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Pregnancy Xrays conclusive or not?

Discussion in 'Dogs - all breeds / types' started by LDG, Feb 13, 2005.

  1. LDG

    LDG New Member

    I am asking for your opinions only. I have read much on the subject but I always like bouncing things off real people. I took my dog in today for an xray to get an idea of how many pups she is expecting. The Vet took an xray and we can barely see about 4 spines. He says we definetly have pups but he is concerned because if the first breeding took the skeletons should be more visible at 50 days. I have to take her in again next week for another xray but he has me very upset because he said the puppies may not be alive and he doesn't have an ultra sound machine in his office and apparently no one around here does for at least 60 miles. I imagine the puppies can be younger then the 50 days ...we did breed her 3 times. Does anyone have experiences with xrays and gestation conflicting?
    Please this is just a question from one person to another based on your personal experiences.
  2. charmedagain

    charmedagain New Member

    Hi what date to her cycle start?
    What dates did she stand for the male.

    The normal cycle lasts 19-27days depending on the female.
    I will give you an example of a cycle and mating.

    Say your female came into her cycle 1st of january most people mate there dogs on the 10/12/14 days the enhances the chances of fertilisation.
    Once the female will stand for a male even if they mated her eggs will not be ready to be fertilised for another 48hours do not worry as the sperm can suvive 7days.

    So if she was mated on the 11th january her eggs may not be fertilsed till the 13th/14th.
    You take it from day one of mating and count 67days as most females will whelp by her 63rd day the extra 4days are added to compensate for and delay in fertilisation.Some dogs also do not whelp until the 69thday but this should be avoided if possible.

    I would also like to add that since the vet thinks these whelps may not be alive the he has it wrong as there must be one still alive since the female will go into premature labour if her litter dies during the pregnancy and you will notice a dark coloured foul smelling discharge from her vulva.Even though he does not have a sonogram in his office if he is experienced enough he will be able to detect heartbeats of the whelps and will be able to tell how well they are doing due to the rate of there heart beat.

    Has your female had all her shots and upto date on her worming.
    How often are you feeding her as her food intake should have been increased slow growing whelps are a sign of the mother not being wormed correctly and not eating correctly she also be placed on a good quality puppy food as this has more essential nutrients than her normal food would have.
    If she needs to be wormed she can be safely done 2weeks before she is do to whelp, Then again 2weeks after the puppies have arrived and done again when the puppies are 2weeks old you should onnly use a puppy wormer or one given by the vet that is safe to use during a pregnancy.

    I have added a link to a pregnancy calender which you put int the first date of her mating and it will give you her whelping date also will tell you what to expect each week of the pregnancy.



    Also if possible get the Book Of The Bitch you can buy this from www.amazon.com it usually arrives within 2days it makes good reading for anyone thinking of breeding or does breed its every breeders bible.
  3. LDG

    LDG New Member

    My dog goes to the vet on a regular basis. She has never missed her shots...heart worm medication nor has she ever had worms. My dog is the family dog so she gets the royal treatment. She is on a premium puppy food now. I changed her food gradually as she was approaching her 7th week. Her belly grows daily if not hourly..lol. She eats 3 meals a day now and she is never ever overfed. I had her checked from nose to tail before I bred her. She is OFA and Cerf cleared. The doctor only did the xray he Did not listen for heartbeats..he didn't even feel her belly. The regular vet the one I adore was not there on Saturday so I dealt with her partner...I don't think I like him very much. My guess is perhaps we need to push our due date forward. Instead of Feb 26 perhaps it will be March 5th.

    The vet sort of scared the crap out of me. I have since calmed down since my initial post. My dog seems fine. She is eating, drinking and growing. I was just flipped out because of what the vet said about the pups. Everyone has been reassuring me here at home but I wanted to know what experiences you all may have had with your vets.
    This Dr. happens to be a bit older ...maybe in 60's and he just didn't seem that interested in my dog. I prefer his female counterpart.
  4. charmedagain

    charmedagain New Member

    Some vets are eager to get you in and out as quickly as possible.
    I would say try and see if you can get an appointment with your regular vet and ask her what she thinks or you can just wait and see i think there may have been a delay in her eggs being fertilised so as to the rwason they are small.

