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puppy vaccinations after parvo

Discussion in 'Dogs - all breeds / types' started by Jamiya, Mar 14, 2006.

  1. Jamiya

    Jamiya New Member

    So, the group is wanting me to go ahead and give Mary Kate her second set of shots, and then spay her at least 5 days later. I hate to dump 7 live viruses into her bloodstream, but I guess I don't have a choice. She was sick with parvo last Sunday night, was better on Monday, relapsed Monday night, was on the mend on Tuesday and has been fine since then.

    How soon after parvo have you all vaccinated without making the puppy sick? I wish they would let me do a single shot for distemper ONLY and then spay her later in the week and let the adopters do the final shot later.

    I have no idea what to do with Ashley. She needs to get some weight on and get some energy before I can even THINK about shots of any kind.
     
  2. honeybears

    honeybears New Member

    I would think you want to wait a litle bit, did youget March WDJ? good article about a healthy immune system. It says vacines disrupt the immune system and nto give give those all in one, but a parvo at 10-12 weeks, (but why since everyone posted here looking for parvo hlep their pups have ben younger) distempr 4 weeks later and rabies at 6 months

    its also say s label directions warn vetinarians not to vaccinate a sick anmial. It also goes on to say that even vaccinating a dog when they are being fixed is totally irresponisble.
     
  3. Jamiya

    Jamiya New Member

    I know all of that. However, I am bound by the rules of the foster group. I already asked if I could give her distemper ONLY and then spay a week later and have the owners finish up the shots a week or two after that, but I was denied.

    They don't understand. They think vaccinations save lives. It obviously didn't help my puppies. They still got parvo - why? Because maternal antibodies were still present and they inactivated the vaccine. Plus, it takes 2-3 weeks after the vaccine to obtain immunity even if the maternal antibodies were gone.

    Vaccinating that young is useless. It doesn't protect them - it only weakens. In a shelter environment, I don't know what they can do. But for the foster homes, they should let the pups wait longer for shots.

    I can't adopt her out until she is spayed. I don't know if they will spay her without getting these shots first.
     
  4. honeybears

    honeybears New Member

    I know this would be hard, but can you keep them as fosters for another month to let htme heal, get their shots and then spay? Or could you show that that article int eh WDJ and they would change thier mind?
     
  5. Jamiya

    Jamiya New Member

    I would keep them that long, but the group is not going to let me skip their shots. They also won't listen to any advice or articles or studies. The people in charge are very set in their ways and until the vets start realizing the truth and changing the protocols, there is no shifting them. I am lucky they even let me foster because of how I choose to care for my own dogs. Other groups wouldn't. I think it's a product of living in the midwest, where people are closed-minded, wear blinders on their eyes, and take decades to accept a new idea.
     
  6. DeLaUK

    DeLaUK New Member

    I know how you feel about the vaccines but without titer testing every pup they wont be able to control it so they go with the usual protocol of protecting those that the vaccines are somewhat effect on. It would cost a lot more to titer test than to vaccinate and the shelters Ive worked with often get the vaccines for, at the very most cost price sometimes less and sometimes free. Many of the foster homes work with or through the shelters so they go along with there protocols. (I have no idea how yours is set up though, Im just speaking generally and with the ones Ive worked with).

    Any vet will tell you that they are not fully protected until 4 months old after a series starting at 8 weeks. Just having the first or second set doesnt give them much protection or as you know in some cases can give them less protection than if they's had none.

    The problem is they need vets that they trust to go in and educate them about exactly what happens when vaccines are given to pups that still have maternal protection....but then theres still the cost of the titer testing and the sad thing is that there would most likely be an increase in parvo in general because people will do what they always do, they dont look at the whole picture, they try and cut corners financially even when they have the best intentions.....thats not just my opinion but its what makes a lot of vets reluctant to push this issue.

    Ive read a lot more about the controversy surrounding this since talking to you about it last year some time and if I ever do have another pup (I usually take adult dogs though) I will definately go with titer testing as much as possible rather than the vaccine.

