help me decide on my next breed..

Ok, Annie's dad and I are starting early..in about a year or so, we will have room for another dog..since I picked Annie without consulting Annie's dad first, it's his turn to pick a pup, but I certainly get a say..lol
We love pit bulls, but we're thinking of getting another breed.
The ones we're interested in right now are:
Doberman
Presa Canario
Boxer
German Shepherd(ok..this is all me..shepherds will always be near and dear to my heart)

If not the first year we have it, but maybe the next year, we will be on a farm...I need a dog that's respectful of horses..Annie's dad also loves protection breeds. So we're open to other breeds as well, we're in the research phase..I'd love to hear what you have to say about these dogs or any others you think might me a good match. Since we'll be in Texas, it has to handle heat well, even though it will be an indoor dog..I work outdoors and it will be with me most of the time.

 

Personally I think a Dobie would be good, they seem to be able to handle the heat a little better than Boxers and better than GSD's, just as long as you get one from a good breeder that doesnt have the skittish personality in the line, generally they are good, sound dogs, great protectors, I always think of them as the classic 'clown dog'. I too love German Shepherds and I think that 'in general' they are great 'pack' dogs, accepting any other lifeform as its own when its grown up around them.
Boxers I like but they dont seem to handle the heat too well although their personalities are great and are very stable.
Presa Canarios I dont know much about so I couldnt say.
Rotts are awesome, probably wouldnt get over-excited around the horses and spook them but again dont handle the heat too well.
I do like Weimeraners though, seem to do okay in the heat but usually need a 'little guidance' as to how to behave, once they know what you want from them theyre 'happy to go along with it.'
Like I said this is just my thoughts on the breeds based on my own experiences with them.

 

HEY where's the Boerboel on your list?

Presa's can be VERY dominant and can be tough to handle in terms of protection breeds... I'm not sure how they deal with livestock and property... I know Boerboels stick to their house and property and are respectfull of everything and everyone on it... They're pretty smart...

Dobe's I'd figure you'll have a really hard time finding one that is still working quality for farm life and the same with GSD's...no offense becauase I like them too...

I'd look towards Cane Corso's or Boerboel's rather than Presa's though. JMO

 

Thanks guys!
Sara-Presas are on there because Annie's dad met one here in town and absoutley feel in love..it was a really nice looking dog. But yes, you're right, for the livestock, I've got to get him looking at the Corsos and of course Boerboels. How do they handle the heat? That may determine if we can even think about a mastiff or if we need a lighter bodied dog.

 

Someday, have you seen cattledoglovers recent post on her dogs, they are working dogs and I think she has 2 cane corso as working dogs, and kelpies and gereat pics of them. she just posted them last week,, take a look.

honeybear

 

Boerboels are south african farm dogs...so the heat is pretty much what they're bred to handle... The pigment and everything about them is basically in order to deal with the heat and work at the same time...

Harris Boerboels are some that work with cattle and whatnot and do well.. He's in OK but is hard to purchase from...

Cane Corsos I'm not sure about...and you'd need to probably get Boerboels from some imported lines rather than the newer US ones...lighter bodied etc... Mine tend to figure out how to deal with the heat...dig into cool ground for a bit...but they aren't affected by it like other breeds might be... They're bred for farm work so accept whatever they are around as puppies. My own dogs haven't seen much in terms of livestock but on the occasional trips to visit the horses they do okay...

If you want a dog that deals with livestock I'd look into drovers etc... Boerboels, Rotts, Cane Corsos are good for that...as are some of the others... GSD's, Boxers, and Dobies are likely to be a bit on the Hyper side for it... The Boerboels and Cane Corso's are not exactly "mastiff" in terms of laying around drooling all day... They are hyper in their own way and trainable...and accepting when socialized correctly... They can handle guarding from people AND other animals which is also a plus.

 

Ok..i'm considering Corso's and Boerboels pretty seriously now...So Cattledoglover and Sara, sorry for the million questions, but I gotta figure out what I want.

Since i have horses, and will be giving lessons, I don't want a dog that will herd them while people are on them, even if out of control...that's a huge liability for me..I think it would be great if I had a dog that could bring them up from pasture...I had an instructor with a German Shepherd that did that and it was great, but can I have it both ways? Because if I had to choose, I'd choose no herding whatsoever, simply because I can't afford a lawsuit if someone gets dumped while on their horse or one of mine.

 

I know with the Boerboels they'd probably go get the horses and would learn after being taught that a running horse isn't what the goal is... Boerboels are pretty smart and tend to catch on quickly so if you have th dog under control in OB there shouldn't be an issue... NOW if a Horse attacked you or a student on your property...THEN you'd have to really worry about a Boerboel getting in the middle of that...

