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Here we go again...

Discussion in 'Dogs - Pit bull breeds specific' started by BronxthePit, Oct 11, 2004.

  1. BronxthePit

    BronxthePit New Member

    I'm sure you've all heard the headline "Two pitbulls maul 9 year old"

    I saw it on the news last night. Get this.

    Someone gets a friend to watch their two pitbulls(partially 1st mistake), who has kids. That friend obviously allowed the pits to roam free in the house/yard(2nd mistake), and didn't crate them (3rd mistake). The friends son comes home and is home alone with friends in the backyard, with the pits( 4th mistake), one thing leads to another, the boy is dead.

    What is really sad is that the day before the boy died he told his mother (the friend) that he was scared of the dogs and they made him nervous.

    KEY SENTENCE (what will follow will most likely Pi$$ you off to):The mother does not blame the dogs or the dogs owners(D#@! STRAIGHT! SHE BETTER NOT BE!) but is just sadend at the lost of her son. She said they were good dogs.

    Through out the entire news cast how does the reporter label them?

    "The two VICIOUS PITBULLS"...they show the dogs and theyare the cutest thing in the dog pound truck, just licking the cage with their tails swinging away and smilin. What does the reporter have to say two more times(making it a total of 9 times) before his story is over ...."Vicious pitbulls!"

    makes me sick! even the friend said that they weren't mean and vicious..i swear. Its stupid mothers fault! she did say that she is heartbroken to have to tell the owners what happened. Because now their going to loose two CUTE dogs because she was an idiot!

    tsk tsk tsk

    people i was with who aren't big pit fans were like "Why do they keep saying that??? even the friend admits they werent'"..
  2. kyles101

    kyles101 New Member

    if the boy did not provoke the dogs then maybe they are viscious and maybe they do need to be pts. if unprovoked, it would have probably been someone elses kid somewhere down the track if its human aggressive.

    why were those mistakes? [apart from the 4th]. i dont see anything wrong with what she did. i would not expect anyone to crate my dog 24/7 unless she was a complete psycho, in which case she would not even exist. to be honest its no ones fault unless the boy provoked the attack. actually, if its anyones fault its the owners. they should have chosen who would take care of the dogs more wisely, and even though they are not there they are still responsible for the dogs bad habits. for example if my dog was not loo trained and went and soiled someones carpet i would take full responsibility as it is her natural behaviour and i wouldnt have trained her yet.

    saying viscious pitbull 9 times is a bit excessive though. i bet it was like counting 'ums' in peoples sentences! i wish the media would base the story on the individual dog, not the breed. theyd never do the same to a human who has commited a crime.
  3. spencerpits

    spencerpits New Member

    Judging by what happened (the dogs runnig loose, unsupervised with children, etc), I'd agree that the owner choosing this person to watch their dogs was their first mistake. Personally, if I were to go on vacation, I'd have my dogs boarded. The vet I use provides a boarding service, which I've used a couple of times, and have been very happy with. I also agree that allowing them to have free run of the house and yard, *when not supervised by an adult*, was the 2nd mistake. I'm not saying crate them 24/7, but when there is not a capable adult there to supervise the dogs, they need to be confined for both their own safety, as well as the safety of others (especially children). Of course, the dogs being with the children alone was the biggest mistake of all. I agree with Kyles101, that *if not provoked*, the dogs are viscious and need to be put to sleep. Further, even if they were "provoked", depending on what the actions were, the dogs still should not have reacted that way. Example, if the kids were pulling on his tail or ears or something, it shouldn't have reacted negatively towards them. It's just not in this breed's nature. But then again, I heard of one instance where a pit bull attacked a child. They put the dog to sleep, and at the owners' insistance (the dog never showed any aggreisive behavior before), they conducted an autopsy. It turns out that the child had crammed a crayon deep in the dog's ear, causing it severe pain. No matter the specifics, it is almost always the parent's fault in cases of child maulings. Of course, that's a sad reality that the parents have to deal with for the rest of their lives.
  4. MyPetTherapyDog

    MyPetTherapyDog New Member

    I agree with Spencer.
    I would never trust anyone other someone with tons of knowledge to watch my dogs. I usually don't go on vacation for this reason.
    I feel horrible for this family. What a terrible thing to happen. My sympathy goes out to the family.
  5. MaxKellyAST

    MaxKellyAST New Member

    On the basic facts of this story it sounds like to dogs were vicious and deserve to die. The owners should suffer some how as well. Dogs should not kill children, that is insane. Poor family. The mother is a victim of a terrible thing, its too bad that a simple mistake led to the death of her son, but I dont think its right to victimize the dogs in this situation. They sound like they were CURRS. I leave my dog and son together alone often and its because he is with her that I dont worry, not the other way around. I feel great knowing hes in the yard by himself if he is with her.
  6. GinaH

    GinaH New Member

    I also have to agree that if the dogs attacked and killed a child then the dogs should be pts. Evidentally they have some serious aggression problems. There is absolutely no excuse for what happened to that young boy and his family. My dogs are members of my family and I watch them play every day with my three children and I can honestly say I could never ever see one of my dogs harming one of my children or any child for that matter.
  7. elizavixen

    elizavixen New Member

    Do you two (max & gina) think that the dog should be pts if it had just bitten the child but not killed it?

