Schutzund?

Does anyone do this kind of sport? I am interested, but I don't have the time or energy to do this kind of heavy training now. Someday hopefully, I will... I met a guy who is a member of schutzund club, but he moved to Kentucky to learn more about Ivan Balabanov's training methods. Does anyone know this guy?

 

Ok, I might be mistaken on this, but it is schutzhund and in german that means schuzt=protection hund=dog. It is just GSD taught to "protect" I personally would never to a dog to be a protection dog. Anyway here is the link to the real german club: http://www.schaeferhunde.de/ and there is a link at the bottome with either the brittish flag or the american flag so you can read about it in english (unless of course you speak german) It has everything in a couple languages, it has spanish and french too. But if you find something not in english you can go to http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/tr and enter the website under Übersetzen Sie eine Webseite and it will translate for you. Also the probably have someone you can email and most germans speak at least a little english.
But this is something you need to be very careful with. You have to very carefully select the dog you would use. It is very dangerous and I don't think anyone should do it.

 

On my website I have several links to protection sports. Schutzhund is no longer only for German Shepherds but it is better suited for the herding types rather than the bully types... If you are truly interrested in learning more about this type of training I would visit the websites listed on my links page on my own website and learn as much as you can. BE VERY CAREFULL about what trainer you choose to work with and realize that with this type of training the responsibility you hold is heavy and the capability you are training in your dog is not something to be taken lightly... THIS type of training must be kept up on EVERY day and you must always be leary about who and what is approaching your dog at any time or place in his life... for the rest of his life after taking on this type of training. To have a good dog for this work you MUST have a dominant dog so you must also have a good working knowledge on how to handle dominant dogs...

There are a plethura of reasons people persue this type of work with their dogs (or breeds) and if done properly by the right trainer and is taken on with knowledge and responsibility it is another sport that can be participated in by your dogs and yourself and is a GREAT outlet provided you have the time, the dog and can be responsible for this type of thing...

Lil96... Police dogs are trained in this manner as are many civilian dogs and breeds... I will be breeding guardian dogs in the future and want to mention that for testing of temperment in this type of breed and dog this work/sport is necessary... They are a dominant breed (GSD's, Rotts, etc...) and must as each standard calls for, display bravery etc... The only way to TEST for this behavior and temperment is to work in this type of sport... This ensures that the dogs used for breeding are the best representatives of the breed physically and can tempermentally take what the breed is meant to handle... THIS weeds out the possibility of acquiring a large powerfull dog that has tempermental problems associated with weak nerves... things like fear biting or fearfull aggression...this also insures that the breeding dogs are HIGHLY trainable etc... If I were to decide to purchase a GSD...I would look towards performance and working lines to ensure that I would get a healthy and correct puppy....pet quality dogs don't posess the necessary drives as working quality dogs do but they do posess the trainability and the strong stable temperment necessary in working in this feild... THIS type of training should be done by some (a select few) dependent on breed etc...

I hope that all made sense and I realize where you are coming from on this subject... I hope I had a chance to educate you as to the reasons most people persue this work with their animals. I would much rather know my dog comes from stable, trainable, healthy parents that have accomplished some working titles etc... Even if she/he would only be a couch potato and a deterrant of criminals by sitting on my front step...that's generally all that's necessary in terms of every day type protection.

 

http://bantamkennels.com/

Here's my website...go to the "Links" section and scroll down to the bottom to the "Working Orgs." list and you can see all the different main pages for each different sport and a rundown of what each of them consists of etc... Cane Corso's seem to excell in PSA and the more defensive driven sports rather than the OB and "form" driven sports like Schutzhund... MANY people haven't dealt with bully and mastiff breeds so be carefull what trainer you work through...make sure they have experience with mastiffs and/or bully breeds and know how to handle them... GSD and hearding types will take much more in terms of "abuse" or tough handling than the mastiffs and Bulldogs will...a GSD trainer who's never worked with a mastiff or Bulldog and has tunnel vision can ruin your dog before the "testing" phase is even over... be VERY carefull in ALL aspects of this type of training... your liability for damages goes up and up and up after you've trained a dog in this manner. For example...had the dogs that attacked Diane Whipple been attack trained (Schutzhund or any other protection sport) these folks would have been up for 1st degree murder and likely would not have gotten off as easy as they did.