Are you bringing in horses from out in the pasture that are boarders? If so I would nix the herding idea all together with even the herding breeds... JUST because it opens that window for someone to take advantage of if they so choose... Ya know? IF they're yours but boarders horses are there on the farm...being ridden etc...then that's a whole different issue you see?

This is an anecdote about a Boerboel who was imported...he was 6 when he was brought to the US...he wasn't a farm dog but a guardian...but this should illustrate how controllable they truly are when you are the alpha:

Butch came from South Africa where he was not socialized much and gained a bit of an infamous name around at the appraisals because he was penned separately and lunged at the fence anytime it was approached by someone other than his owners... My friend got him from the Airport and he was QUITE docile likely from the stress... Anyway he was in Country for about 2 months when she took him to his first dog show...there was a Bitch in heat there too and she knew it would be difficult. He showed fine...but at the end of his series of shows they were approached by the ring steward and he LUNGED at her...she was acting offensively towards Rayna via body language and to Butch she looked to be threatening her... After she stepped away and dropped what she was carrying...Butch calmly sat at Rayna's side... Later that day he bit a bystander who reached over top of his head to pet him and didn't ask permission first... THIS is classical behavior that is correct but caused to be dangerous because of lack of training and socialization... Butch did bark and lunge at visitors when he was in his pen... This was just about a year ago... Soooo Rayna's been working to combat this behavior in a LARGE older dog raised and rather set in his ways... NOW when visitors come he sits and lets them pet him...scrunches up to the fence for it... He can be handled by strangers but is still leary of threats. He understands when to act and when not to and has successfully been integrated into American Culture from his South African one... He's now trustworthy and calm etc... Rayna did nothing but general corrections for un-desirable behavior and low and behold...he came around beautifully and is no longer a little off keel here in the US and a great citizen... It only took a few months to get this behavior...

Riot too...he hates other dogs and will lunge at them when he's cornered in his crate at dog shows (VERY stressfull events for guardians) and one correction is all it takes for the rest of the day...

The Boerboels are the easiest dogs I've encountered when it comes to directing behavior (once matured)...as a puppy any breed you pick will need to be leashe before he/she learns what's what and who to chase and who not to... I'm not sure how Docile Cane Corso's are in this feild but Boerboels are easily called off of what they are doing by their handler...and will respond quickly to even just vocal corrections...

Hope I didn't frighten you away at all but the reality is that they are serious dogs but are VERY controllable and trainable for anything. Accepting of MOST things etc... BUTCH would have never acted this way had he been raised in the US. South Africa is VERY different in how they train and treat their dogs... They need a serious guardian not just something to have around just in case.

 

Nope..I will not be boarding horses. If I am, it will only be ones there for training, which I won't turn out with my own. so that's not a problem.
If a horse is attacking anyone, I would be grateful for the dog to step in...I'm more so worried if a horse gets slightly out of control...and there's always those screamer students...you can tell them and tell them that yelping is only going to make a situation worse, but they do it anyways when they get suprised..That's what I'm worried about...a horse kicking up his heels, someone yelps, and the dog takes off after the horse...that would be a nightmare...lol..but I suppose it could always be called back..since they're so smart...do you think it would be possible to teach them something like they should never enter the arena? Because that would take care of pretty much anything i'm worried about right there.

 

Lots of ways to teach dogs boundaries like that... Any breed really... With the Guardian breeds you basically need to teach them what is okay and what isn't. As a puppy while you are teaching to keep out of the Arena you will also be teaching he dog to tolerate the yelping students... THAT way he/she will be more apt to understand a real threat as opposed to one that is not real...in this instance...

Like with Butch the woman in question was handing over Rayna's paperwork...she was moving too quickly and if she'd had a knife the bystanders would have all viewed her behavior as a threat too... He just didn't realize that in that setting...a threat is not always a "threat"... He's a good American dog these days though...LOL... Not sure if that made sense...but they are meant to learn and change what they will perceive as a threat based on the OWNERS experience... If you haven't already check out my site and the About page...about the breed... and buyer information... You'll get a bit of a picture from that too...

Cattledogperson (can't remember handle) chime in anytime about the Cane Corso's... They're close to my heart too...but don't know much about their basic personality... I do beleive they might be a bit more dominant than the Boerboels... You'll be tested by the dog no matter what breed...I know the Boerboels learn quickly who's alpha and don't forget it easily either...(new people don't count)... So...about the Corso's???

