Dog that have bitten

Does anyone have any thoughts - or links - about what chances are of a dog that has bitten once, biting again?

Can a dog that has bitten be completely "rehabilitated"? Or will he always have a tendency to bite.

 

IMO It depends on the situation of the "bite" was it a big bite or just a nip, or a warning??? You havn't given much info as to what has actually happened...
Did something or somone provoke the bite?? Or was it just out of the blue.???
There is loads of answers but you need to be more specific.. :?:

 

I recently have become involved with a family that needs to rehome a dog.

The dog is a 2yr N/M that they have never had any behavioral or medical problems with. The dog was left unsupervised with a pre-schooler and the dog gashed the child's cheek. Supposedly (there were no adults present to witness the incident) the child dropped some food, and when the dog went to get it, she tried pulling the dog away and the dog gashed the child.

Once a dog has exhibited behavior like this is there a tendency for it to be repeated? I believe this inncident was an accident - the dog was either scared or hurt by the child. But does this type of aggression leave an imprint in the dogs mind that he will be more prone to use this type of behavior the next time he is scared or feeling threatened?

 

Hi Herman:
You can e-mail me directly if you wish to discuss the situation further, at Dynamic_dog_Training@myway.com.
It honestly depends on the situation, the amount of re-training & what you put into the dog. Obviously the child and the dog should have not been left alone together. I would not re-home the dog again with a family that has young children obviously.
Thanks,
Sue

 

My Molly bit someone a few months ago :cry:
I had her visiting her dog friend's house, they were playing outside.
The homeowner's adult son (24 years old) stopped by to visit and before I could grab Molly he came inside - which he has every right to do.
Molly did walk right past him at first then when her friend Beau jumped up on the guy he pushed Beau down and sternly said "get off me". Molly turned around and bit him. I was beside myself - fear and anger. Fear of what would happen to Molly and anger that she did this but I remained calm.
It all worked out, he didn't need medical attention and luckily his father adores Molly (he's a lawyer doubling my fear) and wouldn't see anything happen to her.
BUT....it was up to me to ensure Molly would never do that and it is up to me to make sure it never ever happens again. I would never rehome a dog with a bite history.
Molly now gets muzzled when someone comes to my house until I feel she has calmed down (she's fine after someone gets in) and I will never again place her in a situation where she feels threatened enough to bite someone...she doesn't go to Beau's house to play anymore.
My fault....I knew she has tendencies like that around men. I simply didn't grab her fast enough but the situation should have been in my control.
I was told by a behaviorist this was probably a one-time event and I simply have to control the situations that Molly is in - my dog my problem - I don't think it's fair to give it to someone else.

 

Is Molly a rescue?
If you would never rehome a dog with a bite history, what would you do if you couldn't keep the dog? I mean if there was a situation that absolutely prevented you from keeping the dog. What would you do?

I know the shelters are full of dogs that have bitten - some of them are placed, and some aren't so fortunate.

I totally and completely agree that it is an owners reponsibility to prevent any opportunity for a dog to exhibit this type of behavior. It is the owners complete responsibility to help their dog suppress this type of behavior.

Horrible accidents ususally happen because of the owners lack of supervison, lack of commitment to train their dog, and lack of information to understand the particulars of their breed(s).

 

I don't think Molly would be considered a rescue - she was born into foster care and remained there until we adopted her from her foster person (she'd been given permission to rehome all pups).
What would I do if I couldn't keep her? Even though that is really a hyperthetical question as it wouldn't happen - I would have her PTS.
Easy to say you say - I've done it before.
I had a 5 year old dog we raised from the time she was 8 weeks old - her prey drive grew strong as she grew older. Unfortunately my son was about 4 at the time and Daisy would knock him on his keesta to get outside. She'd sit/stay when we were inside going out, but outside going in seemed to play different in her mind - she'd bolt. She once tried to bolt when I had her on a leash (I was 9 months pregnant) I had to let go in self-defense.
Anyway she killed 2 neighborhood dogs - we had her PTS. Yes people disagreed with our choice but I could not give her away and spend years wondering what happened to her, how her life was...was she being treated well. These are all things I could not live with wondering about. And yes having her PTS was the hardest thing I've ever had to do.
But I would do it again rather than spend years wondering if my dog who had issues was okay.
My niece once gave away a young beagle. The dog's id tags were never changed or removed from her collar. One day a shelter in Mass (we live in NH) called her cause they had her dog. They accused her of dumping the dog at a college campus in Mass. We found out that the dog had FIVE HOMES in the six months that my niece had originally given her away to. And the last home simply dumped her.
And we have no idea how she was treated in any of them.

