Show pics and new dog!!!

Well, I think we did rather well this past weekend at the ARBA show. I was a bit disapointed that Byeboer didn't place as high as he should have. He's lost a good deal of weight. I've got females coming back into heat and Faith had her first heat! GRRRR... so he refused to eat for 4 days before the show, and is still not wanting too.... Grrr. he scored excellent and higher than the dog that took the place, but because he wasn't nice and fat, he didn't get the place...which makes no sense to me... I had the better dog, but hers took first, and I recieved a better score..... Chaulk another one up to Conformation politics and shows!

Anyway.. faith did great! She was attacked by a Leonberger (sp) and was a bit fearful of that spot, but showed great!

We came home with:

Faith: 3 Very good scorings and one Excellent
four class wins and first places. Best of Opposite Sex and Winners Bitch,

Boe:
First and three seconds with all excellent scores and a best of Breed, Winners Dog, and two Reserve Winners Group and one Second place Working Group win.





AND I came home unexpectedly with a new dog!
Rayna and I now co-own Arcadyan's Sir Leopold!! he's Faiths full brother and littermate. He was top pic and is a big boy! He's nine months old and weighs in at 119lbs. LOL
He's in the goofy puppy stage, but a beautiful boy no doubt and has GREAT manners. Very polite dog and knows alot of the obediance commands. I'll have his hips checked and baer, cerf, cardiac and pulmanary tests done and brucellosis this Thursday and if all looks great, he'll be our newest addition.

Him and Faith

 

OH! Byeboer is the one on the right by the way. Large dark red. LOL

 

Hey it seems you showed against my favorite foe! Wish you'd have been capable of kicking his butt...shows are so political though and with the rare breeds there are so many people judging the dogs who have NO idea what the breed should really look like. I saw a few pics of the dog and my Hermionee looks better than he does it seems...WAY more beefy and she's a girl! I think the judge was a little blind....sounds like most of them out there had a God complex too...urgh... Shows are tough. Is the new dog Faith's littermate??? Can't remember.

Sara

 

Yeah. Sad part is i had to give them MY breed standard. LOL

Rayna showed Faith. did a great job at it. Leo is aka Arnold out of the litter.

 

Just to clarify a few of the untruths perpetuated here...

I can tell you really do love your dog, and that is really nice to see.

I'm a little confused as to why you felt it necessary to go on a public forum and speak negatively of my dog. Especially after I, and my friends, made an effort to make you feel welcomed and encouraged throughout the weekend.

"Nice and Fat" really had nothing to do with the judges' decisions last weekend. Sebastian, who placed higher than your dog 3 times out of 4, is smaller than your dog and quite lean. He's 27 inches tall and 143 pounds.

Sebastian has never been rated below "Excellent" at any ARBA show, so I am not sure how Byeboer could've "scored" higher. Perhaps you can enlighten me?

Regarding "Politics and shows". This was only the third and fourth day of conformation showing that either Sebastian or I had ever done. You, on the other hand, hired a professional handler to take your dog into the ring. If anyone would have gained a political advantage, it would have been you.

We didn't just defeat ByeBoer and Faith over the weekend, we had Two Group 2's and One Group 3...and the last time we showed ARBA he took a Group 2 and Reserve Best in Show.

Regarding the "better dog"...

Have you been modest or has ByeBoer accomplished something outside of doing well at one IABCA show and producing a boatload of puppies in a short amount of time?

Sebastian is one of only three dogs in the history of the breed to earn a Schutzhund BH degree (judged by the SchH USA VP), he has a CGC, does drag weighting and agility, is my demo dog at Obedience classes and seminars and my running partner, has all the drives and desire to be a full-time cowdog or catch dog and does Personal Protection training with one of the world's best trainers and competitors in Schutzhund. He could ACE a TDI test and would make a wonderful therapy dog if I decided to employ him in that regard....and that will be happening in the near future. My point being...his structure has held up under a lot of work because he's built exactly as a Boerboel should be, so that it can carry out the jobs they are required to perform...all without breaking down.

If anyone would like to see pics of my dog, who has been labelled as "Nice and Fat", please check out the USBA Message Board, there are a number of pics and the full show results for the weekend.