 

My Shepherds were just AWESOME around our horses, pot belly pig, goats, cats, you name it. As was mentioned before, a German Shepherd will almost always accept any animal or livestock as long as they understand that animal is also a part of the family - not an intruder. Our Shepherds would follow the horses around as they were being ridden in the arena, but in no way could it be thought of as "chasing." They did very well in the heat, too. If they got too hot, they just found some shade to lay down in. But most of the time they were always around us. That's just how Shepherds are - they live to be with their owners. Devotion and loyalty come so completely naturally to them. They never chased the horses either - even when we turned the horses loose to exercise. I've owned lots of breeds, but I have to say that the German Shepherd is the most intelligent I've ever been around. They will figure out what you want, and what you lifestyle is, and accept it as their own. Anything their beloved master does, they will share. They are wonderful guardians, yet are truly gentle with any household pets or livestock you might own. I don't know about chickens, since we didn't have any, but I think most breeds would naturally "go" for chickens unless taught otherwise. German Shepherds included. As far as having the "ideal" dog around livestock, I think Shepherds should rank among the highest. I would give a positive vote for the Boxer as well (ours is perfect with the horses) but its true that they do have more trouble with the heat than some other breeds.

 

my personal Favorite breed is the boader collie..i love them my Buffy is boarder collie huskey...and i think a boarder collie would do well on the farm..=)

 

For Herders I'd go with the ACD myself... Not sure about the Guardian capabilities because they're smaller...but I know they'll defend what they need to...

Might want to Email Sams if you are curious about those guys... I plan on getting one when we have an open spot for a dog...JUST for the horses.

 

IMO what your looking for you'll find in a Corso, Borboel, ACD..ect...but each do individualy is what your going to have to look at. I'm going to try my hand at raising bb's in the farm life. I'll letcha know how it goes.

But with ANY breed, with what your wanting to do, and I do it...so your getting it first hand. You'll need EXTENSIVE training. I'm not talking your everyday, OB, and trail and hand training....I'm talking full blown.
It can get quite expensive, though one way i keep all Libality at a minimum is by penning my dogs when lessons and training are being done.

You can not expect even the most well trained canine not to make a mistake and be a dog....yes they all have fall backs too.

I would highly reccomend you look away from the heeler though with you already having a pit... for the simple reason that they can be a pest to other dogs, and have tendacies for dog agression, that put with Annie could lead to disaster. Not that it WOULD ever happen, but its likely.

Most all my dogs had some sort of dog agression. Smokey is at a high, but controlable. Now with his condition, its extreme and we're taking extreme measures other than having him PTS....long story...

But any how.
Finding a good GSD without hip problems and still in the working lines, can be difficult. THen again most are going to be difficult to find...Most dogs now are being bred for show or family pets. I know I'm one of the rarer ones for having TRUE working dogs....along with the few others I know.

Most will promote their dogs as COMING from working lines, but the dogs for 3 gen back haven't shown or proven a thing.

Take your time.....seriously.....and good luck!

 

Thanks for all of your replies..
Yes, unfortunately..I will have to rule the GSD out...I had/have one(he lives with my mom...they are inseperable), and he is the most wonderful dog..talk about smart. But the breed is so plagued with health problems that it would be a very hard to find one that was sound enough for work.
Sams- please let me know how the BB goes..I'm serioudly considering them...and I would never expect a dog to be 100% failproof, dogs, human, horses..they all have off days and all have instincts that training can control, but will not get rid of...and I will do everything possible to limit liability. Since I don't have much experience with the breed or with herding training I will definetely be working with a trainer(that's a whole new search in itself..huh?)..so i'm not looking for the "perfect dog", I;m in it for the long haul and plan on putting quite a bit of work into it..so that hopefully what I choose can become the dog that is perfect for my lifestyle and needs.

 

im not an expert..heh...so what does BB mean and GSD?....lol....i can tell breeds apart and what not but i don't knowwhat the abrevs. mean..=)..so if anyone could tell that would great so im not lost...=)

 

BB=Beorbeols
GSD= German Shepherd (Dog)

Dont worry I thought I knew all the abbreviations but theres a few Ive seen in here that I had to go and look up in a book.

 

here is another question for ya..why did they change the name of the German Sheperd...when did they add Dog to the end of that..i noticed it hwen i was watching the akc ukanuba dog show

 

German Shepherd Dog is a literal translation from Deutsche (German) Schäfferhund (shepherd-dog), as far as I know the word 'dog' has always been a part of the name but it's often left out in the English language. During the second world war the breed was used extensively by the British for 'army duties' and the dogs became popular there however the name was changed to Alsatian as they didnt think it would do well with the word German in the name, I think Alsatia is where the breed originally came from, which is in France now but at the time may have been a German province. (not 100% on that though). In the late 70's the name was 'officially' changed back to German Shepherd Dog by the UKC.