    The vet you saw should really have listened to check if there was any heart beats as he should have know he would not see any on an X-ray as its a still image.
    If he had listened to the heartbeats then he would have knwon if anything was wrong as i DO NOT mean to frighten you in anyway but if there was or is something wrong this could put your girls life in danger.
    But i believe all is well and she just stood for the male early into her cycle before the eggs were ready to be fertilised.

    Aslong as she is eating drinking and general her normal self and there is not foul smelling dark coloured discharge from her vulva i would not worry.
    If you ever see any green or dark coloured discharge before a puppy arrives you need to seek veterinary help ASAP as this is a warning sign.
    A green coloured discharge after the first pup is normal as this is a sign the placenta has seperated from the uterine wall. My dogs get very slow and do not show any real signs of being pregnant until the 7th-8th week then they seem to blow up lol.

    Again i would not worry to much you have done everything possible to make sure her and her babies are healthy and i hope she has a strong healthy litter...

    Good luck and keep us posted of her progress.

  5. LDG

    LDG New Member

    Well so much for that. Last 3 nights the puppies are moving and a kicking. Such an awesome experience. So we have life and things are great. I did take my dog to the vet today and we have a litter of 7 or more coming. He tells me she is healthy and things are great. He apologized for making me worry. :cry:
    Things look good and I have much work to do to get ready for the puppies. I believe I have everything in place but being me I will check and double check so forgive me if I show up here with a question or two just to reinforce what I probably already know.

  6. charmedagain

    charmedagain New Member

    Do you have a check list of everything you should have handy for the birth i can give you a list of things if you like Also did you say you have the Book Of The Bitch as i say its every breeders bible lol.

    I hope all goes well and your girl has a strong healthy pups and she does well in herself.
    Good luck and i know how your feeling as now is the time you start to panic wether everything is ready for the birth is everything in place and ready are you forgetting something things like that but the stress is all worth it when mother and pups do well.

    Good luck and i will be thinking of you both.
  7. LDG

    LDG New Member

    The book I have is "Canine Reporduction" The Breeders Guide by
    Phyllis A. HOlst, MS, DVM

    Is this the book you are referring to or is there another?

    Please let me know.

  8. charmedagain

    charmedagain New Member

    The one i am refering to is The Book Of The Bitch a complete guide to understanding and caring for bitches by J.M Evans & Kay White

    It has everything from getting a bitch as a puppy right through to reproduction and whelping things that can go wrong during the pregnancy and during the birth, Things that newborn puppies can get when they are born and problems puppies are born with.

    It has a list of things to have handy and ready for the whelping.

    A small box with toweling coverd hotwater bottle to place the puppies in if any need to be removed from the dam.
    Abox of fine plastic surgical gloves from your vet.
    A tube of ky jelly to act as lubricant.
    Nail brush and soap and towels.
    Old soft towels which can be discarded, For drying the puppies.
    Glucose and water drink for the dam ( 1 tablespoon glucose to 1 pint of water )
    Soft kitchen paper and gauze swabs.
    Powerful flashlight incase dam needs to gooutside during hours of darkness ( she may deliver a puppy while urinating ).
    Surgical scissors, 1 blunt ended pair, 1 sharp ended pair standing in a vessel of antiseptic.
    Thermometer with stubby end.
    A premature baby feeder( its best to have more than one.
    Sterilising solution,bowl,bottle brush,bitch replacement milk.
    Plastic sack for soiled paper.
    Lidded bucket for offensive discards such as placentas.
    Another covered container to put outside the whelping room door to place any puppies born dead for later examination by your vet.
    Telephone numbers of your vet.
    Something for you to do like a book or crossword book as you do not want to concentrate on her to much especially in the early stages.

  9. LDG

    LDG New Member

    This book is very similar with the contents that you mention. I will pick that one up too because you can never have too many books.
    Thanks for the list and I will be sure to let you know how we are progressing.

