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breeding cruelty?

Discussion in 'Dogs - Pit bull breeds specific' started by Angelus, Mar 24, 2004.

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  1. Angelus

    Angelus New Member

    Hi, I just had a question to ask. back a couple years ago my boyfriend at the time became friends with a guy who bred pitbulls and got him interested in it. one time though, a bitch did NOT want to be bred and was fighting the male. so they taped her mouth shut. i kept bringing it up to my boyfriend that it just did not seem right to do that and it just bothered the hell out of me. and to this day he doesnt think there was anything wrong with it and tries to say its a common practice that breeders and vets do. is this true? is what they did right? also, i think they said the female had been trained to fight by the past owners, i cant really remember if thats correct though.
     
  2. Jas

    Jas New Member

    :cry:
    Tape???? How horrific, you know if any of these "people" had a clue about breeding they would know about muzzles which sometimes are needed for bitches. Taping a dogs mouth shut is cruel and inhumane NO decent vet or reputable breeder would call this common practice, its barbaric. Sounds like they got more amusement out of it than purpose. Perhaps there was a reason she was not receptive - LIKE NOT READY YET - too early or late in her cycle. Animals have uncanny ways of knowing these things. I'd trust the dogs actions over the knowledge of these beastly so called 'breeders'. Ever heard of ARTIFICIAL INSEMINATION??? I suspect they were too money hungry or uneducated about breeding to have a vet do AI's and cytology/progesterone test to make sure she had ovulated (or close to it). Please inform the ignorant that natural breedings are not the only way.

    I know I'm going to regret the emotion in my post but this is sick and I just can't believe the cruelty. Do people not realize the emotional trauma and pain they can inflict on a helpless animal. Gees no wonder the breed is plagued by tarnished perceptions, being raised by shady characters is enough to make any dog unstable. :x


     
  3. bullylove1

    bullylove1 New Member

    Jas,
    That was a very good response. And do not worry about the emotion one bit. It is people that have no emotion that would do sucha thing to a living animal!
    If I ever witnessed that, I would have lost it completely on the owner. So many things could have happend during that violent act. What if she jerked and the males penis ripped out of her and caused internal bleeding.
    If I were you, I would definately stay away from these people. Its a proven fact that people who show aggression towards animals usually transfer that over to people in their lives.
     
  4. Samsintentions

    Samsintentions New Member

    Very true. I've seen females that didn't want to breed EVER. In that case, then something is obviously wrong and she shouldn't be bred at all.

    Dumb asses!! They really tick me off. Taping the mouth shut. Makes you wonder what he does to his girlfriend/ wife when she doesn't want to......
     
  5. chickee

    chickee New Member

    Taping is more common than you think, and people do, do it. I don't. I have used a muzzle when needed.

    As far as having a bitch not wanting to breed, well, they also make 'breeding racks' where the bitch is secured to. This also includes securing the head so they can't bend around. The male can then mount her without her being able to get away. I do own one of these, but would only use it if all else failed. I have not had to use it so far. Anyway, because a female doesn't WANT to mate, sure doesn't mean she shouldn't, especially if it's a breeding that has been planned for months and months. Some bitches just don't like the other dogs or what have you. Maiden bitches are also hard to breed (sometimes) as they are a bit confused on what to do OR how to go about it even if they do want to. As far as A.I. is concerned, alot of the time finding a vet who will do this is hard, believe it or not. Sometimes it's hard to find a good vet period. I'm having a problem right now with a maiden bitch. She is driving me absolutely CRAZY. They did get together, but no ties. I will have to sit and wait I suppose. In the meantime, I'm ordering me an A.I. kit for any other future problems.
     
