dog is perfect. They often have no understanding of breed type, or simply say they only breed for "pets" or "working animals". Even these dogs deserve to be proper examples of the breed. They are not able to assess the puppies good and bad traits, nor help you select the best one for your family.



    What was the goal of this litter?



    A responsible breeder will able to answer this question. They will tell you the specific reasons for the mating of this female with that male. They often use stud dogs owned by other breeders to ensure the best available dogs are paired together. They generally breed for themselves first and after selecting the best prospects, offer the rest of the litter for sale.



    A back yard breeder will generally not have an answer to this question. The "goal" was simply to produce puppies. They may keep a puppy to have one they produced, but often sell the entire litter. Beware of "both parents on premise" advertisements. While many times the breeder does own both sire and dam, they don't generally make that a selling point. A back yard breeder wants to advertise you can see both parents, but usually this means they did not breed to the best possible male, but the closest one.



    How many litters per year do you breed?



    A responsible breeder may have many dogs, but not many litters each year. Generally no more than he has buyers waiting to purchase them. Very good breeders often have a waiting list for their puppies.



    A back yard breeder may have many litters per year, depending on the number of bitches he owns. He may have puppies of many different ages available, as he often doesn't have enough buyers for a litter before breeding another.



    How many litters has the bitch/stud produced? When was the previous litters born? Can I see previous offspring?



    A responsible breeder will not over breed his females, nor breed them before maturity. They generally have no more than 1 litter per year, and are retired from breeding by a reasonable age. A good stud dog may have sired many litters, and can often be used still into older age. A responsible breeder will happily show you previous offspring of the dogs and give you references to owners of them.



    A back yard breeder may breed his females many times in her life. She may produce a litter every season, and may have started on her first cycle, when she was still a puppy herself. She may be still used for breeding well into advanced age. If the bitch is 3 or 4 and has already had 4 litters, or if she is 9 or 10 and still producing....beware. This is a sign of profit breeding. A stud dog may have never been breed outside his own yard. Many times they will not provide any references to previous offspring of the dog. Or may brag about their one dog produced in many years that had some type of accomplishment.



    Can you provide references or other breeders I can contact?



    A responsible breeder will happily provide you with information to contact previous customers of theirs. They generally have other breeders they associate with who they are happy to share with you.



    A back yard breeder often doesn't have references to provide you. He often doesn't maintain any contact once the pup leaves his property. They rarely have other breeders to deal with as they are afraid of the competition of sales.



    Do you have a contract or guarantee with your puppies?



    A responsible breeder will offer a written guarantee outlining sales conditions and terms of guarantee of the dog. It should be clear on all points. If a dog was sold as show quality, will it be guaranteed to finish? If it is a pet, required to be altered? It will be a fair contract that will equally protect both buyer and seller. If for any reason you are unable to keep your dog a responsible breeder will take it back, no matter what the circumstances of the dog.



    A back yard breeder usually doesn't offer a guarantee in writing, some flat out say there is none. He may verbally offer to replace the dog if it has a problem, but good luck enforcing that in court. His guarantee, if there is one, is generally very one sided that benefits only him. If you are unable to keep your dog, he will not usually take it back. He has no room, no time, or you can't find him at all.
     
  4. Clipsed405

    Clipsed405 New Member

    Thanks for the advice, here is the link to the site that I was hoping to purchase the dogs from. http://www.geocities.com/weluvpits/Cover.html im not going to be ready to purchase the dogs for some time now. Allot more reading to do.
     
  5. Sara

    Sara New Member

    I've had up to three pits in my home. Two girls and a boy. The two girls were littermates and the day after I had a Kodak moment of the two adults sharing one cushion on my couch (laying on one another as pups would) they were trying to kill eachother in the front yard...all by accident I was home playing with one and the other was in a separate yard (never play with toys with more than on dog (APBT golden rule)...well from then on my female will not tolerate any other dog besides the male she was raised with. The male is the same way...to males are as bad as two females and they will constantly be "challenging" one another (fixed dogs can be different but as a rule...) and a Pit Bull challenge is something to be avoided at all costs... Best that YOU are the determiner of who's boss among the dogs...etc... With a pair of dogs that are not of the same sex, male, female combination there won't be challenges as often and the challenges won't be as serious as with two dogs of the same sex... Generally they'll get along as buddies.

    I currently have two apbt's and two Boerboels and it's constant vigilance with the dogs. APBT's are not allowed with the Boerboels even supervised. The APBT's have and will always be crated separately from any and all other animals when someone's not there to supervise (you can't guess how much power is in those little guys till something happens--hope you take my word for it and don't have to experience a "yard accident" yourself between your two very loved dogs...

    When you get your puppies SOCIALIZE and that can't be stressed enough. I have a male stray APBT that can't go to petsmart and who gets walked by my big BF...he is dog aggressive and had he been socialized he would be manageable. My female was socialized (keep doing it for their lifetime) and she does well at Petsmart and PetCo...on a leash. She's dominant so we don't often introduce her to new dogs...new pits...never...