Sara...why are you trying to be inflammatory? My dog never growls at humans, even in PP work, he skips the growl and goes straight to the bark. He growled once during the entire weekend as a result of the other dog acting up in the ring. That's one growl at one dog, in the first of EIGHT classes over the weekend. Your even trying to allude that my dog growled at a judge when you defended someone else's dog for biting a spectator at a show, is one of the more ridiculous and laughable things you've done. Incidentally, I have that class on video.

 

Not trying to be infammatory...I'm simply giving back what you so brilliantly have given towards me in the past.

Either way the dog growled at a dog show which in my mind has only set in stone my idea that dog shows are tough on dogs...even SCH. tested dogs and in reality no one can expect a rough tough Boerboel to be a nicey, nicey fashion accessory at a dog show. As far as the dog you eluded to biting a spectator...the only defence for him is certainly that he grew up unsocialized in a totally different Country than our own and was rather new to the whole show issue...one more thing though that gives me reason to believe and feel that dog shows give people a false view of what a dog is... I feel for folks showing Fila's out there especially since the judgeing has come to include the ability of the judge to touch the dog...

I agree that politics in the people sense did have little to do with the placing as there was a professional handler out there which a judge likes better...it's only the fact that most judges judgeing conformation have not seen many Boerboels and are at a bit of a loss...I guess it's less political than it is subjective...and from a rare breed stand point, it is tough.

My point in making a comment about your dog in the first place had nothing to do with Butch and everything to do with your own comments about MY dog's behavior...I figured since I'd only heard about some growling it'd be a perfect time to point it out to you because well...you did the same for me back when...it feels crappy and makes ya mad right?

Truce, my job here is done.

Sara

 

Funny how you meantioned "growling".

Your dog did growl several times. Even when someone approched with a puppy in arms, he even told meyour dog got very aggitated and grumbled.

He's not a bad dog, Never said he was, he was nice and fit, Byeboer was not. He's underweight just as the judges and I both agreed apon. As for "scoring" I spoke with all the judges to get critiques on my dog and what their oppinions were as to how to better him other than 'weight' which I KNOW why he's "leaned" I have bitches in heat and he can't have them.
They told me, not some spectator, that I was the only one that got the "excellent" scorings. So if the judges gave you the excellents as well, then I'm sorry. I was informed wrong on THEIR choices and comments.

As for producing a "BUTTLOAD" of puppies. YES i did. Kabukis was an accident i took full responcibility for. WHo by the way came out with OFA good hips along with ALL my dogs. NO to meantion passed all other health and temperament testings. The fact that they produced 14 puppies each was out of my hands. However, I assure you, they ALL are going to GREAT homes that have been heavily screened and with strict contracts. Things that I can say alot of breeders do not care about.

As for "trash talking you" i have not. Only stated my oppinions and observations. Never said you didn't beat me. One judges oppinion is just that. If there were more shows in resonable distances, I'd attend, unfortunately my education gets in the way of alot of that. And bettering myself is high priority along with my dogs. Everything else is second on the list.

Now Back to our regularly scheduled postings....










Sara, How'd Bella do? And are you taking your new pit to the next ADBA show?

 

Sam, You know for a fact that Seb doesn't growl, because I told you this. You asked me if he groweld a lot and I said NO, that he plays with my minpins all the time. I never thought that you would bash someone like this. It is rude, and nothing but lies, and it now shows your true colors.
As far as the puppy goes, I can't believe that man even bought a puppy from you considering what kind of conditions they were in at the show. A crate full of feces. They were sleeping in it. The puppies were filthy, and smelt and had really dirty ears. If anyone doesn't believe me, then please email me and I would be happy to videos of Seb and Bo showing along with the audio of Sam asking me if Seb growled a lot, and me saying no, and also pictures of the nasty puppies that were there. Please stop telling lies, and also please cut back on the amount of litters of puppies you produce. It makes you look like a puppymill.Good day. :mrgreen:

 

Filthy? FILTHY??? Oh one had an accident and one spilled food. Please. I took those puppies to the show for socialization, and they walked outside every hour or so. One accident makes them filthy?? As for smelling, they had baths AT THE SHOW before it the first day.... but yeah, they stink...ok. whatever.