  6. True_Pits

    True_Pits New Member

    TAPING...WTF. NO, these people have serious problems, I would never say its okay or common practice. I suppose you could, I mean holding puppies down while some one takes a razor blade to their ears is "common practice". Or taping their legs, and mouth together while cutting their ears off. Its not right, but I know many people who have done this. Taping...hmmmm Your never supposed to tape a dogs muzzle for any reason. A muzzle is specially made for a dog allowing them to breed. These people are barbaric idiots, who sound like BYBs, not knowing what the heck they are doing. Breeding a female "trained to fight" stupid people. Is it too expensive to buy a muzzle!!!! AI may not be an option for everyone, but a muzzle can be found almost anywhere at a decent price, and what about a breeding stand? Sure they are a little expensive but for some one commited to breeding that shouldn't be a problem. The dogs come first no matter what. If you don't have one at least borrow one from a friend.
     
  7. Angelus

    Angelus New Member

    I agree with you completely. My boyfriend at the time wasnt the one that taped her mouth shut, his friend did it, but he didnt STOP his friend from doing it. And when I mentioned it to him he flipped out on me telling me to shut up im not a breeder so i dont know what im talking about :x I think that forcing an animal to mate is RAPE. just bec/ an animal CAN breed doesnt mean you should make them. just bec/ its a dog and not a human then that makes it ok to tape its mouth shut or use a muzzle? from a FEMALE perspective whos been through this, i wouldnt ever wish it on anybody or anything human or animal. although I dont think they did that to get a laugh out of it though. but they both seemed really uneducated about it after reading all this breeding information on different websites. and boyfriend's friend supposedly had been breeding for years. well i cant hang out with his friend now due to the fact he's in jail now, nothing to do with animal cruelty though.
     
  8. loves-da-pits

    loves-da-pits New Member

    O.K. I know everyone is thinking it, so, I will say it. I hope someone ties your boyfriend's friend mouth shut and force him to do the deed now that he's in jail and can't escape. What goes around, comes around.
     
  9. Angelus

    Angelus New Member

    no its not my boyfriend whos in jail, its his buddy whos in jail and it was his buddy who taped the dogs mouth shut. my boyfriend just didnt do anything to stop it and just stuck up for his idiotic asshole buddy when i was all pissed off about what happened. :x but yeah, i really hope his asshole friend gets what he deserves.
     
  10. Angelus

    Angelus New Member

    oops i misread your post. all i saw was the word "boyfriend" and i didnt see "friend"
     
  11. kyles101

    kyles101 New Member

    im not a breeder so i guess i have no right to voice my opinion. but i will anyway. bag me and correct me all you want. if a female doesnt want to breed, why cant people respect that she doesnt want to? if the female doesnt want to know the male why cant people leave it at that? im not saying i know fore sure whats going on inside a dogs head if someone tapes their mouth shut or ties them to a rack [sorry chickee but that sounds like some medievil torture machine], but i do know that with any species of animal, if they are made to do something against their will [something unbeneficial and unecessary in particular] they are going to feel like crap! if i was a breeder and had a dog that refused to breed with anyone id just accept the fact that it isnt going to happen and move on. i might consider artificial methods, but never, would i force a dog to actually do the deed if it didnt want to. someone compared it to rape, and i agree. until someone proves that dogs dont care if people try barbaric methods of getting them to breed, then im standing by what ive said.
     
  12. True_Pits

    True_Pits New Member

    I have to disagree with that. Breeding stands are great and keep the male safe and unharmed by the female or accidents and also secures the female making it safer and easier to breed. Just leaving it be and dropping the breeding would be pointless if you really think about it. All that hard work, time, money into the dog and it turns out to be great and will be a killer producer (hopefully) but now you can't breed and continue the line? That wouldn't hardly be right. To stop breeding Pit Bulls (yes there i over population of Pit Bulls and dogs in general), but to stop breeding the great dogs just because they would rather fight then breed is ridiculous. Some males are even crazy like this and have to collect semen from, but almost any male will try to get at a bitch in season due to their intense drive to breed. Most the time they will only fight male dogs, but their are crazy exceptions that must have semen collect and AI the female. Though if I ever bred one of my males I would have to do this because he went psycho on any bitch and ignored females in heat, still tried to fight them. All that changed when he matured, he is calmer all together actually anyway...On the other hand you have the females many females will fight not just other female dogs but male dogs and of course refuse to breed when they are wanting to kill the male. A breeding stand prevents this, keeps them both safe. We shouldn't stop breeding dogs just because we have to assist them in breeding. A breeding stand/rack doesn't at all harm the bitch, she just must stand up. A muzzle never harms a dog, its made to be safe and used generally, some will stand but try to turn and bite the male. I don't see how you could think it is wrong, good breeders need to keep breeding, its not their fault bitches will fight male dogs. Now taping a dogs mouth shut I dont agree and trying to force a bitch to breed the wrong way and when she's not ready yet like an idiot is stupid.
     