    Keep in mind the legal responsibilities you will have with this breed. While I don't aggree with the stigma I have to admit to myself that they are there and they are real. You will be looked down on with these dogs, you will possibly have trouble with homeowners insurance...you will also need to keep up on the local legislation on dangerous dog breeds. Keep your dogs out of the papers....if that means you have to make up for the stupid careless lab owner accrossed the street then so be it... If that means you have to teach your dog to not bark and disturb the neighbors while the neighborhood min-pin wonders his hood and barks at everything that moves...so be it...and you'll need to expect that you'll have to do this...dispite...becuase of the breed of dog you've chosen to own and because of US response to that breed. You will have to be not only responsible enough for YOUR dog you'll need to be responsible for everyone elses dog...because YOUR dog will ALWAYS be viewed as the villian in any altercation...(pooping on someone's lawn)... I'm being kind of harsh...but accepting and making ammends for the harsh realities only ensures that you'll be able to keep your dogs for the rest of their natural lives...and that the breed will continue to have the limited success it has had against BSL...

    I'm on a soapbox here but I've seen toooo many times that people buy these dogs without the knowledge of what it entails to own a dog with this type of stigma... Those folks usually end up getting rid of the dog...and I or other people are the ones who have to clean up the mess, take the dog, find him a suitable home, and deal with the heartbreak it all brings... So...be responsible with the breed... Buy from a responsible breeder only, or rescue from a responsible rescue org./shelter...

    Many people have comended me on my dogs and how well I take care of them and how well controlled they are and how good I am and putting them up and keeping them safely in my yard and keeping them from being in the headlines... it's tough work...but with this breed...it's well worth it.

    Blues often carry cancer and other genetic problems because it is a diluted gene that causes the blue color... If you want a blue...buy from a working Kennel at LEAST... You want a healthy dog to share your life with...don't want disease to cut your time together short...so maybe re-consider your love of blues...or patiently find a reputable breeder who guarantees their dogs.

    I hope I didn't make you crazy or scare you off... The breed is worth the trouble...if you're up for the responsibility! There's always support from places like this one too...so good luck and keep us all posted...

    We will expect pics of the little ones too!
     
  6. Sara

    Sara New Member

    The breeder you linked to is too flashy for me and they consider the red/ red nosed male a rare color...but that color is everywhere... Nothing in the breed is a rare color beyond the merle and that is decended from mixed blood...

    The kennel you linked to though at least has some confirmation titles to tout and the dogs up for stud and breeding seem to be mature (2yrs)...

    But they don't mention a contract or puppy questionaire etc...so I'd think twice about this one...keep on the back burner and continue your search for knowledge of the breed and reputable breeders you want to support by buying their dogs.
     
  7. Clipsed405

    Clipsed405 New Member

    Any puppy sold out of Notorious B.L.U.E. Kennels comes with 2 sets of 7-1 vaccinations (protecting against Canine Distemper, Canine Hepatitis, Leptospirosis, Parainfluenza, and Parvovirus) administered at 6 and 8 weeks, De-wormings at 2, 4, 6, and 8 weeks of age using Veterinary recommended Strongid-T, and an Official Veterinary Health Certificate.

    All puppies come with a Health and Temperment Guarantee covered in our written contract. Each puppy also comes with an extensive Puppy-Care Pack (shown partially below) with samples of a Premium dog food, Toys, Collar/Leash, a Purina guide to Puppy Wellness, and Heartguard Plus & Frontline starters for when they get a little older.

    Shipping is available to anywhere in the United States (excluding Hawaii due to recent quarantine regulations) using either Ground Transportation ($200) or Airline Cargo Freight which runs the buyer an estimated cost of $140.00, plus the cost of a traveling kennel ($40) and Health Certificate ($25). Shipping must be arranged by the time the said puppy reaches 8 weeks of age. The puppy must be paid in full for by the time he/she reaches 6 weeks of age.

    Being that Notorious B.L.U.E. Kennels is a HOBBY breeder, we may not have puppies down when you call or e-mail.  We believe in QUALITY not QUANTITY breedings, so that we may better promote the breed.
    This is not a business, it is our passion.
     
  8. Sara

    Sara New Member

    Glad to see you here and glad you stand behind your dogs...

    Did I miss all of that information on your website? I may have...but if I didn't and it's just not listed...you might want to list it (well some of it at least) so that prospective buyers like me don't assume you don't have health guarantees etc...

    If I did miss it I do apologize... You do have some great looking dogs...I almost caused a short in my keyboard from the drool... I also like that you breed larger APBT's but that they're not OVERSIZED like so many out there...
     
  9. Sara

    Sara New Member

    LOL :oops: My bad... I did miss it...

    Glad you found it... :y_the_best:

    You do get my point though :wink:

    Sorry got "emoticon" happy there.
     
