Arthritic poodle

Well, I don't think I've posted anything about my poodle lately. She is getting pretty bad with her arthitis. Three legs are affected so far. I have her under a vets care. But sadly things are getting worse. Its hard for me to talk about it. i've mentioned it at the poodle forum I go to and they are great supporters. I know you all are too. She's been on different meds. and nothing really helps. I will just have to try to keep her comfortable. She can still walk, but just lately has been limping more. I've had her one glucosamine supplements for around 2 years. Does anyone know if MSM is better. She also has no more cartlidge in her hind right leg which is luxating. Surgery will not fix the pain. even if I have them do the surgery it will really cause problems for her other hind leg. Her legs just are not strong enough. Just thought I would let you know of my problems. I've got them too. This was weighing heavily on my heart the other day. I was in tears about it. She will only go outside to to her business then wants to be picked up. While she is in my lap though you would not know she has a problem in the world. She is happy to be with me. I will be watching in the future for signs that she is no longer happy. That also about a poodle that has always had a serious and sad look about her.

 

I'm sorry to hear about your poodle's troubles! It's so hard to see our loved ones in pain.

I know for people they say to use both glucosamine and MSM, but I don't know about dogs. And I'm afraid I don't know enough about the subject to know if these things still help in more advanced arthritis or not.

Hopefully someone else can give you some helpful information!


Jamiya

 

What about something like acupuncture? Would that help? Has anyone here used that with an animal before?


Jamiya

 

Puttin, oh your poor girl. here is a link on MSM. I wouls also try accupuncture, hav it does wonders for dogs wiht Arthritis. (Maybbe I should look into it myself)

I have arthritis real bad in my fingers. killing me now because my glucosomine ran out. iam typing with one finger


here is a good web-site on MSM
http://www.arthrix.com/msmanimals.htm

You should check on dosage, she may need it stronger. Theother thing I found with myself is I found a powdered form at Costco, did wonders for my pain, then they stopped carrying it and I went to pill form.

honeybear

 

Puttin sorry to hear about Sasha, she is lucky to have you to keep her comfortable and I wish you guys the best!

 

Thanks you all. I am going to put her on msm. I was going to take her to see the vet today, she got vacs yesterday, but Really he can't do anything for her. I'll check in with him next month when she gets herr parvo shot updated. She has been on deramaxx and then again tried azium. I'm stopping the azium, no obviuos improvment. He said well we can do the knee surgery but with no cartlidge would not improve everything. God and with the way she is limping with her front leg. I just don't see that happening. I need to just try to get her lubed up and meds for pain. I'll check out accupuncture but with limited funds don't know.

 

puttin510, I'm going through the same thing with my dog. I just started the pill form supplements yesterday. However, in researching on this some more, it appears the liquid form works better. Don't give up hope. Check out this site.

http://www.arthritis-glucosamine.net/pet-arthritis/

Barb

 

You know I had tried that, had a hell of a time trying to get the dosage right for a small dog. It was not for us. I had to get something else. I was using the syinge type of dispencer. Plus another type. I did not like it. If it were for a larger dog that needed anything above a 1/8 of a teaspoon it would have been easier. But it was even less than that. I finally thought I had it right, but she did not do good on it. She did better on another product. But with it progressing it gets harder to do anything about it. What is the prognoses of your dog and what breed is it?

 

puttin510,

He is a 15 year old cocker spaniel. He has had trouble laying down, the slow rear end, for about two years. When I asked the vet about it, all he suggested was to give him baby aspirin. I would prefer not to give aspirin, since it causes stomach upset. Plus I've read on-line that it is really not good for dogs. Even though there is supposedly a coated aspirin that is better. The vet made no attempt to offer anything else. So that is why I am trying the Glucosamine, Chondroitin, Vitamin C and MSM supplement.

Barb

 

It's pretty long, but here's the section on arthritis from Martin Goldstein's "The Nature of Animal Healing". Some of the products are available at health food stores. His web site (which is pretty much just a business card) is here: http://www.smithridge.com/

Also, Puttin, I sent you a PM yesterday with some info.