 

Yea I think it just takes too much to find that perfect dog, it could be really greetly tested and what not great lines, and then something just snaps in it one, just like any other dog (not trained to be prtoecting). I guess I just don't understand why someone would want their dog to learn to be so protective. I like nice gentle dogs. I know 2 people with dogs that have trained for this, the one dog I trust and I don't have a problem with and the other worries me, it could also have been their trainers and background.

 

A protection dog correctly trained without traumatic injury or other possible illnesses is not likely to ever just "snap" out of the blue without provocation or reason... A dog from a background of stable dogs that have gone through extensive training of this type etc... will likely be more stable than a dog of the same breed coming from breeders who are not testing for ability and stability of charcter in this way etc...

Keep in mind that when I refer to dogs trained in this manner coming from lines and parents trained in this manner I am speaking of guardian breed dogs... VERY different than APBT's or Labs or "fluffy" in terms of ingraned genetic behaviors and characteristics... It is all contextual is what I'm trying to say and for someone who wants to purchase a serious breed dog it is better to purchase said dog from breeders who train and title their dogs in the "job" of the breed to establish that the purchased puppy is stable and correct in temperment for the breed...

Say you get a Fila that is not from a breeder who trains in Protection work (Fila's are bred to be protective with a very SERIOUS nature about them...they are very LARGE and very dominant and powerfull)... You acquire a puppy from the breeder who knows his dogs are protective of his property but who didn't do much socialization with them but they seem right in temperment to him and even perhaps a little bit better because the approach new things with "gusto"... So this guy breeds a litter...sells you a pup... You raise said pup at home and socialize as much as you can... Pup gets bigger and bigger and more and more protective and at 3 years old and 120lbs this dog has become unmanageable and OVERLY aggressive and even fearfull of things... SAY this dog got mased by a postal carrier... now he's crazy to attack anything that comes to the gate...etc...

Likelihood is that the parents of said dog were not protective out of being of strong and stable temperment but were protective becuase of weak nerves and fearfull behavior... The breeders didnt' know it because well...they'd never learned about what things are important and needed for a correct and stable protector... It snowballs into vicious animals that kill people...

Okay second scenario... You decide on a Fila after serious education...you purchase said Fila from a kennel that specializes in producing working dogs for businesses and law enforcement abroad...you want a pet rather than a guardian but a pet that will likely protect... Breeder sells you a pup that is lacking dominance drive and prey drive that is easily manipulated and trained but that is not shy... (other breeder has no idea how to pick something like this out...) Parents of this pup are stable and obedient and have passed SEVERAL levels of protection type sports with HIGH merits...(ALL these sports require OB trials as well as the famed and publicized bite trials)... Your pup comes home to you...you socialize and train in OB and the pup gets maced by the mailman...you run out to calm pup and mailman down and at once pup is at ease and is re-assured by your presence and demeanor that mailman isn't a threat... Pup is okay next time mailman comes and pup is outside... Well bred pup v pup out of okay dogs that were never trained or tested to make sure they were worthy of reproducing....from breeders who were not trained to be able to see what is worthy and what is not...

THIS is why Protection training is a GOOD thing when it comes to keeping and breeding and raising guardian breeds...EVEN if you want a pet but a serious breed...learning this type of thing (not training the dog necessarily) will give the owner of such a dog a HUGE step up in keeping one of these tough breeds out of the headlines.

 

I don't think I would leave my dog outside, if I thought it would scare the mailman, mailmen are easily frightened. But I still don't understand why someone would want to train their dog to protect.

 

People train in protection sports to compete in the many trials with their dogs or to do what the name implies... Protect them... There are folks out there who really need dogs to protect them or their land or their livestock.