 

Mary, I very much respect your answer. It is a horrible, terrible decision to make - but saying good-by, knowing the dog is at peace is, I believe a far more humane decision than rehoming a dog that has particular quirks.

It is a very difficult call to make, and I think only a veteran dog owner/trainer/lover would be able to make that decision.

I have a very bad feeling for the dog that I am trying to help. The current owners are a disappointment.
I have encouraged them to keep the dog, but they are too worried about getting sued, but they make a commitment to this animal to care for him. Because he made a mistake (granted it was a biggie!) they now want to wash their hands of him.
I have encouraged lifestyle changes - keeping the dog behind baby gates, or crated (not in an isolated area) when they have company or children around. Never, leave the dog unsupervised or even unleashed with children. To be sure that children that come to their house are also supervised by their parents, and the parents are told that there is a large dog living there that can bite. To enroll in a good obedience class, any sort of training, agility, draft, carting, tracking - whatever! To avoid bones, or toys that the dog shows possissiveness over - If the dog needs to chew - a rawhide chip, or a peanut butter filled kong will do -- something to relieve the chewing need but not something that will last too long that the dog will feel a need to "protect".

Some of these suggestions are lifestyle changes for the family -- but they may be like this for only a few years. I look at these few years as -
1. Their penalty for impulsively purchasing a puppy.
2. What they owe their pet for putting him in a compromising situation where he acted on his instince.

I was thinking, there aren't too many dogs that I have met in my life that I didn't like --- but I've met a lot of dog owners I didn't like.

 

I was just reading a book on dog behavior, and one of the things they talked about is how common young children getting bitten on the face is. The cause, typically, is that the dog views itself as dominant over the child, and the way a dominant dog would correct a puppy that steps out of bounds would be to nip the puppy on the face, to teach the pup that that is not allowed. Obviously, a child's skin is much thinner than a puppy's, so it breaks the skin. Obviously, I can't judge that as the case in that particular situtation since I wasn't actually there and we're (I'm assuming) going off of what a 4yo said. And, it can be hard to teach a 4yo that they are in charge of the dog not vice versa.

 

That is why it is totally irresponsible of an adult to leave children unsupervised with dogs - no matter what the age, no matter what the temperment!

Children are more often the wildcard in the equation than the dogs.

A short time ago, a child was severly mauled by the family dog -- the child was 7 or 8 yrs old - I don't remember - but the parents are being charged with child endangerment and the courts (thank goodness - finally!) are throwing the book at them.

I had read a while back that golden retrievers are one of the most common child biters right now. Why? Not because they are aggressive dogs - but because they are so popular and people assume they are babysitters.

 

First off it wasn't the dog's fault that he/she bit... Second off a pre-schooler should not be unsupervised...I'm sorry with or without the dog kid shouldn't have been left alone for that ammount of time period. If kid isn't old enough for dog to respect him/her kid isn't old enough to be left for any ammount of time unsupervised regardless of dog being present or not.

I've been totally obsessive about watching Dog Whisperer these days and I have to say that regardless of circumstances, unless the dog was injured or ill the dog can be completely "rehabilitated"...

I haven't read the whole post yet just snippets so if I beat a dead horse I apologize. I do hope the dog is either re-homed or the current owners seek a behaviorist to help with proper socialization of the dog and family...they can all live happily ever after with a bit of patience, knowledge, and work.

Sara

 

I disagree there sara.. Bad behavior in a dog should NOT be tolerated..Especially around kids.

Yes the child should of been supervised.. But NO ONE knows how long the incident went on..
That needs to be cleared up.. If it was prolonged, teasing of food, the yea, the dog reacted.. But if it was a short quick mistake, the the dog really needs to be looked at..IMO ANY DOG that is re-homed NEEDS to be looked at , especially if it has issues with kids, and the people that Re-Home a dog need to look at the in depth look at the character of a dog, especially when the home has KIDDIES around..

 

the kid thing is a HUGE concern for me with Molly too. I have a 5 year old great nephew and a 3 year old great niece. They aren't at my house often but when they are I need to be 100% certain that they are safe. When they come over usually the first thing we do is get my 'phew outside with Molly to play Frisbee. That settle her down and establishes some trust w/my nephew (who isn't afraid of dogs BTW but is respectful).
I'm having a house full for Christmas, something Molly needs, but she will have her muzzle on until I feel she has calmed down sufficiently.
Molly has the potential to be a fear biter - and yes we have sought the advice of a behaviorist. We muzzle her when guests first come over, but we don't have company often. I make her sit back and get away from the door when someone comes in. Only when I see she has relaxed do I let her greet any guest.
she's improving but Dog Whisperer makes it look like w/in 10 minutes the problem is solved. It takes MONTHS of consistency and if someone isnt' willing to spend the time, or take the commitment, with the dog they might as well not even try.