  13. kyles101

    kyles101 New Member

    it might not harm her physically, but what about mentally? there is a difference between assisting a dog and forcing a dog. if you think taping is wrong, then why is muzzling right? they are both forms of restriction. if you had a daughter of child bearing age would you ask some joe on the street to have sex with her, against her will, just so you can have a grandchild and extend your family? would you tie her to a bed if she said no? forgive me for using this as an example but i think the dog would be feeling the same things as the daughter. in my mind, no amount of 'continuing the line' business would excuse forcing, not assisting, a dog to mate. im not going to reply to anymore on this thread as im never going to change my mind until someone proves dogs dont mind being muzzled, tied, held down and having males pushed on them.
     
  14. Jas

    Jas New Member


    I'm sure taping is more common among shady indiscriminate breeders but it is absolutely NOT necessary and NOT common practice with reputable breeders.


    Sometimes a female doesn't want to mate because she doesn't want to or because the male is overbearing etc, but some females aren't meant to be bred and may naturally be aware of this. Just because a breeding has been planned doesn't mean it should take place either. *Sometimes* a female saying otherwise shouldn't be entirely disregarded or ignored.

    Depends where you are, in this day and age it's not difficult to find a vet who will do AI's or provide with AI kits. There are plenty of vets who specialize in reproduction. One of mine does. These days A.I. kits are not hard to obtain. Besides good breeders plan ahead and prepare themselves with a backup plan should all not go as expected.
     
  15. Angelus

    Angelus New Member

    sorry, but if a female doesnt want to , then she DOESNT WANT TO and therefore its RAPE, whether we're talking about a human, a cat, a dog, whatever. now a breeding rack might be alot safer than just taping the mouth shut, but when it comes down to it, its against the females will. and trying to justify that by saying "bec/ it was planned" sounds like the only interest in the dog is to get something out of her rather than loving and respecting her as she is.
     
  16. True_Pits

    True_Pits New Member

    This is all turning crazy. Well ok its rape, thats your opinion. I don't think the bitch has any trauma at all. Getting something out of her? How shallow and lame, you put all your time and money and detication into the breeding good dogs and then to NOT breed them because the female "doesn't want to". How to you get that the bitch doesnt want to? How do you know whats going on in their head and if they even know whats going on? Just because they see another dog and think fight? Sorry but all that sounds a little crazy. The reason for proving the dog, health testing, temp testing, getting good stock, ect is to breed and bring in the next gen. But yes you are so right its rape and we should stop breeding Pit Bulls because the people before us instilled dog aggression in them and we should let them die out to exstinction, that would solve the problem of dog aggression as well as all the other Pit Bull problems, attacks, over population, ect because the breed would be gone. Hmmmm well maybe it wouldnt because idiots like this would still tape dogs mouths shut and after us all the BYBs would just take over, more so then they already have.

    To me it just doesn't sound right, because she doesn't want to. If your dog doesn't want to come when you call it just leave it be. If your dog is really dog aggressive and needs to see a vet don't take it, because it doesn't want to.

    How silly is this. Well I guess I have to explain it. You see muzzles are specially made for dogs and safe. They keep dogs from biting whether it be people or other dogs. Tape on the other hand is dangerous and can ristrict breathing or even cause death. I don't know what do you think?