    Back to your question though, Post Parvo pups will usually be vaccinated about a week after going home (a week of normal stool and eating again) although I know some vets that have vaccinated them as they are on their way out the door, I dont recall this making them ill in any way again other than lethargy but that can happen with an adult dog after a one year booster. I wouldnt think that they would need a parvo vaccine as they dont get it again (although there is some controversy there also but from everything Ive read and talking to the vets I discussed it with its more of a relapse after over doing things before they are actually recovered and not that theyve caught it again).

    Distemper, coronavirus, adenovirus, parainfluenza needs to be covered.
     
  7. Jamiya

    Jamiya New Member

    Mary Kate was sick last Sunday night, getting better Monday, relapsed Monday night, and then getting better again on Tuesday. She was eating on Tuesday but didn't start having stools again until Wednesday (nothing in her system). So do you think she's okay to be vaccinated today? Or wait a few more days?
     
  8. DeLaUK

    DeLaUK New Member

    It really would depend on the vet and what they thought with an exam.
     
  9. Nik

    Nik New Member

    Hi,

    I'm soo pleased that your pups pulled through, all thanks to you! :eek:

    I'm kinda surprised by the foster places' morals on how to treat animals though.

    I just presumed it was a charity, but by things you've said I'm now thinking they're a money making business. Really confused though cause if they were, surely they'd have been able to afford to hospitalize your pups?

    I only say this assumption as they seem to have no 'pups best interest at heart' values. They know how hard you've worked, 25 hours a day, all day most days and yet they don't recognise that all that could go to waste should the pup be put through something just a week earlier than they can cope with?

    I know there are rules and regulations in place, but surely there's also exceptions to every rule when lives are at stake?


    I can see your hands are tied and just hope they realise what a dedicated, incredible, devoted person they have 'working' for them.

    The only thing I could come up with was IF you could get the vet to tell the shelter that he will not operate on a dog that's not fit enough to handle surgery... or something along those lines. This could be your argument then on not to vacinate just yet as they aren't going anywhere for a while.

    Good Luck!
     
  10. Jamiya

    Jamiya New Member

    One of the other fosters suggests vaccinating on Friday and spaying next Friday. The vet who was working with me is on vacation but will be back tomorrow and I will see what she says. Mary Kate was never that sick, but still. My holistic vet recommends waiting for 6 weeks after parvo to vaccinate and another 6 weeks to spay.

    The problem is, most vets don't realize the negative impact of vaccinations. They think they are "harmless". I have even had someone in the group say that if the puppy vaccinations are received more than 3 weeks apart, you have to "start over" with the series. What the heck?! The whole point of the series is to vaccinate when the maternal antibodies wear off. If you skip them all and ONLY vaccinate once at like 16 weeks (for instance - I am not advocating this), then you only need one set of shots!

    We're definitely not a money-making business. We have no money. We do weekly fundraisers at adoptions but can barely pay our bills. These animals cost a lot of money, even when vets are working at reduced rates. Foster homes put in a lot of our own money as well. There are vaccinations, spay/neuter, and sick animals to tend to. Animals needing extensive surgery are often put to sleep unless a sponser can be found. Heartworm positive dogs are not pulled from the shelter because we can't afford the treatment. One of the other foster moms put several hundred dollars into a senior Yorkie and unless she finds someone willing to pay this amount in addition to the standard adoption fee, she is just going to keep the little guy.

    It's not ideal. We do the best we can with what we have. I purposely joined a group that pulls from kill shelters so that I would be making a real difference. But that doesn't mean I agree with the shelter or their policies. I just try to focus on the animal I have right now and know that it is one more animal I have "saved" and got into a good home.

    Until the vet community starts paying attention to the new research and changing their vaccination protocols, no one is going to listen. "That's the way we've always done it" predominates. Fear predominates. Most problems due to vaccinations happen later on down the line, so no one associates them as the culprit.
     
  11. Jamiya

    Jamiya New Member

    I am a bit irked that the people urging me to put her down a week ago have not even once said to me, "Great job! You pulled her through!"

    Would THEY have fed this dog every hour round the clock? I doubt it.

    I will NOT be vaccinating Ashley any time soon, and I think the vets will back me on this one. She is skin and bones and spends most of her day sleeping. She needs to regain strength and be acting normal before she can have more shots.
     
