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Discussion in 'Dogs - Pit bull breeds specific' started by Walt, May 14, 2004.

  1. Walt

    Walt New Member

    By: Dr. John Fudens, D.V.M.

    I would like to give you, the reader, the truth about the so called required vaccinations, particularly rabies. There are two basic forms of law. One is the legal Constitutional and Common law that this country was founded on, and the other is "colorable" law passed by Administrative agencies/bureaucrats who have been given so called authority to pass laws. Black's Law Dictionary 5th Edition defines colorable law as "That which is in appearance only, and not in reality, what purports to be, hence counterfeit, feigned, having the appearance of truth." Yes, I study the law, am a paralegal, and have an extensive law library.

    So any and all mandatory rabies vaccination programs are colorable law, in that they have been passed and mandated upon the pet owning public by certain vested interest groups. Who are these groups? First and foremost are veterinarians, in general, and veterinarian medical organizations. Second are the local animal control personnel, bureaucrats and politicians. What are their reasons? GREED, POWER AND CONTROL. Both these large powerful interest groups stand to benefit greatly by having rabies mandated by colorable law.

    Veterinarians receive a large percentage of both their gross income and profit from vaccines given in the office. On average vaccines cost 60 to 95 cents per dose and are charged to the client at $15 to $25 per injection and substantially more in the large cities. Therefore, if veterinarians lobby to have a colorable law passed to give rabies vaccine every year that enhances their financial picture.

    The veterinary medical societies, by working with other groups and area politicians, are rewarded by increased prestige and professional standing in the community. After all we are protecting you from the dreaded disease rabies, whether it exists or not. Some areas of the country are more enlightened and fortunate to have the rabies vaccine mandated every three years. You can be assured the rise of rabies is never taken into account as to whether the vaccine should be required or not. More on this later. The local government personnel benefit by extending more control over our lives, enriching the public treasury with fees, tags and fines, and giving the appearance that local government is doing something about animal populations, disease and risks to the public. Since rabies vaccines have been mandated, what county or area has seen less dog and cat bites, better animal control, more public awareness and educating of pet owning responsibility, better birth control of unwanted animals, less euthanasia of animals and decreased growth of animal control facilities?

    These special groups and lobbies will use any argument, realistic or not, to justify their position. They are excellent at using the media to spread the lies and distortions. Examples: We have increased numbers of dogs biting people, pitbulls attacking and killing children are on the increase, more dogs and cats are running loose terrorizing neighborhoods, killing wildlife and other domestic stock, etc...ad nausaem. The only thing rabies vaccination is for is the protection from rabies virus, all other justifiers for the vaccine fall under human control and exist because there are a certain number of humans, connected to animals, who are irresponsible. Rabies is spread by the bite of an infected animal. The number of dog/cat bite cases in the U.S. that expose humans to rabies is as rare as shark attacks. This low incident rate has nothing to do with mandatory vaccination as the number of cases was low before the mandatory requirement.

    Let me give you an example of Pinellas County, FL where my Affinity Clinic is located. I secured information from Pinellas Animal Control through the Freedom of Information Act. The record of animal control starts in 1964. From 1964 to 1978 there were zero cases of dog rabies in the county. Magically in 1978 rabies vaccine was mandated to be given every year and all dogs tagged and licensed. WHY? Well it seems four veterinarians, with animal control bureaucrats, pushed the county board of supervisors to pass a law mandating rabies vaccination every year. There were three local vets and one professor from the State Veterinary College who were behind this. It was interesting reading their letters pushing this law and the minutes of the county meeting. There was talk of dogs biting people (no actual figures given), dogs running loose, animal overpopulation, rabies on the increase in the U.S. (the increase was in wildlife, not dogs), etc.,etc. Not once was the issue discussed that there was no rabies in the county in dogs. To this date there still has not been one case of dog rabies, including the population of dogs whose owners, GOD BLESS THEM, do not vaccinate for rabies. Let's go further.

    From 1964 to 1989 there were no cases of rabies in cats in Pinellas County. Magically in 1989 a law was passed mandating rabies vaccination, tags and licenses for all cats. Same tired worn out excuses were used. Since the 1989 law there was one cat with rabies contracted from the bite of a bat. DO YOU READERS REALLY UNDERSTAND WHAT I HAVE JUST STATED? This is standard throughout the Country. No allowance is made for dogs/cats who never leave the house or yard, could never be exposed to rabies under any circumstances, or who are so ill, old or at the end of their life cycle that the rabies vaccine would throw them over the edge. No, all dogs and cats are treated the same because we have the bogeyman, rabies, stalking the streets waiting to strike unprotected dogs and cats.