    We shouldn't be forcing these dogs to do anything..right!! If you have a dog that bites don't bother putting a muzzle on it, thats so wrong, if you have a dog aggressive dog and have to go into an area with other possible dogs don't muzzle it, thats restriction and the dog wouldnt want to be like that. Same thing when you breed it a muzzle is just so wrong...lol This is a no brainer. I don't see why you sholdn't breed the dog and not employ the use of a muzzle but its okay for walking the dog?????
     
  17. chickee

    chickee New Member

    It's not crazy True_pits. lol. It's just people who don't have the faintest idea about a certain topic, voicing their opinion. Remember, we all have an opinion!
    Isn't going to change how I do things, so who cares?

    My dogs get more trauma getting their nails trimmed. :roll:
     
  18. Angelus

    Angelus New Member

    buddy, i didnt say anything about not breeding pitbulls bec/ they had agression instilled in them. i meant you shouldnt force an animal to breed if they dont want to, thats ANY animal not just pitbulls. oh and there is a way to tell when a female doesnt want to breed, they FIGHT the male. now i cant get inside the dog's head and figure out WHY she doesnt want to be bred, but the point is she doesnt want it. maybe theres something wrong, or she doesnt like the other dog and needs more time. and also some of your other "examples" could be used for children. like somebody pointed out earlier, would you want to force your child to have sex so you can have grandkids even if she didnt want to? no, so would you also go and let your child go wild and crazy and not punish them and correct them? no i dont think a good parent would just let their kid go wild and do what they want. same with a good dog owner. the thing we're discussing is is it morally right to breed a dog even when they show signs that they dont want to breed? whether it means using tape, muzzle or breeding rack. we're not talking about using a muzzle to just walk a dog ect. but it doesnt matter to me what you think. i had my question answered. and that was that these people were very uneducated in breeding and if they knew what they were doing they wouldve a. used a muzzle b. used a breeding rack c. at least let the dogs get to know eachother before even bothering to breed them d. shouldnt have bred the female in the first place since she was trained to fight.
    anyway, some pple feel its ok to breed the dog even when it shows signs that it doesnt want to for whatever reason. but others feel you should never force a dog into doing the deed for whatever reason. thats an opinion. but the FACT is in this situation these people went completely about it in the WRONG way.
     
  19. True_Pits

    True_Pits New Member

    Animals breeding can't be called rape, they have no concept of this and values. They breed because its a natural insticts, the male has a strong drive to bree the female no matter what. Often times forcing the female and will try as hard until it can. In some cases will take a whipping from a female or exhuast itself trying even killing itself of heat stroke. You all can join my Aunt on the belief all female animals are raped, thats where your headed. Cats never want to breed they are always raped. She has cats, spayed all female. She rescue a pg female cat that is how she got them. One of her cats was outside in her own yard when a male tried to force her to breed although she is spayed, her cat was trying to get away and screaming which is how my Aunt noticed. Females dogs raped all the time if you want to say that, because many dont want to breed but are left outside in heat, many times trying to fight off a male. But in the end they loose, are bred and have bite marks on there neck and even head.

    Guess what Buddy females are almost always forced to breed, I guess you never seen many animals in the wild breed or you would be screaming rape. The only animals having sex for pleasure are humans and supposedly dophlins. Some bitches will stand there, of will not, most wont and thats with any breed. I guess you think Koala breeding is rape too, since the female never wants to and fights back and screatches. But the male still forces her to and will successfully breed in most cases, forcing her to breed and scratching her until she bleeds. Even to AI a Koala you will have to let her go through the act of breeding so it will take. This is natural wild animals and domesticated animals that breed without human intervention. So he brutily rapes her I guwss. Or is it only rape when humans interveine and makes it safer for both by not allowing the female to fight back? This is what Chikees meaning, you don't know what your talking about so how can you have an accurate opinion on the subject.
     
  20. True_Pits

    True_Pits New Member

    And how exactly does this work when a female always wants to fight? Regardless of being bred?
     
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