Arthritis

The condition we think of as arthritis in pets actually has several different manifestations: spinal arthritis, hip dysplasia, degenerative joint disease. Some involve a genetic predisposition, especially in large breeds of dogs that experience rapid long-bone growth but also disproportionate weight gain (Great Danes, for example) and those bred to have long spines (dachshunds, for example). At the same time, poor diet is a factor, especially with the pregnant mother, as a fetus's bones and joints are being formed. I also believe that arthritis is exacerbated, if not sometimes actually caused, by the whole gamut of environmental toxins that afflict people and pets alike, as well as by the autoimmune reactions caused by vaccines. The inflammation that characterizes all kinds of arthritis may occur as the body struggles, unsuccessfully, to remove toxins that have settled in the joints. Inflammation, remember, is simply the body responding to foreign invaders, external or internal, by concentrating blood cells around them in an effort to expel them. Secondary to the inflammation process that occurs in the joints, I often see either a diminishing volume or leakage of the natural joint lubricator called synovial fluid, which in turn causes the joint surfaces to rub against one another and grow further inflamed. In my experience, arthritis is seen more often in dogs than in cats.

The standard medical response is to "drug" the symptoms. Cortisone, aspirin, ibuprofen, and phenylbutazone were, until recently, the drugs of choice. Now a much touted drug called Rimadyl has reached the market. Though classified as one of the NSAIDS—nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs—that are considered to have milder side effects than steroids, Rimadyl in my experience has produced disturbing side effects, particularly liver anomalies. A recent newsletter from Tufts University's School of Veterinary Medicine notes as much, with the qualification that these anomalies have only been seen in a "few" dogs. In fact, Rimadyl's manufacturer, the Pfizer corporation, sent a letter to veterinarians on July 30, 1997, stating the risks in more dramatic terms. "Currently about 150,000 dogs take Rimadyl each day... We have received approximately 750 reports of side effects of any kind during the first six months of marketing. This represents 14 reports of a side effect of any kind for every 10,000 dogs treated. The most frequently reported effects have been mild gastrointestinal signs, and we have also received reports involving suspected renal, hematologic, neurologic, dermatologic, and hepatic effects. Some of these cases include an acute hepatic syndrome 16 to 21 days after initiation of Rimadyl therapy. The affected dogs [are] all Labrador retrievers." That was meant as reassurance, though I consider the percentage high. (Also, whenever I see a claim of that sort, I wonder: How many other incidences of side effects weren't reported?) The reported side effects include severe vomiting, nausea, and liver toxicity—proof to me that dogs on it are trying desperately to rid themselves of its toxicity. In sum: Give Rimadyl a miss.

The first step I take in treating arthritis is to put a pet on the natural diet outlined in Chapter Three. At the least, a good diet may help pre-vent a worsening of his condition. I'll also try to wean the pet from whatever arthritis drug he's been on. As I do so, I'll dispense a new natural supplement, Cosequin, which contains primarily glucosamine and chondroitin sulfates. There are many products on the market with similar formulations, but I've had my best responses using Cosequin. It enhances the production of the lubricating fluid in the joints and therefore appears to actually help the joint repair itself. Now widely sold by veterinarians (and available at health food stores as Cosamin), Cosequin has proved immensely helpful.* (*A product similar in its effects to Cosequin, but less expensive, is Glycoflex. It contains perna canaliculus, an extract from the green-lipped mussel, which I believe to be nearly as effective as Cosequin for improving symptoms of arthritis.)

For a more rapid response in severe cases, I'll start by using Adequan—injectable chondroitin sulfate—which I give initially twice a week for four weeks. A good second line of defense is the herbal supplement Ar-Ease (Crystal Star), which contains the herbs yucca, alfalfa, and devil's-claw.
With all arthritics, I use an antioxidant enzyme called superoxide dismutase that comes in liquid, tablet, or injectable form. SOD, as it's called, is produced naturally in the body to help destroy harmful free radical cells that contribute to degenerative diseases such as arthritis, but the body's natural stores become depleted. The supplemental form is available at health food stores (and from many veterinarians) under various brand names. Also available for cases of more serious degeneration is AOX/PLX, which has SOD as its primary ingredient, but that includes three other antioxidant enzymes. Two other antioxidants I use are Pycnogenol and any of the proanthocyanidin complexes (I use Anti-Ox, by Vetri-Science); both are derived from grape seeds.

Another effective treatment for arthritis is, of course, acupuncture. Traditional acupuncture is almost always helpful. Because it's more effective, I now prefer the procedure called aquapuncture. I inject the Smith Ridge "cocktail" of B12 and adrenal cortex, and also homeopathic Zeel, or Traumeel, at the acupuncture points relevant to the patient's condition. In minutes, a pet's pain can ease, and the effects can last several weeks. The effects are also cumulative, so if needed, I'll do several more treatments weekly or bimonthly. Usually, I'll send an arthritic pet home from his acupuncture sessions with an oral form of Zeel or BHI's "Arthritis."

