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HELP!!!!! Worst possible scenario just occurred, need advice

Discussion in 'Fish and Aquarium - all types' started by gravity, Nov 11, 2004.

  1. gravity

    gravity New Member

    I bought 4 mollies that came down with ich within 15 hours of my putting them in my 29 gallon gourami tank. I was buying them to get fry to feed to my African cichlids, so I got 3 pregnant females and 1 male. When they came down with ich, I transferred them to my 2 gallon fry tank which had been empty. Well, of course, one of my pregnant mollies just gave birth and pretty much died immediately after. Most of the fry were already dead as well. I still have at least 3 fry in that tank with 3 ich infested mollies and dead fry sitting at the bottom of the tank that I can't get to without emptying the tank. Dah! This is horrible!

    What do I do? If I move the live fry to my gourami tank, even if they don't get eaten won't they infect my gouramis with ich? If I leave them in a 2 gallon with 3 adults that I'm trying to treat for ich and has uneaten food and other ammonia producing materials at the bottom, what are the odds that they'll survive anyway?

    If I move the adult mollies, I almost definitely infect the gouramis with ich. If I move the fry, they probably get eaten AND infect my gouramis with ich. If I leave the fry in that tank, then I can't treat the adults with ich medicine without probably killing the fry AND they're in a very dirty tank right now. It appears I'm in a lose/lose/lose situation.

    Is there any way to save all my fish? What's my best course of action?
  2. t_chelle16

    t_chelle16 New Member

    What are the water parameters of that tank? My guess is with it being uncycled and with that many fish in it, they're not good and that's probaby part of why some of them died. You really need to get the dead fish out (the rotting bodies will just make things worse). It would also be nice if you could get them into a larger tank with a cycled filter. If you have a spare HOB filter, you could take a little filter media from your other tank and it should instantly cycle the hospital tank.

    Side note: What kinds of africans do you have (mbuna or haps/peacocks)?

  3. gravity

    gravity New Member

    The 2 gallon was cycled for a week before any fish went into it, and the adults were only in that tank for about 36 hours. I didn't even notice the fry until I did a waterchange after I saw the dead adult. I've been trying to get the dead fry out, but they're UNDER the gravel.

    I've used my net, my hands, and my gravel vacuum and none of them can get to the dead fish. The only way to do it is to completely empty the tank out, but I have no place to put the fish because of the ich.

    The Africans are Mbunas.
  4. grnlemonade

    grnlemonade New Member

    well, for a tank to be COMPLETELY cycled, they say it takes about 6-8 weeks. did you at least use any chemicals that could ahve helped the process a little?
  5. M_wm

    M_wm New Member

    Africans dont need to eat feeders do they?
  6. grnlemonade

    grnlemonade New Member

  7. t_chelle16

    t_chelle16 New Member

    No they don't. And if they're mbuna, it could actually kill them (too much protein --> malawi bloat).

  8. gravity

    gravity New Member

    My Africans don't get feeders very often. They've only had feeders twice in the 3 months that I've had them, and only before I skipped a day of feeding. I've been trying to mix their diet between shrimp pellets, Cichlid Gold pellets, earthworms, feeders, and I might add some bloodworms pretty soon. The only thing I'm unsure about is fruit/veggies. I have a pleco in that tank and was going to try some zucchini for him, so I was getting ready to do some research on anything in that same vein would work for the cichlids. My hunch is that they won't go for it, though.

    At this point, I've decided to keep the fry in the smaller tank and do half treatments of Rid Ich. It's just not worth the risk of exposing my gouramis and red-tailed shark to ich, even though the fry are quite cute.

    As for the cycling of the 2 gallon, the original plan was to let it cycle indefinitely until fry showed up and it became a FRY ONLY tank, but the ich ruined that idea. I saw the ich on the mollies and not on the gouramis, and rushed to get the mollies out of my 29 gallon since they had only been in the tank for about 15 hours and were NOT visibly infected when I put them in. I was afraid to mix any other chemicals with the Rid Ich, especially with such a small tank and already in a bio overload with 4 mollies in a 2 gallon. As sad as it is, I'd much rather have the mollies go out like this than to lose my whole 29 gallon aquarium to an ich infection. My only other option would be to take the mollies back to the LFS, which I will probably do if the LFS lets me.