And for me being rude. I'm not the one that talked crap the whole time at the show. MANY people approached me and let me know what was said, so as far as you saying "tying to make me feel welcome" yeah, you did a great job at that. And talking crap to my handlers?? Did you think they wouldn't come back and tell me?? And they're GREAT people and deserve EVERY penny that they make. I thought it VERY rude that you "Spiffed" at them and called them "overpriced" That was rude.

Yeah, you said he didn't growl. There were plenty of people there to attest to the fact that he did!!! You even came out of the ring and said so yourself that he growled!!!

As for Puppy-mill... yeah, OK whatever lady. Anyone that knows me, knows their more than welcome to call my veterinarian, and my neighbors for references. As for the health of my puppies. Their in TOP heath. And receive the best of care. IF I was a puppy mill, they would not be. Nor would my vet bill exceed all my other bills monthly combined. There were several people there that asked about you. I kindly told them to speak with you since I didn't know you personally. Glad to see that favor was NOT returned. Instead you belittled me, insulted me and told many rumors that were NOT true.
And then being very rude to a handicap woman, and then sending her my way and sneering at her. Glad to see you got a laugh out of a woman who truly needed help. Especially seeing as how she's from your area, and you could have easily pointed her in a direction for help locally. The look on your face half the time, showed your TRUE colors.

I think its great you do what you do with your dog, however, owning ONE dog does not make you an expert....
I'm by far NO expert, but I do what I can and as much as I can to learn, and proceed to know more so I can help.

If your dog is truly so "GREAT" then why is it you said you turn down every female that comes to you??? If he's a contribution to the breed, why not help better it? Instead of acting like a high and mighty and that your better than everyone else.
I've turned down a lot of female for GOOD reasons. And choose to accept two that I feel are great contributors to making better dogs.
That's the way you come off to people whether your trying to or not. I'm a wholeheartedly nice person...and try to be nice to everyone.
I'm by far no expert

 

Julie said he dog growled one time at another dog who was being a spaz. Tell me one dog who doesn't growl at an unstable dog????????
As far as Julie turning down bitches to be bred, it is called being responsible. Most "reputible breeders" don't breed their dogs before they are championed out anyway. Is BO a champion??????? Another thing is, are you willing to take back every single one of those puppies you have produced? Do you know and keep up with them all? Julie is doing things the right way. It is called quality, not quanity!!! I would love to know what clinic you take your dogs too. I work for one of the top speciality vet hospitals in TX and so we know a lot of the regular vets out there. Where did you get your dogs CERFS and HIPS done at?
You might be a nice perosn, but you aren't acting like one by putting other people and their dog down. You are right, Julie only has one dog, she isn't a collector. AND she has trained thousands of dogs and has had previous dogs before Seb. I am sure you will bash me also, because I am not slinging puppies, but I have put plently of titles on my two dogs and I am very very young to be doing as well as I am. Please inform me of what titles your dogs have.

 

downward spiral in full effect

Sam,

D. told me she had been to this board and posted. I came to see what she wrote (see dmc's post). Let's demystify D. a bit...She’s already reached a very respectable level of success in competing with her dogs, close to "Rock Star" status, and she champions the ethics of hardcore working enthusiasts with her endless energy. She’s a really good friend and she was offended on my (and Seb’s) behalf.

I am the same person I was at the show. Even after you wouldn't say two words to me in the parking lot, I understood where it was coming from and didn't get offended. I really believe in people getting their dogs out and proving them by an independent third party in as many disciplines as possible. It denotes a sense of pride in the dog and if you're working with the dog, you know them much better.

Lilly walked up to me after she handed the dog to you, immediately after the first show on day 2, and asked if ByeBoer was limping. I said that I hadn't really been watching him and watched him walk off. I told her all I could see was some weird action in his elbow but I couldn't tell if it was coming from his elbow or his feet. She asked my opinion and I don't believe I was rude about it.

My dog growled once all weekend and that was during the first show...and it was directed at ByeBoer. He didn't growl at a puppy, he tried to sniff it, as any dog would when an unknown dog butt is being held over their head, and I told him to leave it. I can't even fathom where you're getting the idea that he was running around growling all day. Remember when ByeBoer was allowed to bound up and stick his nose in Seb's butt? What did my dog do? He walked away with me. If a dog is looking for trouble or scared, that would have been all the provocation they would need. Safe distance is standard Boerboel handling protocol. He did try and stare at an American Bulldog several times and was corrected for it. The AB’s handler approached me later and apologized for his dog because he hadn't been around many big dogs and was vibing everyone. If you knew me better, you would know how little tolerance I have for any bad behavior and growling is waaay beyond the scope of what I would tolerate.