 

I don't like the dog whisperer. He does make it look like you can have a champion obedience dog in 10minutes! Impossible!!!!

Sure, you can get a positive response in 10 minute --- but you have to repeat, repeat, and repeat that positive response for 10 weeks until that behavior begins to be permanantly imprinted in the dogs mind!

Hey - it's TV folks!

Using a mesh muzzle is a good idea when strange people, especially children are visiting. I see nothing cruel or harsh about it! I see it as protecting everyone and being a caring and responsible dog owner.

If anyone has rescue contacts around the Chicago area -- please PM me!

I don't think I am emotionally strong enough to tolerate the human element in rescue and rehoming. I am much to opinionated to keep my mouth shut and not tell the releasing owner what idiots they are to have allowed a compromising situation to take place.

 

I have to give another point of view here, since its a young child know one really knows what really happened. An example. I have bent down to pick something up, ie food, toys and my dogs tries to grab it at the same time I am picking it up so my hand ends up int their mouth. they arent biting me

It was so stupid on the owners part to have food around a child that young. I also dont think they should be playing either

they can test the dog for food aggression that should tell them right up front if the child was bit trying to take the food away or maybe the the mouth just got caught because of the size of the dog and child.

 

Honey, they did take the dog for an evaluation. The owner told me that they offered him an irrestistible treat - hot dogs, let him have some, and then called him away. He did come when called.

But, they did say that he was "food possessive". I asked the owner to e-mail or fax me a copy of the report and have yet to see it.

I think the child dropped the food, the dog went to get it -- probably because he is used to picking up food that the kids he lives with drop. And the visiting child went to pull the dog away from the food she wanted, and since she lives with a small breed dog, and her dog at home is used to her behavior -- she went to grab the collar. Maybe she pushed, maybe she grabbed an ear and pinched, maybe the dog was trying to tell her that food on the floor in that house is his. Whatever the reason, the dog gashed the girls cheek.

I am getting really upset with these owners because the accident was entirely their fault! They had no business leaving visiting young children, with food, unsupervised!!! Geez, even if there wasn't a dog in the house --- she should never have left the child unsupervised with food --- the kid could have choked to death. Or the kid could have gotten hurt some other way -- just because there was no supervision.

 

Chezza, it wasn't the dog's fault that he/she bit... they have teeth and they bite and can bite and the fact that he/she bit a child is because he/she was not under control and was not being managed correctly by his/her owner...the faulty party here is indeed the owner, not the dog. Bad behaviot in a dog is not because of the dog, it's because of the human, lack of training, incorrect handling etc.. That was my point in my post.

The main point in my post aside from mr. Milan is that these folks need to have the dog evaluated by a professional before any decisions can be made. Not just an afternoon evaluation but a training evaluation over time in the home with the family etc... If they simply do not want the dog a reputable rescue should be capable of taking on the dog and assessing his issues.

It's impossible to give any other advice than that online. A behavior specialist can rehabilitate most any dog, it's a matter of wanting to work with the dog or not.

If somone take Ceasar Milan on a few TV shows they see on the tube or even by his book I'd definately worry about the person's qualifications for even having a dog in the first place. Disclaimers are everywhere regarding Ceasar's publications TV shows and book both that explain that anyone wanting to train a dog should seek professional help and not try his stuff on his own. His tactics however are right on, no matter how long they take to get the point accrossed.

Sara

 

Sara, part of the problem is our society --
Yes it's the humans fault -- but the dog gets the bad rap!
The cowardly human would rather dump the dog - than accept admit to their own stupidity! And --- accept the responsiblity of the consequences.

 

The Irony of this whole thread is insane. Right now I'm posting here sitting in my room trying to tune out the poor rescue pit who was screwed up by her owners... She's got such bad separationg anxiety, she's going on about 30 minutes of barking in her crate, she was outside witht he rest of the pooches and still standing at the back door barking her head off to get inside... She's dominant and a love so no doubt got away with claiming every peice of furniture in her house and her owner... who incidently left her on the farm with "enough food and water" for a friend to pick her up three weeks later... I've got her and am trying to figure out what to do. Re-homing her in this condition to someone other than a stay at home type is impossible, we can't afford meds to calm her down and then ween her off of them like we did another dog in a similar situation and I've already got six dogs of my own.

