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From Auburn school of vet medicine and Merck Vet manual ...

Discussion in 'Dogs - all breeds / types' started by ilovemaltipoos, May 19, 2004.

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  1. ilovemaltipoos

    ilovemaltipoos New Member

    Here are a few links I got from the vet school in Auburn .These are on Parvo and on alternative medicines .Just thought to let you see some of their links

    http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index ... _24100.htm



    and


    http://www.canismajor.com/dog/altern1.html

    this one has some excerpts from Dr Wynn's book on nosdoes and that she does not believe they will prevent illness ,that the tests so far have not been good in that and the upper one is one parvo .I hope I typed the links correctly ,if not let me know and i will get them again
    the last one has other links too and again ,please talk to your vet .

    and

    http://www.canismajor.com/dog/barf.html


    this is about the Barf diet and how now they are beginning to find some problems and not all is good wwth it or bad with it ...anyway here it is
     
  2. loves-da-pits

    loves-da-pits New Member

  3. Jamiya

    Jamiya New Member

    From the first page linked to above:

    A healthy, non-immune compromised puppy should be able to beat a parvo infection. Any pup less than 8 weeks old, if properly cared for, should not come in contact with the virus to begin with, so one vaccination at an appropriate age with no further boosters will suffice.

    A shelter pup with parvo is another matter. At that point, all you can do is provide medical care and hope he rallies. I would imagine that a shelter (or the pups dumped at Sams' house) qualifies as a high-risk environment, so go ahead and vaccinate. That doesn't mean that a well-bred pup in the hands of a GOOD breeder needs all these poisons.


    Your article also opened with this statement:

    I would need to look it up (I do not have time right now but I will try later), but I'm fairly certain that parvo originated from distemper vaccinations that were improperly cultured. In other words, WE CAUSED THIS DISEASE. Nice, eh?


    As far as dangers of raw diets - well, EVERYTHING has potential risk. I know a person whose son fell off the couch when he was 3 years old and is now paralyzed. Do you think we should ban couches? No. Accidents happen.

    The BARF diet that was quoted in your article above is NOT the diet of a wild dog. A wild dog would not eat cottage cheese and yogurt, for example. A diet that has too many of these components detracts from the REAL nutrients that a dog needs. Veggies and yogurt are fine for treats, but they should not make up a significant portion of a dog's diet.

    The article also mentioned how salmonella and e. coli is present in some meats (or CAN be present, is more correct). But it failed to emphasize that even if it is, most dogs will not have a problem with it. Their digestive tracts are shorter and more acidic than ours. Also, once again, the bottom line is that a HEALTHY immune system can combat most germs it comes in contact with, so we will never even be able to tell if the dog was infected.

    Did you know that about heartworms? That a dog can become infected, fight them off, and become immune without you ever knowing about it?

    Ever read about dogs getting e. coli from kibble? Ever read the articles listing which major food brands were found to contain the drug that is used to euthanise pets?

    The test of looking at your dog and seeing if it LOOKS healthy is deceiving. Your dog can eat Dog Chow and possibly LOOK healthy right up until the day he gets kidney disease. Then he won't look so healthy anymore. But because that is 10 years down the road and people have trouble seeing connections that aren't immediately in front of their noses, no one associates the crap your dog has been eating for the past decade with his current host of problems. "Oh, he's just an old dog."

    Did you read the article on cats, and how in 1970 cats were rarely getting any of these diseases, but as they became more popular as pets and are now receiving the same vet care and eating the same crap that dogs are, they are now more UNhealthy and catching up to dogs with heartworms, kidney disease, etc? Interesting, isn't it? Think about it for a while.

    Again, I'm not sure why you can't leave this topic alone. Vaccinate for parvo and distemper in puppies. Comply with rabies laws. Annual boosters are not necessary. Sheesh.


    Jamiya
     
  4. puggleowner

    puggleowner New Member

    Thanks Sams for catching that-- I was thinking of a completely different term. Oops! Too early for me still. Anyway, my bad- disregard the post!!
     
  5. Samsintentions

    Samsintentions New Member

    I thought Touche' was a good thing. Meaning well done????

    I might be wrong here.