Lilly is a friend of Cynthia's, whom I adore and have known for years...I wouldn't dream of saying something rude to or about anyone she is so fond of.

I adhere to the philosophy of proving a stud before using him. By proving, I mean knowing exactly what drives are present, which need improving, how he will mature (most male Boele aren't done until 4), how his tendons, joints, muscles and biddability hold up under years of use and work. Then there’s a plethora of health tests. We are almost there, but the same applies to the female one chooses to breed to...I need to know ALL about her work ethic and really like what I see and how the two match up..not to mention genetic diversity...before I would consider it. Two dogs, no matter how nice they are individually, don't necessarily have genes that match up in the progeny. That is why super-dedicated breeders offer an iron-clad guarantee, keep the majority of the first litter for awhile to watch it develop, or place those pups for less in working homes where they are going to get objective feedback. Then there's the culling aspect for temperament in this breed...it's an ugly reality and I am doing what I have to do to minimize that chance. I can’t count on the average b*tch owner to go to those lengths and I have a hard time wavering in the regard. This is a working breed and there needs to be concrete evidence of all this when choosing a working prospect. There was one proven dog in the US when my search began in 2001. Even now there are so few people who are trying to preserve this trait, it gets more difficult to find the right genetics without the influence from dogs that we already now won’t hold up.

I told the handicapped lady that a Boerboel wasn't a good choice for an assistance animal and someone else told her you had puppies for sale. I did tell her that she needed a dog that was highly biddable and possessed a healthy drive to retrieve but wasn’t high energy.

It feel like everything someone said this weekend, that you didn't like or took the wrong way, has now been contributed to me. It's true that I can be blunt and honest when people are making mistakes that could end up in tragedy. For the most part, I just give people free dog training advice when they ask for it, I enjoy helping people understand how dogs think and learn, share my knowledge on genetics and working dogs and encourage them to get out and have fun with their dogs. I am deeply bothered that you think I would have been any other way to people seeking help. I would really prefer to be able to talk openly and honestly with you about dogs but I think you might be in that phase I was in for several years. That is absolutely not intended to sound unkind or judgmental…it’s just a stage all serious dog people go through. I’ve been at this for a long time, Sam. Not thousands as D. so generously stated, but I've worked with 900-sum-odd dogs and have had dogs, both personal and clients', appear on TV in 27 countries. My old Winnie dog bought us a Jeep Cherokee with what she earned in one summer. I have been fortunate to work with some very talented trainers... still learning at every turn. I've also had my arm broken and face ripped open by a psycho 150 pound Akita that had a grapefruit sized brain tumor. Once you have personally experienced that kind of thing, you're perspective on dogs changes and a lot of objectivity comes with it.

I think you already know this...but I want to make sure...I was genuinely happy for you when ByeBoer won his class. You were so happy and I thought about how it would have felt to have gone to all that effort without earning a CAC. I'm competitive because I have dedicated a huge chunk of my life to this, but I possess far too much empathy to be cut-throat.

The thing with Sara is just one of those things that manifests with history in a breed…I think she and I just need to ignore each other…you know, the whole, “If you can’t say something nice” philosophy.

Yes, there are things that you do and have done and will do that I won’t agree with. There are a lot of people who I have not agreed with in the past that I now fully respect, and they know it because we talk and don’t slander and they (and I) have grown as professionals. And…when I type “boatload” I don’t mean “buttload”, the meaning changes considerably when it’s read correctly.

I think this clears everything up from my side. You can believe all those horrible things you think my dog and I did this weekend, or you can relax and see the truth.

 

Like I said once before and I'll say it again. My dogs are FULLY health tested and I use Lone Start Animal Clinic of Victoria. I'm not afraid to put that out and there and Yes all have passed.

As for me being capable of taking every puppy back. Yes I would. Its in my contract and I have taken back puppies before. Financially its not a problem and I have the mind to know if there's ever a temperament issue that it be dealt with the proper way, or if there's a severe health issue it be done the same. NO I'm not talking PTS, I'm talking about testings and working with them. If it did come to that, then I would take it as an option.