  12. Jamiya

    Jamiya New Member

  13. honeybears

    honeybears New Member

    my vet sentout a lleter last year with a new vaccine protocal. dont remember about puppies though, I was pleasantly surprised to see that.

    Those puppies are alive because ofyour hard work and you are right I dont think they would have done round the clock care. Get the vet to write a letter to support you.
     
  14. Jamiya

    Jamiya New Member

    I think part of the problem is that she needs to be spayed and "up-to-date" on shots before she can go to her new home. It is in her best interest to be placed into her forever home, although not at the expense of her future health. I wish we could use a spay contract, but they would never go for that.
     
  15. DeLaUK

    DeLaUK New Member

    First off I have to say that Ashley would not be alive had it not been for everything youve done. Im sorry that that the shelter/foster care doesnt give you any credit for this, you deserve not only a 'thankyou' but the respect for your dedication and perserverance. Working in animal hospitals for years, I know exactly how you feel, its often a thankless job (as far as some people are concerned) but you put up with it and dont allow it to get you down because you know yourself that you made a difference. I got to where I never expected nor even hoped for anything from anyone.

    In reference to you above quote, its sad that it comes down to trusting the future 'people' in getting the pups spayed. Unfortunately too many people, even when given spay/neuter certificates did not follow this through and the result is thousands more homeless pups and the change in policy. In some shelters they are spaying as young as 6 or 8 weeks old.

    I agree absolutely with your holistic vet in that there should be some time before spaying either of the pups.
     
  16. hermann muenster

    hermann muenster New Member

    Jamiya - My hat's off to you!!!! Great job saving two puppies lives. If it wasn't for all of your courage and hard work - the certainly would have perished.

    My vet posponed a parvo booster for one of my pups because his stools were loose. He didn't want to vaccinate the little guy for 10 days AFTER the stool was normal!! It turned out that the little guy had munched on one of my houseplants.

    One of the reasons I like my vet is because he is very conservative with vaccinations. I pretty much look at each individual disease or condition that I think my dogs may be at risk to and that is only what I vaccinate for.

    As far as the shelter you are working with ------ PLEASE reconsider working with them in the future. It sounds like they have offered very liitle support to you through this parvo ordeal and it doesn't sound like there is anyone there that has any common sense. Those puppies won't be ready for adoption for a couple of more weeks. They have a lot of weight and strenght to catch up on!

    Again - great job pulling them through!
     
  17. Samsintentions

    Samsintentions New Member

    Just thought I'd throw my two cents in here.

    Jamiya, your my idol... you've done wonderfully and anyone who doesn't recongnize that, is a fool.

    About the vaccinations, None of my vets would vaccinate, let alone spay after parvo for at least a minimum of 4 weeks.

    the vaccination could do way more harm than good. especailly since your introducing something that the puppy has already fought off. Kinda sinceless to vaccinate for something a dog already has. but anyway, I know where your position is. Hince why I started my own private rescue, and have greatly decrased my activity with others.

    They have a "rules and regulations" and they really don't care about the ifs, ands, and buts... Rules are Rules and not meant to be broken for any reason.
    I do know where your coming from.

    I'd put it off for as long as possible. Just keep stalling as much as you can. What little time you can buy, is better than nothing. IMO
     
  18. DMikeM

    DMikeM New Member

    Jamiya,
    You rock!
    The pups rock!

    There is no way I would introduce any live or dead virus into those pups for several days maybe a couple weeks. I would want them to have as much time to get some real strength back and not have to start producing antibodies all over again for something they are just getting over with.
     
  19. Jamiya

    Jamiya New Member

    The one pup couldn't possibly have more strength. She is driving us nuts! Which of course is good. :D She never was terribly sick.

    I may go ahead and get her vaccinated and if she doesn't react at all, get her spayed the end of next week. The other pups in the litter are mostly adopted out.

    Of course, the other option is to get the vaccines and tell the group I gave them.... :-$ But she MUST be spayed and I'm not sure if it is safe to have her in a vet environment without proper vaccination against distemper.

    I don't know what to do about Ashley. The vet never called me back yesterday.
     
  20. DeLaUK

    DeLaUK New Member

    Did any of the other pups from the litter come down with it?
     

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