    ANYHOW:

    Great information! I learned alot of things I didn't know!!!

    thanks sooo much!
     
  6. loves-da-pits

    loves-da-pits New Member

    Yes, I meant it in a GOOD way. ilovemaltipoos has had an opinion about this all along. On the other thread all I was reading was one side of the coin. It made it hard to determind what was the right way to provide preventative medicine. Thanks ilove. for taking the time to research and find the info. I notice the same came up in your findings about certain dogs being more proned to parvo. I found the same info in other articles. Sence I have one of those breeds specified, I'm especially interested in reading what I can.
     
  7. Jamiya

    Jamiya New Member

    Yes, there are definitely breeds more prone to parvo. These puppies should be protected in some way - vaccines, nosodes, or not letting them be exposed. If you suspect parvo, get the pup in to a vet right away!

    However, I don't think it is a risk beyond puppyhood. I'm certain I read that parvo is no big deal in a healthy adult dog. Can anyone verify that? If I don't get some real work done, my boss will not be happy.


    Jamiya
     
  8. ilovemaltipoos

    ilovemaltipoos New Member

    I had read it all before ,I just had to remember where .I knew it was in an article from Auburn University so ,I just went back and looked until I found it .Thanks guys !
     
  9. charmedagain

    charmedagain New Member

    Hi, I would just like to add all unvaccinated dogs and puppies are at risk of contracting parvo, distemper and all other known viruses some never go on to show any signs of the virus but become carriers these are the dogs with a high immunity.

    My friend who has rottweilers had his dogs vaccinated even had the yearly booster and his 2 dogs still caught the parvo-virus which he was shocked about.

    My cousin refuses to vaccinate and her dogs have come into contact with dogs with both distemper and parvo and have not contracted the disease blood cultures showed that they were already immune to the virus.

    I have to agree if you suspect any virus then a vet should be seen ASAP the sooner they are seen by a vet the better chance of survival.

    What most vets fail to tell people is that once a puppy or a dog has been exposed to the viruses and treated they become carriers of the virus and if these animals become run down neglected or malnourished the virus can actually attack again.

    Glad to say all my dogs are vaccinated and i would not have them any other way i use a proper parvo and distemper disenfectant to clean the yard there toys bowls and so on just to make sure all stays well for my babies.

    As for raw feeding i dont agree in feeding raw foods but each owner is different and like everything else there is risks when buying puppy or dog food or any animal food for that matter you have noway of knowing if there is something in the food that has contaminated it which in turn causes a sick animal.
    Nothing is 100% safe in this world.

    mike

    mike
     
  10. ilovemaltipoos

    ilovemaltipoos New Member

    Although that particular article from merck says they are not sure where Parvo came from ,the widely accepted is from the cat version of Parvo .I read the stats and the article in a medical book in the vets office .When I go back I will get the link to that article also .
    You are right charmed ...dogs can and do carry the virus for long periods of time .To tell you the truth ,vets are learning more each day about it and are just as mystified by it sometimes as we are .They just keep working to find the solutions .I for one am proud they do .
     
  11. Jamiya

    Jamiya New Member

    I am also proud of vets who are working to find solutions. I just think a lot of them are looking in the wrong places. Sometimes a totally new approach is needed.


    Jamiya
     
  12. kindness_001

    kindness_001 New Member

    I second that Sam , thanks ilove for the info.
     