Whether you leave your own dog outside or not I think you gathered my point... I want my dogs trained or at least tested by a conpetent trainer before breeding for the outlined reasons in the last posts I made...that should honestly make sense and if it doesn't then you likely shouldn't ever own a large guardian type breed....

 

Oh yeah and you may not want to do it or understand it but others do... I myself would never want to own a lap dog or toy breed....working or sport dogs are it and I can't imagine why anyone would want a toy or lap dog myself...but they do and I understand that they are different from me and have different goals and values than I myself do... I've just been trying to help you understand what those goals and values may be....and that there are good people who train in this type of stuff...not just thugs and abusers as some people assume.

 

Thanks for the good info, Sara! I hope more people take it to heart and really THINK before training a dog in protection sports. It's not something I would ever do, but I can see the appeal.

 

I hoped it would have that effect... I see both points of veiw and have respect for both of them... A LOT of respect for both...LOL... I DON'T have respect for those who think dogs will make them tougher and train them to be "mean" rather than to compete or do a job per instructions of owner or based on the level of threat that the owner meets with a trained dog... A well trained dog will do what is necessary to keep threat at bay...they won't go overboard.

 

my real father had a retired police dog. a big black lab at that. The dog was a WONDERFUL family pet.for two years never had to use his "working" comands or had to be a "serious" working dog. He layed around and chewed on ol tennishoes and tennisballs. NEver showed signs of agression, as a matter of fact you'd have never known he was a police dog for 6 years!!!
One day a guy broke in the back door through the sliding glass door. The dog went into total defense mode as he was trained to do in the police force. The guy had a gun, went to pull it out to use it on my father, and the dog leap up, grabbed the guys arm with the gun in it and saved him.
Unfortunately the guy pulled the trigger and hit "Bosephus". It punctured the bottom of his lung and his stomach and went through the intestines. There wasn't anything they could do to save him.

But if the dog hadn't had that training, I wouldn't have a father today.
he was not an overly protective dog, but knew his instinct and even after two years of being a bum and a family pet,he still knew what to do.

 

Perfect example of why people have their dogs trained in this manner and a perfect example of a dog's behavior that is trained in this manner... For example's sake...say the fellow didn't shoot but instead dropped the gun and froze in place (most people don't know how to stop flailing and screeming mind you) I bet Bocephus (sp?) would have dropped into a "bark and Hold" rather than a bite! THIS is what I mean by control and the strength of character needed to work in this feild and why you want a dog bred to be more dominant (not labish but Akita or GSDish) to have a more stable temperment...like the lab... WHAT a story!!!!

I have a Boerboel story about a farm dog...interresting it saved it's owners but left the farm to the villains (dog was way outpowered) and waited at the gate for mom and dad...accompanied them to the house and when the man tried to grab dad and shoot him dog intervened and saved dad... He was shot but not seriously and will recouperate...

Anyway...characteristics needed for PP type work require a dog to be as placid as your lab yet as reactive as well...and as SMART about his reactions... I'd much rather that than a loaded gun without a safety.

 

Oh yes and I have to say that I'm sorry your family had to lose Bocephus in this manner.... Did the criminal at least get punished for his crimes ...not just attempted Robbery but I know there are laws on the books about service dogs even if retired...so did he get in trouble for killing him?

 

I fI remember correctly ( I was young when this happened) My dad (a HUGE ex-military guy) had grabbed his shot gun, didn't fire or anything, but held him there until the cops arrived. The guy he got the dog from was first on the scene. The guyis still in jail I believe, he had several armed robbery warrents and a couple assault with a deadly weapons charges.

The dog had a full military/police funeral service. There's a news paper article about it somewhere.....I'llsee if I can't find it, scann it and post it. With a photo of him. He was a Massive Lab. I still dont' think he was pure bred due to his size...but could have been.

 

I've not heard of many protection labs but I have heard of a couple... Chesie's are good at that kind of thing too...or would be...they're naturally pretty aggressively protective of their people... That suff facinates me!