    This is depressing.
  9. t_chelle16

    t_chelle16 New Member

    Again, what kind of africans do you have (common or scientific names)? If they're mbuna, what you're giving them is not a very good diet. Too much protein can be deadly (I've heard of people giving mbuna a couple blood worms one day and having dead fish a few days later). They need a veggie-based diet. My mbuna mainly get spirilina pellets. Then just for a little bit of variety, I throw in a few goldfish pellets and any other food I can find that contains less than 35% protein. And maybe once every few months I'll throw in some frozen (but thawed) mixed veggies like peas, carrots, green beans, etc. But most of what they get is spirilina.

    Really, a 2 gallon is too small to cycle because it doesn't keep a steady enough environment. If you want to breed mollies, a 10 gallon would be much better to raise the fry in. They'd grow faster and be healthier. You probably would be better off just returning them to the LFS.

  10. gravity

    gravity New Member

    I have, in a 55g, 2 Kennyis, 1 Auratus, 2 Blue Cobalt, and another mbuna that I do not know the name of, as well as 1 Jewel that I tried to give to 3 different stores and was told at all of them that they could not take him because they already had too many Jewels and/or because he was coming from a private tank. I can't return him to the place where I bought him because that store had horrible tank conditions when I went back to ask about it. I figured he's better off with mismatched tankmates in my tank than in a tank with 2 dead Jewels in it.

    The staple of their diet is Wardley shrimp pellets with 30% crude protein, mixed with twice weekly brine shrimp, and they also usually eat the algae wafers I throw in for my pleco. They go crazy for the brine. The earthworms were fed once, and like I said, the feeders were fed to them only twice. They didn't go for the Cichlid Gold pellets at all, which are 40% crude protein. It sounds to me like I can't be the cheapskate I truly want to be and feed them homegrown fry.

    This is my first attempt at keeping cichlids, and must admit that most of the reading I've done was not based on what to feed them. It seems so obvious now that I should've looked at that, but I took what the LFS told me and applied it. Any advice from someone who knows what they're talking about, which includes all 3 of you, is welcomed and will supercede any advice I get from the stores. I want my fish to be happy and healthy, despite my inexperience.

    I'll forget about the feeders, and I guess drop the brine shrimp once what I've got is gone. And no more worms.... I guess the best thing about the situation is that I haven't been feeding them this stuff all that much. Jeez. I never would have known if not for the ich problem!

    Thanks for the info.
  11. t_chelle16

    t_chelle16 New Member

    Happy to help.

    And if it makes you feel better, I knew absolutely nothing about africans when I got them. I just though "Look at all the pretty colors!" and bought a bunch to go in my 55 which already had 2 oscars. :shock:

    But I learned through lots of reading and some personal experience.

  12. gravity

    gravity New Member

    worst case scenario update, frustration

    Ok, I managed to cure the ich on 2 of the mollies, but the other two died. Even though I treated the 2 gallon tank with the Rid Ich+, one of the fry survived as well. Once I'd seen no indications of ich for 3 days, I moved the mollies back to my 29 gallon gourami tank and 2 days later one of the mollies had ich again! Fortunately I was able to clean out the 2 gallon of all the 'stuff' sitting on the bottom and do a water change without really affecting the lone fry. The other molly appears to be perfectly fine, now a day later, and none of the gouramis are having any problems.

    I'm pretty much resigned to never getting mollies again. LOL If I ever manage to get the molly healthy again, and the fry to grow a bit bigger, I think I'm just going to throw a betta in that 2 gallon, after I clean and recycle it.
  13. t_chelle16

    t_chelle16 New Member

    The ich parasite can stay alive for several days after the last spot disappears. That's why it's a good idea to treat for a full week after you no longer see spots.

    Plus, it's possible that when you first put the mollies in the 29 gallon, they introduced the ich, but you never saw it on the gouramis because their immune systems where strong. Then when you introduced the mollies again, it gave the ich a weakened host.

  14. gravity

    gravity New Member

    ack! I moved them early so that I wouldn't have to worry about them eating the last remaining fry. It's still only the one molly that has it, and she's very pregnant. I'm guessing that's why she's weaker.

  15. venom

    venom New Member

    well it could be worse........ :?

    isnt it great! im back! :mrgreen:

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