  13. ilovemaltipoos

    ilovemaltipoos New Member

    Well..Dr Phillips called me back today and his information was pleasant to hear .(his pictrue and parts of his article on the rabies post by I think Bullylove on page 6 ?)
    We had a long disscussion and he is also sending me some information to give all of you .
    He says preventive shots are a must ,food has nothing to do with preventing parvo ,shots should start at 6 weeks ,and given the routine ,then at least at 1 and 2 yrs old (he said 2 to be on the safe side ) and every 2 to 3 years after that .he says the most danger comes from undervaccination more than from over vaccination .He agrees that raw food is just as good a preventor of parvo hanging on the door as to feed .my flippant remark ,he got a good laugh and agreed totally .
    He also says a dog /puppy that is taken to shows or other places where there are lots of dogs should get shots starting at 6 weeks and every couple weeks after that until they are 5 to 6 months old ,then the boosters .he says as in the polio vaccine and others ,including parvo fro dogs that the prevenative medicine has had profound affects and should not be ceased ,only that he believes and do some others we can over vaccinate in later years .He says his article was written a long time ago and was a 'shock and awe 'campaign to other vets and was never meant to be turned over to the public at large .He said it was over kill to get the attention of the vet world .he says to say that foods or not to give shots at all is a false and a danger to our canine friends and that he would NEVER want to be put in that spere and his article used in that manner .
    he also says that I am actually the first layman to ever call him with my concerns as to how he thought or wrote years ago and that he respected that in me .He said vets have called him and wanted one on one time but never a just person like me .He says he truly believes we can and do overvaccinate ,but not to vaccinate is the wrong way to go .he also states that he has been misquoted alot and some have used parts of his paper to their personal beliefs and is not the story of the whole .
    He also said when he reads of no vaccinations at all or only one or two it shocks him and frightens him for our canine friends saftey .
    I applaud Dr . Phillips ,he was interseted and concerned and very adamant about getting preventative meds ...I will add more when he e-mails it to me ... :eek: Please remember ...all it takes is a phone call ...
     
  14. Jamiya

    Jamiya New Member

    *sigh* Does anybody understand anything they read? Of COURSE food does not prevent parvo. Nobody said it does! But good nutrition contributes to a healthy immune system. A healthy immune system does not PREVENT parvo, but it can help to either not contract the disease even when exposed to it, or to fight it off if you do get it.

    Sheesh. Concept, people. Strenghtening the immune system is ALWAYS a good idea. And I would never go to ANY vet that doesn't believe a strong immune system is the fastest way to good health.


    Jamiya
     
  15. Samsintentions

    Samsintentions New Member

    Well food does play a big part in preventing Parvo. A good source of diet is essential toany animal. Strengthens immune system and keeps the dog healthy and strog. A poorly fed dog isn't going to be as healthy as a well fed dog, thus makes his body not as strong, and more likly to have trouble fighting off the disease.

    Every aspect of a dogs life from food, to water, to vaccinations, to lifestyle and genetics of the dog contributes to how a dog will handle a disease!
     
  16. ilovemaltipoos

    ilovemaltipoos New Member

    Any food helps ,one that is starvng will more than apt die anyway ,of something ,may not even be parvo .What Dr phillips said and I tried to say is ...Does not matter if it is kibble ,raw or any other food ,doesn't keep it away .What you don't understand is a good diet always prommotes better health ,but with illnesses such as parvo ,not going to make that much of a difference ,the healthy die with the unhealthy just the same .
    He said parvo (1978 ) just started when he got out of school .he said he walked into the world and thought I can tame it ,I can ,I can ... then ,he said ....'so much death ,so many ,we didn't have a vaccine ,parvo was rampant ,I came down to earth really fast ,parvo brought me down quie a few notches ' '
    parvo is not the flu ,it is not a cold ,you do not pretreat with a diet ,you can help by feeding the vitamins and nutrients they need ,choice of food is yours , but you cannot tame it without a vaccine ,not all live ,it is the most painful and ....lord I do not know how to explain it ...it takes your heart and their bodies and twists them and you into another world ,a world of pain that only they could tell of .They clamp their mouths shut ,almost like lockjaw ,blood comes from the bowels and you can see the fight and struggle with each breath as they vomit blood and mucus ,they whimper ,little moans ,you can barely hear but you know .They cannot lift the head ,open the mouth but the eyes ....oh my lord the eyes ....now there is really where you see the agony .The eyes implore you to help them ,to stop it ,you try ,over and over you try ,you win ,you lose .You NEVER forget ,you remember all and you can no longer feel ,cause another one beside that one needs you now .I have been there ,seen that ,felt that .
    parvo KILLS ,now I am going to give the shots ...
     
  17. Jamiya

    Jamiya New Member

    Maltipoos, you keep talking about puppies. What about adult dogs? An adult dog with a healthy immune system should not have any trouble with parvo. Shelter puppies should get the vaccine. ALL puppies should have limited exposure as much as possible.