    Thank you so much.

  10. Shineillusion

    Shineillusion New Member

    Every time I read a list of supplies to have on hand for whelping, I see one thing that stands out. Why do they say to have towels? Most novices see that, and think bath towels. Totally unnecessary. Hand towels will work just fine, even better, as they're easier to handle. And soft towels? If you're drying puppies, you should also be stimulating them. You don't use soft towels for that. Normal old slightly rough towels not only provide the necessary stimulation, they clean and dry better.
  11. charmedagain

    charmedagain New Member

    Shineillusion if a person breeding has done there research before breeding they will know hand towels are the best to use also the reason they say soft towels is because a newborn pups skin and fur is delicate and towels that are too rough will cause cuts and lesions on the skin.

    Stimulating the puppies is not through the towel but through the way they are rubbed when stimulating a puppy there body should be rubbed up and down to stimulate the lungs to work and to expel and fluid that is in there.

    I have used soft towels and rough towels in the many years i have been breeding and i too this day find soft towels to work better. I also have a suction bottle like the ones midwives use on newborn babies this also helps remove any fluid but should never be attempted by a novice as can cause damage if done wrong.

  12. Shineillusion

    Shineillusion New Member

    I've whelped more puppies than I can count; my own, for friends, and at the clinic, and we always used towels that were dried with no softener, and were a bit coarse. Never, ever have I seen the skin damaged in any way from the texture of the towel. I'm not talking about a towel with the texture of a Brillo pad, just one that isn't plush or overly softened. Soft, plush towels are not very absorbent, either.

    Ideally, the puppies would be cleaned up, dried, and stimulated by their mother licking them. A bitches tongue isn't all that soft, either. The texture is slightly rough and pebbley. Towels with a bit of texture mimic the bitches tongue, and DO provide stimulation to the skin. But again, I'm talking texture, not Brillo Pad.
  13. charmedagain

    charmedagain New Member

    It don't take a rocket scientist to know you dont use a very soft towel i do know what you mean.
    What i mean is if people use a towel that is too rough it cause skin abrasions on the pups.
    I have veterinary training aswell but as with all practices in all aspects of life no 2 are ever trained the same or have the same ideas and treatments on things.

    I am not saying your wrong on any of these matters i was just pointing out its better to use a soft towel i do not mean as in a brand new very soft towel i use towels that have been used i never soften my towels as there really no point since they dont dry you properly if they are softened.

    Most of the time towels are not needed during whelping anyway as the Dam usually does everything herself like one of my Dam's she did not need any help sailed through the whole process only thing i did was removed a couple of the placenta's and discarded them and any bedding that was soiled.

    I am also not saying you have no experience in these matters. Like i say i have been breeding for many years and raised many litters aswell has handfed a few litters that friends have had if there dams have milk problems same as you probably have too.

    Like i say aslong as the dam is healthy and whelping goes to plan and aslong as she is capable of doing everything herself then its best to leave alone and allow them to do it without any interference from us humans.
    When mitzy had her litter which was her first and last she did it all herself and did not want the help which is not unusual for a first time mum.

    But research is the key and there is no such thing as to much research as we all keep saying.

    AGain sorry if i came across as saying you do not know what your talking about it was not my intention.

  14. Samsintentions

    Samsintentions New Member

    I agree, yall know I've had my share with litters...LOL...

    Generally you shouldn't interfere AT ALL unless there is an imediate reason to or there are problems presenting that need attention.

    For the first 12 hours the pups should be left alone unless assistance is needed. Then i recommend minimal handling, only enough to get them used to being touched, picked up and handled. I feel that the less I mess with them during the first days the better and less stress on the bitch and pups. After they begin to move and eyes open thats another story.

    As for towels, I prefer using old used towels (washed of course) but when they are tooo soft, they do not dry.
    Stimulating a pup doesn't require a towel...

    I like Mikes list. Everything you need but the bathroom toilet!! LOL...
    But i do have to agree, I keep everything in a sterile tote box ready for anything!!!

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