    Just wondering b/c I think there is a big difference b/w dogs who attack to kill and those who bite b/c they are provoked and are scared or something. Like, maybe the dog was trying to get the kid to leave him alone and bit him and the bite hit a major artery or something and the kid died. I wouldn't consider a dog like that vicious or needing to be pts. If that makes sense.
  8. MaxKellyAST

    MaxKellyAST New Member

    I understand. I kept a pit bull female once for a friend who was moving an I agreed to find her a good home, since time was an issue for him.
    My son had just entered the terrible threes and was pretty darn rough.
    Every time she was laying on the floor and he got in the mood he would begin tormenting her, pulling ears, lips, legs and what not. She tolerated this very well as an APBT should and I corrected his behaivor when it became excessive. I think a boy and a dog need to establish their own boundries to a certain extent. One day he was making this brand of mischief, and not listening to me advising him against such action, he jumped down hard on her back while she was laying down and straddled her. She made a large growl and everso gently bit him on the cheek making a small scratch but nothing that broke the skin ( I know it hurt him though). This was a dog that could have literally broken his neck with a bite. I thank that dog to this day for teaching my son a lesson I couldnt, no matter how much finger pointing and swats I gave him, He now has a huge respect for dogs. This was a lesson I believe whole heartedly she gave him on purpose. She first demonstrated patience then controlled agression designed to communicate something to him. This dog and my son have an outstanding relationship to this day. Does that answer the question?
  9. Samsintentions

    Samsintentions New Member

    The way I see it, If the do bit the child in self defence and that bite (accidentally) killed the child, then it needs to be evaluated. But if the dogs viciously attacked the childed, Provoked or not. and mauled the child to death. THen there is a definate PTS. NO doubt about it.
    A dog should fear bite if being harmed. I don't disagree to that. A dog shouldn't just lay there and let kids or anything harm him....DUH> I wouldn't let someone hurt me! But it shouldn't continuously attack. A warning bite or snap, growl should have been all that was done.

    Honestly, since we don't know the ENTIRE story we can't make a judgement.

    If the dog bit once and it was a fatal bite, no the dog needs to be evaluated.
    But if it was several bites, and an all out attack, then yes PTS would be humane and the only alternative.

    my question is was it one or two pits???? Were they both involved or just one?

    Animalistic instinct would take over if it was two. Pure and simple. They are pack animals, hunt all that in the wild. SO I could see the excessiveness in the attack if it was two. But still, neither dog should have been involved.
  10. Samsintentions

    Samsintentions New Member

    And it was both owner and mothers fault.

    One, the owner should have chosen a more "dog knowlegeable friend"
    Two, the mother should have had enough sence to know to keep a "strange" dog supervised. Period. No matter how sweet it seemed, she did not know the dog. SHe did not live with it day in and day out.

    The owner should have left detailed instructions on how to care for them, and the mother should have followed EVERY instruction.

    OS in all, its both parties faults. All dog owners know that.
    Gina knows. I'm sure she doesn't let the fosters run around....She evaluates them, just as I do.
  11. BronxthePit

    BronxthePit New Member

    i didn't mean crate them 24/7 but definatly crate them with the person who was charged to watch them is not around. im not to sure on all those details....all i know is little unsupervised kids + big unsupervised dogs dont mix
  12. GinaH

    GinaH New Member

    If it were just a bite such as out of defense or fear then that is totally different and then I feel different measures should be taken. But according to the headline which Bronx posted it said "Two Pit Bulls Maul a 9 year old boy." But then again we all know the media can't be trusted to tell the whole truth.
  13. spencerpits

    spencerpits New Member

    I just have one last thing to say. It is only my opinion, but I'm putting it out there as a warning to anyone who trusts their dog(s) with their children. No matter how much my child respects animals, no matter how long they have lived together, and no matter how much I trust my dogs (which I trust with my life), I'll NEVER leave my son alone with them. Or even one. It's just not worth risking my son's life. I've heard of far too many stories of dogs who were family pets ever since puppyhood just 'snapping' one day and hurting or killing a child they'd known all their life. Again, this is just my opinion, and I'm not judging anyone - just hoping it might make you think.
  14. GinaH

    GinaH New Member

    Most responsible dog owner already know Not to leave a dog unsupervised with a child. (or at least they should)
  15. Sara

    Sara New Member

    I'm with you SP... No matter what breed...dog could hurt child or vice versa much too easily to let them alone together like that... they are ANIMALS...so they will act like them from time to time... (kids AND dogs...LOL)...

