I adopted Lucy and have some issues. Need advice.

Well I adopted Lucy, the 7 mo old St. Bernard with entropion the friday before last. Things went very well the first few days. She was very sweet, very submissive. Indy (my other St. Bernard, 1 1/2 y.o.) was being very dominant with her (humping her) and she was OK with that. Everything went ok with the food too. She had her spay surgery and eye surgery on that Friday so she was a little out of it. I didn't really allow them to get together until Monday. Monday and Tues and Weds were OK. Then Thurs I fed them both separately. Indy eats outside and I gave him his food first, then I gave Lucy her food inside. She ate it then I let Indy back in. Lucy growled and bit Indy on the face. Not hard, he didn't seem to really care. He just sort of was like What was that? She kept it up for a few minutes around the area where her food bowl had been (I had picked it up when she was done eating) then they were Ok. Fri went without incident. Then this morning she did the same thing with the food bowl, growled and semi-attacked Indy when he walked in near her where her food bowl had been. Not ferociously attacked, but growled and bit him. Again, he didn't really care. Then a few mins later I was sitting down and petting Lucy and Indy came to the other side of my chair and she lunged across at him and bit him on the face. Again, not hard and again no reaction from him.

The other thing I have noticed is Lucy is very jealous with toys. She hasn't bit Indy over them but it is constant musical toys. He picks up something, she takes it away. He picks up something else, she takes it away. Indy did pick up something this morning and wouldn't let her get it which seemed to annoy her but she didn't attack or anything.

While all this is going on, Lucy's eyes look really bad. I'm not sure how they are supposed to look. They are raw and gooey. She still doesn't want to open them really but when she does they look ok. She is going back to the vet on Mon so I will have him look at them then. She is constantly rubbing at them so I know they are bothering her.

Ok...so like I said, I've never adopted a dog before and I know Lucy probably didn't have a great life before she came here and I am more than willing to work with her, I just do not want anything to happen to Indy. Mind you he is about twice her size but he has NEVER growled at anything in his life. It sounds stupid but I wonder if he would know how to defend himself.

SHe has not been at all aggressive towards me. It is just like she is very jealous or fearful of Indy taking something of hers. It has also really only been around feeding time (the food bowl thing, the toy thing happens all day).

I read the other post that is somewhat similar to this and got some information. Does it sound like Indy is the dominant one and is just too laid back to step up, or do you think she is trying to be dominant? There haven't been any fights, I have just never been in this situation so it upsets me.

Is this somewhat normal for a new dog who has probably been neglected? Do you think that after time when she knows she will always get her fair share of food and toys that she will calm down?

It has only been one week and I don't want to give up on her b/c I think that has happened to her too much so do you think it is something that can be worked with and taken care of or should I give her back?

I also wonder if her eyes don't have something to do with it? Maybe when those heal she will be a bit more relaxed.

Also, Indy doesn't seem at all concerned or afraid of her (he just looks at her like she's crazy) so should I just defer to him?

I have sort of decided in my head to give it until the end of the month (about 2 wks, enough time?) given that it doesn't escalate and then make a decision.

Just would like any advice.

Also, the foster mom told me they were free-feeding Lucy. She suggested I do that which I really don't want to do but do you think that may be related to it? She was used to always having many food bowls full of food and now she thinks it is scarce or something? Do you think I should free feed them?

 