    One more thing I'd like to say, and then I think everyone has enough info and places to look for more info to make their own decisions that are right for their families.

    You can't take an unvaccinated pup that gets parvo and PROVE it would not have had parvo if it were vaccinated. And you can't take a vaccinated dog and PROVE that if it hadn't been vaccinated, it would have had parvo. There's no way to tell.

    What you CAN do is look at cats 30 years ago. None of them were getting degenerative and autoimmune diseases. Then when people started feeding them kibble and getting them shots every year, voila! Now they are.

    And you can look at dogs in Australia 30 years ago, before kibble became popular in that country. Dogs didn't need dental cleanings and weren't getting all the autoimmune and degenerative diseases that they are now. And then kibble became popular and, voila! Now they are.

    Then you take those same dogs and start feeding them raw and limiting exposure to drugs and, voila! They no longer get these diseases.

    So tell me. With all the advances in veterinary medicine in the past 30-40 years, WHY ARE OUR PETS GETTING LESS HEALTHY? Why? If you can find another reason, then please share it. For me, it makes too much sense to ignore the correlation.

    In the meantime, for my family I choose good nutrition and minimal drugs.


    Jamiya
     
  18. ilovemaltipoos

    ilovemaltipoos New Member

    I wasn't just talking about puppies ,In the early 80's we lost all of our family pets and our neighbors also did .Some were 3 ,4 and 8 yrs old .
    When I talk now about parvo it is to protect my puppies and of recent cases I have seen .2 years ago a girl I know ,lives just a couple miles from me lost 2 adult poms to parvo .
    One was about a yr old and the other about 10 months old .
    As I said parvo is not a cold ,it can hit anytime ,anywhere .
    And if anyone wants anymore info ,I will call another vet and another and another and give them links till all they see is links .There is never too much to know ,it is ow you digest it is when each individual has had enough ...
    good Luck ...give those babies you got a hug from me .
     
  19. loves-da-pits

    loves-da-pits New Member

    charmedagain: Rottweilers were one of the breeds that are predisposed for getting parvo and has less of a chance for recovery.

    My question is: Being that we MAY all be over vaccinating, has anyone got any info as to whether the "at risk" dogs should get boosters each year, or if the titer test are accurate enough to determind if there are antibodies present to ward off the parvovirus after initial vaccinations? Also, as these dogs mature and get older, does the immune system become more susceptible to getting the parvovirus? Do we get titer test each year before we decide to vaccinate or not.

    I've tried hit an miss to look up info, but haven't found anything about preventative measures for these at risk dogs. Just plenty of sites stateing that they are.

    Just in case you're wondering, the at risk dogs are:
    1. Rottweiler
    2. Doberman Pinscher
    3. German Shepard
    4. American Pit Bull Terriors

    Pretty much black and tan breeds. Then they go on to say small breeds are less susceptible. So, where does that put the Yorkie and the Chi?

    This topic has been going on for a couple of days, now, and I found out things that really concern and confuses me. So if any of you are doing any follow-up research and runs into anything pertaining to, make a note and let me know since I have one these at risk breeds. My dogs are pretty much grown. Reese is over a year old now and just recieved his boosters a few weeks ago. Grace will have her boosters in August. I just would like to know since the are A.P.B.T. if I should continue with boosters or do titer tests each year.a
    Sorry for the paranoid rambelings.
     
  20. ilovemaltipoos

    ilovemaltipoos New Member

    I talked to Dr phillips about those that were high risk and those areas that were high risk .he said for a least the first 2 years ,then have a titer check,but he said in high risk dogs and areas more would apt be needed .If I were you ,I would just have a long talk with my vet or call Dr.
    Phillips even .he would return your call .He is a very nice person and very concered that his article may have led to wrong beliefs .He says overvaccinating is not as bad as undervaccinating ,now alot of vets are going to the every 2 to three years shots ,he says that he can take credit for that and is happy ,but is very unhappy with no shots at all or only one or two and recommneds in higher risk areas and dogs more to be given .As I said he was very talkative and helpful . He is sending me some more info on it .I don't know where yorkie and chis are in this ,but I would say in the middle .
     
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