    Seriously though...it's better NOT to trust than to trust and lose a child or dog...
  16. Samsintentions

    Samsintentions New Member

    Exactly. YOu can't always know what your child is going to do. Along with the fact of always knowing what your dog is going to do.
    Leaving any child unsupervised with any pet is not a good idea. Plain and simple.
  17. elizavixen

    elizavixen New Member

    Just out of curiosity - what age do you all consider a "child" to be?

    I'm just wondering b/c my parents left me alone with our 2 dogs (St bernard & German shepherd mix) since I can remember (about 5 or 6). I don't consider them (my parents) irresponsible. The 2 dogs in particular, they were there before I was born so I grew up with them. They wouldn't hurt a fly and I would bet money on that. I was taught to never provoke an animal or anything like that and I don't know if they let me around them alone when I was a toddler but probably. I guess it just seems kind of weird to me looking back on it. I spent a lot of time alone with my dogs when I was a "child" and I just can't imagine my parents not letting me alone with them. ?
  18. spencerpits

    spencerpits New Member

    My son will be 5 in December. He will not be left alone with a child until he's at least in the double-digits. The majority of cases I hear about involving children, the dog and child have grown up together, and everyone swore the dog would never hurt anyone. But they were wrong. I think that if any parent is willing to take that risk - no matter how small it is (or they think it is) - they are very irresponsible. Again, this is just my opinion. How many times have you heard of attacks on children by family pets where everybody says that it was such a good dog, they don't understand why it attacked. Those people didn't think their dog would hurt a fly either, but it happened.
  19. MaxKellyAST

    MaxKellyAST New Member

    I have heard a lot of the same kinds of stories, Ive also heard of spanish fly. A friend of a friends big brother got some. Ive also heard stories of pit bulls turning, how they are viscious and attack without warning or cause. Why is it your not scared of your dog attacking you? What is it about a child that makes them prone? What is it about the situation that changes upon your observation of it? Does your dog know that because you are watching it behaves in a different way or perhaps your child does. If it is truly, as its been said, difinitivly "Irresponsible" then why have the dogs at all. I say that it is absolutely irresponsible to have something in your house that you believe for one second could severely hurt your child and you should put down the dog in question. Anyone who says that they constantly see their dogs and their children together is not being entirely honest. Think about that. Is it the cur dogs that people are raising or perhaps their finite understanding of how to raise a perfectly good dog? The old statement we always use about "Never let ANY dog and children be left alone" schtick is something that has always been used as a "Public service announcment" for those of us who have absolutely no idea what other are doing to and with thier animals. Not to discount the times we should be weary like when a Bi**h is in season and being mated or having puppies et.... There is a retort to that one sided logic and it is a slippery slope to offense when we start using adjectives to describe someone's behavior and actions esp. with regard to their own children. And it doesnt really help to say IMO and just IMO, "can't shake the devils hand and say you're only kidding" This is all IMO :kiss_puppy:
  20. spencerpits

    spencerpits New Member

    Actually, both my son and my dogs act differently when I am around. Why? Because they see me as a figure of authority. And I don't think my dogs would ever hurt my son. But at the same time, I'm not willing to take that risk. Why am I not scared of my dogs attacking me? Well, like I said, I am not scared of them attacking my son - but I won't risk that. It's one thing for me as an adult to take that risk for myself, but another thing entirely to risk my son. You ask why it is different if I am there supervising. Well, I can hopefully head off any ill behavior - on the part of my son or my dogs - before it leads to something more serious, and possibly deadly. If I am not there, I cannot stop my son from provoking the dog. I also cannot see that my dog is getting in an ill mood, and no longer wants to be around my son. As for offending anyone - when it comes to a child's safety, I will make no apologies for stepping on toes. It is my opinion that my son's health and safety comes before anything else. It does not offend me that you say it is "absolutely irresponsible to have something in your house that you believe for one second could severely hurt your child" because I don't believe that is what I am doing. If you truly feel you are right by leaving your son alone with your dog, then you shouldn't take offense to me expressing my opinion.

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