Lucy is probably feeling somewhat vulnerable and therefore possibly a little over-defensive, you didnt mention the cone, is she still wearing it? this can in itself make a dog more defensive, she also cant see right now and Im sure even if she is not so much painful she will be uncomfortable with the stitches and the surgery itself, possibly frustrated...another reason to act defensively. ( Usually stitches will start to really become 'itchy' and annoying round about day 4....just a personal observation) Im not going to make excuses for her though, but the vulnerability could well be the reasoning behind it all and it is something that needs to be monitored.
Personally I have never free fed my dogs for the simple reason that I have had multiple dogs, they all go to their 'corners', eat their food and the bowls, just as your doing, are then picked up, if they are left down, even if one dog goes to another dogs empty bowl it can create a little tension, if Lucy cant see well to know that the bowl is not there just by Indy being where Lucy thinks her bowl is could create tension between them...or rather from her. Indy sounds as though he is handling it well and treating her as not a threat...maybe as more of a grouch. I do think he would be able to defend himself if it went that far, from what you say he hasnt responded to her growls and snaps in a timid or fearful way.
I would definitely monitor them, keep them apart at feeding times, you wont really know how this is going to pan out until Lucy's over the problem with the eyes.
Might not be a bad idea to feed Lucy outside also, completely away from Indy, that puts them both in a more 'neutral zone' and should take away the risk of Indy being snapped at when he walks in the house.
What makes me a little unconfortable with this is the lunging when they are both near you. As you said you dont know Lucy's history. She is 7 moths old and a female, its a little young (although not unheard of) for her to be seriously challenging an adult male even if he was a little on the submissuive side.
Heres what Im thinking though, she may or may not have been abused, she may have been neglected, not had much human companianship, she goes to a rescue, is there for a while then goes through 2 surgeries and then to a new home, generally whenever a dog has been through a rough time we, being the humans that we are, tend to give a lot of attention, spend more time with them than we would normally...maybe even 'baby' them a little....its our 'nurturing instinct' and Im guilty of doing that many times...its not a 'fault' and is usually necessary...but in the process of doing this we can also create a 'monster' that we then have to put back on track. Lucy may not have ever really had any good attention, all of a sudden she gets a lot of it and is not so willing to share it.
The right way to deal with this if you know for sure which one is dominant is to go along with the dogs heirarchy, dominant dog gets everything first but Im not so sure in this case that this is whats going on, without knowing or seeing the dogs together and just going by what youve said Im leaning more towards Lucy being more vulnerable and over-defensive than dominant.
It seems that when Indy does 'put his paw down' Lucy backs off without any kind of retaliation.
Have you asked the foster mom if there were any dog aggression problems? what other dogs did she have while Lucy was there, maybe she could shed some light on Lucys behaviour.
Please keep in mind that this is just my opinion, its not a straight forward situation mainly because of the eye problem. My Rottweiller, the sweetest dog, no aggression problems at all but she went blind (due to diabetes) it took a while for her to adjust and during that time she did get a little defensive around people and a bit 'jumpy' around the other dogs.
Sorry, I dont know if any of this helps. :?

 

Lucy doesn't have a cone. Also there are no stitches b/c the surgery was done with a laser. But her eyes are definately bothering her.

Her foster mom said there were no problems with her and the other dogs. but she was only there a week. They had 6 dogs I think.

The reason I feed Indy outside and her inside is b/c that is how I did it when Samantha was alive b/c they got different food and Indy liked to switch bowls back and forth. Indy and Lucy get hte same kibble but Indy has supplements in his so I really don't want them switching.

I do agree that I babied her. The first three days she was kept inside with me 24/7. She even slept in my room. Now I have been making her sleep with Indy. They seem to be OK outside.

It is just sort of weird b/c like I said Mon, Tues, and Weds they were like best friends. Constantly playing. Now it is like the novelty has wore off.

When she does go to snap at him, should I hold her back and reprimand her? or should I let Indy handle it?

 

This is just another update. I took them outside to play with them both. Started out with a chew toy. Indy got it, Lucy chased him around for awhile. They were having fun. Lucy would take it, lay down with it. Indy would go take it from her and have her chase him. then they started play fighting. Indy took her down, flipped her on her back and she was cool with it I guess. Then they got kind of bored and Indy was looking at something so Lucy came over and I petted her, then Indy came running over just to come over and Lucy again sort of snapped at him, Indy didn't care and Lucy got over it quickly. I made it a point to pet Indy in front of her and she seemed Ok with it. Then they played some more with the chew toy. Then I let them in, Indy first, and gave them a drink, Indy first and everything is cool. Indy is over here where her food bowl was this morning, no issues. ? I am going to call the foster mom on Mon after the vet appt. and discuss it with her.

 

Good luck, hope all works out okay.

 

And another update....

This morning I decided to give them their breakfast outside together. Everything went fine, no fussing. So I guess I will try that again tonight and see how it goes.

 

I think Lucy is behaving quite naturally for a dog that may not have been fed regularly or had to fight for her food and attention. She is unsure of her position and is used to having to duke it out for anything she wants. You see this in stray dogs a lot.

I would definitely look into the book "Mine!: A practical guide to resource guarding in dogs," by Jean Donaldson. I think it will help a LOT.

 

Hi,
Things sound like they're sorting themselves out a little now and like everyone else said, it's probably alot to do with her past and having to fight to hold onto what's hers.

I also haven't been in a situation where dogs who get along suddenly start to show 'top dog' aggresion until recently. I know how you feel about having to just watch them and 'hope' it sorts it's self out without any bloodhsed. My dog'd very dominant and is showing it alot lately. He has a male dog he plays with but the past couple of weeks have been a bit strange with him putting Alfie (other male) in his place. He was soo aggresive about it, asif he didn't know that a simple growl would tell Alfie what was and wasn't acceptable. He'd chase him growling and bitting at him for a good 10 ft then they'd just carry on playing. Now he 'allows' Alfie on top when they're laying clashing teeth and just does a little growl when Alfie gets too excited and tries to mount him :mrgreen:

I just told you that to try and let you know that as long as you supervise and carry on experimenting like you are doing, with a little time things should work out great
Good Luck.

 

How is it going with them now? Let me know if you get that book and it helps. It's very short and inexpensive, but quite good!