As soon as I get blood results back from the lab, I'll act on them, too. An arthritic pet almost inevitably will show a high level of alkaline phosphatase, the telltale sign of an overtaxed adrenal gland. (The adrenal is the gland that controls inflammation in an effort to eliminate damage and toxins, and thus has a close relation with arthritic joints.) A body's pH factor is its balance of alkalinity and acidity; to reduce a high alkaline count, I'll give substantial doses of vitamin C in the ascorbic acid form.

Ultimately, the best approach to arthritis is preventative. If a pregnant mother is kept on a good-nutrition diet, her fetus will develop strong bones and joints and not be programmed to get arthritis. If a newborn is put on that same diet, vaccinated minimally, and subjected to few or no medications, including antiflea and antiheartworm drugs, his chances of developing arthritis will be virtually nil.



I hope some of this is of help to you and little Sasha!


Jamiya

 

Wow, Jamyia. Thanks for taking the time to post this. Maybe it can be of some help to Seebr also. We have done the adequan shots. Not much difference. Just a bit. I had ordered some MSM to start adding to her diet. Possibly cosaquin(sp) in the future too. I'm going to check out his sight. Ya know come to think of it, we did use Glyco-flex. But I was not sure it was good enough. It did help though. But I moved onto another brand which seemed to be helpful. Always trying to find a better one.


Seebr: I'm really syurpised your vet did not at least tell you about the different products they have out there. He could have easily started him on Deramaxx too. I think the products you bought will be helpful. It takes about six weeks to get into the system. When did you start?

 

There are also all sorts of homeopathic remedies, based on exactly what kind of pain she is experiencing, how she is acting, etc. Homeopathic prescribing is very complicated.


Jamiya

 

Well she is very alert, her problems mainly right now. Seem to be mostly first off her front left foot, which is twisting inward. She can not walk on the pad anymore. She is walking on the tenderer area of her foot, limping. I wonder if a bootie of some sort would be helpful. What do you think. It would have to be lightweight. Then her right hind leg, has the cartlidge worn away and patella problem. Whats your view on this?
Right now she is on a gluco-chondroitant supplement with ester-c and yucca and other good things in it, plus deramaxx. I just stopped the azium.

 

Have you tried aqua therapy? I know the msm has been used on dogs before. and most have great results!

Anyhow. You could try "swimming" her in your bathtub. Fill it with warm water juntil her paws can't touch. Allow her to float and stretch her legs, rubbing the joints ect. I've had great results with my horses!

Also. There is a liniment gel that I've had GREAT results from. You can use it on you as well. Its usually at a feed store. Called Absorbine, and another called Grand Flex. They are both great. you put about a dime size portion in your hand, and thoroughly rub it in, making sure to get it under the fur/hair. Just amke sure they don't lick it.

 

I've though about the aqua therapy, I just did not know if my tub was deep enough. How long and often is good?
Also, I have heard of absorbine. I think from when my boys were small. Maybe I'll try that, perhaps before any bath. She may try to lick it.

 

Its got a menthol smell and feel to it. thats where the cooling effect comes to play!

I would start out by holding her in the water, that way, you know she's not touching bottom, and only do it the first time for maybe 3-4 minutes. Add longer time as she adjusts. I would only go 10 minute max at a time. Do the routine 2 times a day. I would run it by your vet first before trying it. Just to get his oppinion!

 

Alright thank you.

 

puttin510,

He has only been on it for 4 or 5 days. I'll wait it out and see how he does.

Unfortunately, I'm really depressed now. I had tried to get his teeth clean last week and the vet detected something not right with his heart. He did a EKG and the result came back, suggestive of left ventricular enlargement and that the dental surgery should be postpone. Took him to the heart specialist today and she confirmed it and put on Atenolol. I will post a site to finish this story. Since it really doesn't belong in this category.

Barb

 

Alright. I know how your feeling though.

 

Puttin, just wanted to say im sorry to hear about your poodle. We had our arthritic senior dog on glucosamine with chondroiton and also MSM (and vit c). Seemed to really help. I did increase dosage some days - really seemed to help. Sharks cartilage is another good thing. There are all types of brands that contain all or more of the above and you just give once or twice a day. I agree about the acupuncture, can be quite helpful. Hope you find something that helps!