  10. True_Pits

    True_Pits New Member

    What does this mean??


    I think the kennel looks like a good one. Ive always like their dog Last Don, he doens't look anything like that Juan Gotty creature. They appear to be a responsible kennel.
     
  11. chickee

    chickee New Member

    Just so you know, they are a pretty controverial kennel. alot of bullshit going on. Whether true or not, it's been on all the boards for a long time. I would maybe keep doing your homework if I were you. That is aLOT of money. Ask around on different boards about different kennels. Don't be a victim.
     
  12. Walt

    Walt New Member

    Well I'm confused :!:

    Is the person looking for a pup the same people that own the kennel :?:
     
  13. True_Pits

    True_Pits New Member

    No the person looking for the pup is looking to get one from that kennel.

    Could you answer my question though, because its someting I'm confused on.

     
  14. bullylove1

    bullylove1 New Member

    Walt,
    I thnk you got mis understood by one of Sara's posts. That happened to me to. But the guy was just quoting soemthing form the web page. He is wanting to purchase from there.
     
  15. Walt

    Walt New Member

    It looks like both poster have the same name unless my eyes are playing trick on me :shock:

    That articla is a cut & past from the FCI websit True_Pits I read it again and I'm not sure what they mean by that remark but the rest of it is right on the money if you ask me.
     
  16. Walt

    Walt New Member


    OIC,

    It sucks to get old :oops:
     
  17. goob

    goob New Member

    They have some nice looking dogs, but I don't see any sign of health testing on any of them, which I would expect for a pup that costed that sort of money. I'd look for at least hips to be screened (for hip dysplasia), and elbow dysplasia is becoming a big problem in AmStaffs, which some of those dogs are descended from, so screens on those would be nice as well. Also, the watchdog line is known for throwing dogs with congenital heart diseases, so be aware of that if you choose from one with that lineage, and ask to see proof of screens for heart defects/disease. Also, bear in mind that a guarantee against genetic defects means little unless it is good long enough to have time either for such defects to surface, or to be tested for. Many also add that in order to get even a partial refund, the defect must "be detrimental to the dog's quality of life" (Ie: if the dog is crippled with dysplasia at 18 mos of age, they might decide that counts as such), and some will require that the dog be returned, hard to do after you've fallen in love with them. Read through the contract carefully, and clarify with the breeder on anything you don't understand BEFORE you sign anything.

    re: keeping two males....
    You may get lucy and they'll get along famously their entire lives (in which case they should still NEVER be left together unsupervised), or they may decide after a few years of living peacefully that they hate each other. To put it simply, prepare for the worst case scenario, and if you're not willing to eep them seperate at ALL times, don't get two males (there's a risk even with a male and female, but not so much as with same sex pairs). Tal to the breeder and see what they think, as they should now their dogs and their line well enough to give a decent gauge on how dog agrgessive they may end up.

    The dilute gene that causes the blue color does NOT cause other health problems... those problems are caused by people breeding dogs with bad temperaments/health problems only because they are blue, and overlooing the problems the dogs have. Weimeraners for instance are ALL dilutes (though not blue, they're dilute chocolates, like "lilac" APBTs), but they aren't all predisposed to cancer and genetic problems because of it. There are dilutes (blues, fawns, lilacs) in other breeds as well that don't have any different problems than non-dilutes. The only problem directly lined to the dilute gene is color dilute alopecia, which can cause thin or brittle hair coats, but I've never heard of it in APBTs, though I'd guess it possibly has occurred.

    The "K" button on my keyboard is sticking, so sorry for any missing ones in the above :oops:
     
  18. Kandle

    Kandle New Member

    I'm not fond of the "blue" pit bull craze that's going on. And a red nose classified as "rare?" get real. I also think their dogs are too big and I don't like their bloodlines. I would not purchase a dog from them based on those reasons and among other things.....

    Please DO read more before you bring an APBT into your home.
     
  19. True_Pits

    True_Pits New Member

    Goob does this blue fawn APBT female appear to have a alopecia? I'm trying to figure out whats up with her coat it doesn't look healthy at all.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    This is the kennel site http://www.freewebs.com/firestarrkennel/ , major BYBs if you ask me. But they are selling all their dogs, actually asking $1000 for that above bitch...LMAO yeah right.
     
  20. goob

    goob New Member

    No kidding :shock: That doesn't look like alopecia to me, but I've only seen it in person in one dog, a yorkie (who the people were breeding and though was "cute" because he only had a few patches of hair-ewwww), so I could be wrong. From what I've read, CDA always presents itself as baldness, or thin/short brittle coat, not with big bumps like that dog appears to have. Maybe a flea infestation? Or allergies? That does look really strange.

    That kennel has had a big sale of all its dogs before, wonder what the reason is this time? Before they had APBTs and GSDs, and made a big to-do about needing to get rid of them all quickly because of some reason or other.
     

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