If you weren't' the one spreading the rumors and making the horrible accusations, then I apologize and those several people who told me the same thing over and over again were wrong for doing so. I just find it hard to believe that you would deny it when SEVERAL people told me the same thing and that it came out of YOUR mouth.
How would all these people tell me things when they didn't even know each other.

As for me "Milling" and not caring about my puppies... If that's what I was after I wouldn't have deterred the woman from buying a puppy. DO you know how many people I've gone through to make sure my puppies are placed in good homes? My kennels have been inspected and each time I add new equipment or a kennel extension, I get them inspected again. But your right, I'm a miller!

I planned to produce two litters with Byeboer to see what I got. If he was even worth keeping as a stud. Kabuki was accidental as I have said several times and no I did not expect them to ALL have 13 and 14 puppies. The fact that they did is good. Shows they are capable of it. and No i have no plans on breeding Vader or Kabuki for quite some time.

The reason I didn't speak two words to you in the parking lot, is the fact I had YET another spectator tell me words that you had said. And in order to keep the peace, I bit my tongue.

As for working in a Good Clinic. GOOD for you!
I'm just lucky we have a great clinic out here and Dr Zeplin is as knowledgeable and strict as she is. If she finds a flaw she's the first to stay something. Shes absolutely wonderful and has gone above and beyond to help me when there's been a problem.

Feel free to ever give her a call! Her information is on my site. Since obviously you think I just pulled all the health scores and tests out of my ass. It takes a lot of money to breed. And you get VERY little back. Money is NOT what I'm in this for. Precious is one of the most awesome females out there and I'd be happy to get just ONE just like her out of her. she's saved our lives countless times. Awesome health stats and temperament.

I know exactly where your coming from and honestly the show circuit is cut throat. But I did cheer for you each time you went in for group. But I guess that makes me the "bad" person, seeing as how comments were made after every show.

I'm sure our lines will cross again as I don't intend on stopping showing, and I'd appreciate it if you'd show me the same courtesy as I showed you and not tell people lies and stories. If they want to know something about one of my dogs, send them my way as I did to you.

 

I don't like that philosophy especially in dogs... mainly because it makes the assumption that one or the other can't say something nice...which from my end is not true... I respect your ethics Julie...and I respect your work and the work you've done with the dogs...I respect most anyone out there working their dogs even if I don't see eye to eye with them. The only problem is that when an opinion or thought is shared in a disrespectful manner... Which is the rub of the internet communication. I've never spoken to you personally so I could never say that I know you...might say I know of you and what I know OF you is that you have VERY strong opinions and that you work hard with your dogs...beyond that I could not say...

Lots of nice things said up above there...it takes effort to say this considering a few of the past arguments we've ended up in ONLINE...but all of it is honesty...I also feel the same way you do about breeding dogs...you've assumed I do not...??? I remember way back when we used to email back and forth concerning horsey items... What happened??? I think what happened was you got involved in a local issue that was happening over here...in the rockies...and have not yet been able to get past it??? I'm not sure if you've noticed but no smearing of anyone has been done...even between myself and the one person I'd been having issues with where this all started...plenty of opportunities existed where I could have jumped on the bandwagon and smeared away...making comments and accusations...but I know they are not true...I backed her up even...???

The problem is that for some reason people find online honesty incredibly difficult to beleive whether it's bad junk or good junk...which is fine...but I think it's to a level beyond. 2 years...two years old a lot of this stuff is and aside from learning a lot...time has passed and you for some reason are bent...bent on negativity coming from me...I apologize for past junk...it was personal and was not between you and I... What I post regarding you is not personal...even my comment back about your rescue...I truly was thinking that perhaps you keep the rescue since you both clicked so well...I was not slamming you...you took it that way... Honestly I wasn't slamming you this time either...I felt a little moment of justice because you had still recently been commenting about my dog Riot's behavior at a Weight Pull that took place more than two years ago...behavior you did not see...behavior that you did not know the context of...and you insinuated much more than I could ever have insinuated. I was curious about Seb's behavior based on what I'd heard happened and wondered if there was something behind it...correlation between what kind of stress caused it etc...

I will never even show against your dog so I have no reason to smear him or to smear you... I'm not sure if you understand this or not... It's out in the open... There.

Sara