As soon as we get a good pause of the yapps I'll be taking her out, playing short putting her out to potty and then back up for another round...I work all day so I'm really not sure what I can do for the dog at this point...I hope I can find a rescue that may take her in...but most around here are full! She's progressed a lot since we started on Saturday but so far this separation issue is the clencher, her dominant attitude is no help...basically she's simply throwing a fit to get what she wants...and she's a bully so her fit CAN and DOES last. Urgh...

As far as the biting dog is concerned I think that if in the end they do decide to put him/her to sleep it will ultimately be better for the dog as they are not willing to put in the time to do anything else to put him in a good state of mind, so he'd either live miserably scaring everyone or over that rainbow bridge. EVERY day I see this girl I'm MAD at people and society...sigh...it's just not fair for the poor animals.

Sara

 

Hi Herman:
I did e-mail you my response. My phone number is at the bottom of my e-mail feel free to contact me if you wish.

If the dog does have food guarding issues here is some info that will help.
Also practice drop it and leave it exercises too.
Talk soon.
Sue

Working with dogs with food aggression:

First, no free feeding. That gives him something to guard all the time and is too dangerous. Also, I would feed him in other places, not just the kitchen. Let's take away a specific guarding attitude about that room. Do not give in to him because that can greatly complicate things.

He'll never be reliable to have his food with other dogs wandering around the room but that is not advisable in the first place. If you ever have another dog there, be sure to give each animal complete privacy from the other when they are eating. Food brings out survival instincts in many dogs.

ALWAYS KEEP YOUR CHILD AWAY FROM HIM WHEN HE HAS FOOD/TREATS, ANYTHING THAT HE VALUES.

He definitely needs to be able to calmly tolerate people in the room when he is eating. Don't leave his food dish on the floor. Then there's nothing to guard.

At mealtime, give Mr. Big-Britches a dish with nothing in it! Once he realizes his tough luck and looks at you, don't be in a hurry. Let him shift into another gear, wanting the food, knowing you are the source of it. Walk up and put just a little in the dish.

If you feel safer, hold the dish in your hand rather than putting it down, so he has to come to you for the food. If you're holding the dish, change your location after each bit. Because you're going to feed his whole meal in bits, each time wait until he realizes he is out of food and looks to you again. This way you are by-passing his survival instincts and those nasty habits he has established, and helping him see you near the food dish from a whole new perspective. You are now not a potential threat to his food; you are the giver of food!

Don't expect this to be a quick fix and since his food aggression is so violent, go through the process every now and then as a brush-up. As obedience training progresses, you can also have him sit or down as you put his dish on the floor and he has to wait until you release him to get it. I would not do the common exercise of taking his food away just to prove to him that you can. This can cause the very problem you are seeing because it makes him see you as a threat to his food.

If a dog growls at me when I get near his food dish, I do remove the dish for 15 minutes. Then I give it back and see how he responds to my being there. One of my dogs has a real problem and she is a real monster toward other dogs around food- living with her has -taught me a lot! With her, just taking the dish up three times showed her the pattern--growl, food is removed. Food comes back 15 minutes later--growl, food is removed. Third time, oops, I better not growl, better just eat this and behave myself! If you wait longer than 15 minutes or so between giving the food again, it will be harder for the dog to see the pattern and forget what did he do that caused you to remove the food.

However, don't try this one yet. My dog wouldn't have thought of actually biting me, so it was very safe for me to confront her and take her food away. You can't be sure yet with your dog of winning this battle, so don't set it up. This was not something I did in the very beginning.

Our special edge with dogs is the ability to plan ahead and stack the deck in our own favor! It is in the dog's best interest too, because the clearer you make the message, the faster he will learn and with the least stress on him. He's been through a lot recently and he needs time to settle down.

Once he is calm about having people approach him when he is eating, have everyone in the household (EXCEPT YOUR TODDLER) occasionally approach his dish during his meal and drop in something even nicer than what he has in the dish already. That will also help condition him that anyone approaching his dish is good news!

Additionally, I would think twice about treat-training this dog around other dogs. It might bring out the worst in him. He can probably be taught a reward system for your praise--he seems to already value that-- petting and maybe a tennis ball game. Drop the ball from the vicinity of your face for him to catch in his mouth, always three to five times in a row. He'll love it and this will direct his eyes to your face.

At other times, give him lots of fetching games with tennis balls, keeping the throws low enough that he does not jump up and come down on just his hind legs--devastating potential for injuries there. The exercise will help him stay more mellow and his ball drive for catching the ball as a reward will be increased by the happy expression of his probably considerable prey drive in chasing the ball. Fetching the ball to you will increase lots of good stuff in his temperament too. It's a very healthy and productive game to play with a dog.