    Is there rabies in this Country? You bet. Are there areas of this Country that have rabies in their wildlife population and do some dogs/cats become infected? You bet. But let's be realistic. Rabies has been on this earth long before man walked here and will be here long after we are gone. The only way to get rid of rabies is to remove mankind and the upper animals susceptible to the virus. Then maybe the virus will die off. It is a self limiting disease in the wild as it is fatal. So the virus has an extremely hard time spreading far and wide.

    What is wrong with targeting those areas of the Country that have a problem with rabies using a realistic and specially formulated program that will protect the population at risk? Too logical and the special groups don't make any money. Why not educate the pet owner to the risks and dangers and let them decide whether the immune system damage from rabies vaccination is greater or lesser than contracting the disease. We do have a God given Constitutionally secured right to LIFE, LIBERTY, AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS. Public health officials always have the right to mandate emergency health care procedures in case the public, in general does not respond properly. But why should every day, month and year be as if an emergency or crisis exists? And why should we have more and more control of our lives taken from us?

    The vaccines, particularly rabies, are a political and economic scam being forced upon pet owners because they do not know the truth. Rabies, nationwide, is nowhere near the problem the veterinarians, media, politicians and bureaucrats would like you to believe. If you wish more of the truth go to your local city or county government building and look up the codes and statutes concerning vaccines and rabies. Get figures from local animal control for rabies in dogs, cats and wildlife in your area. Then you can start to fight back, take control of your life, and protect your pet from the only dreaded disease that is important--special interest groups pushing their program leading to vaccine induced damaged immune systems. Only you can set yourself free.

    Current Veterinary Therapy by Kirk, the textbook bible for veterinarians in general, has an article on canine and feline vaccines by two researchers. Near the end of the article is a paragraph called Annual Vaccinations. It states "The practice of annual vaccinations lacks scientific validity or verification. There is no immunological requirement for annual vaccinations. The practice of annual vaccinations should be considered of questionable efficacy unless it is used as a mechanism to provide an annual physical examination or is required by law." Sure, if we can't manipulate you with annual vaccinations let's pass a law to get you into the office. Nice trick!

    Well reader, it is your choice. I can only hope to stimulate you to look and go further. You don't have to take this suppression. Fight back. The only thing you have to lose is your freedom and you have already lost a great deal of it. I can fight with you but I can't do it alone.


    Wow! Does he tell it like it is or what! Dr. Fudens can be contacted at the Affinity Holistic Clinic, 1171 Lakeview Road, Clearwater, Florida. Phone: (727) 446-3603.
  2. kyles101

    kyles101 New Member

    i dont know much about rabies vaccines as we do not have rabies here in western australia. but as for the annual vaccines that is pretty careless of this person to say it is not needed anually. ive heard this vaccine thing before. so many people have convinced themselves that their vet is conspiring against them to gain money over vaccinations. because one animal may last a few years without a vaccine doesnt mean another will. its crazy and its putting pets lives at risk. its like the whole debate where parents dont want to immunise their children because of the fear of a extremely tiny percantage of reaction or because they think they simply dont need it because the disease being immunised against isnt common. im all for holistic vets etc but its going too far when these people say scrap the lifesaving vaccine. next minute they will be saying dont give your pets ANY meds given by the vet. please dont fall into this trap...
  3. Sara

    Sara New Member

    Before deciding not to update pets vaccinations... Get Titers done...then you know if you need to do it or not...you have records of what immunity they still have in their systems etc...

    The vaccination thing is a very real issue and has real merits...but as people do with everything...it can be taken to extremes and that is never a good thing.
  4. Walt

    Walt New Member

    I always get get my dogs vaccinated but I also always wondered how much of this Mandatory medicine is actualy nesasary.

    Sara where can I look up Titers?
  5. True_Pits

    True_Pits New Member

    Rabies vaccs can be very important to your animal. I don't know how high the price for the vaccs can actually get. Mine cost me $2.50 each dose.

    Its not careless just honest. They don't need an annual rabies vacc to be protected from the virus. Virus vaccs dog, human or whatever don't require a once a year vac to protect. The dog is immune and safe. Yes over vaccs do cause damage and are unecessary. Some vets are honest and will tell you this. In some states you have to have yearly rabies vaccs in other states you are only required to have them every other year. Hmmm just think about that, if their is such a great rabies risk and need for annual vacs why in some states do they only require every other year.

    What do you mean by convince? Basically that is what they are doing, "conspiring" if you'd like to call it that. Maybe you didn't realize but pharmisutical companies do the same thing and some Drs will prescribe meds that are not needed. Some insurance will only pay for the lowest care. People do these things for money. I was watching a show (fictional) where a ph company donated med supplies to the free clinic. A lady could have and almost did die, b/c she had asthma and had got an inhaler from the free clinic. She did use it and she was still having the attack. One of the docs checked over the inhaler and it was basically air. Another Dr couldn't figure it out, so she went and checked all the inhalers and they were all the same. She was angry and approahed the ph guy and told him off about it. He of course acted like nothing was wrong like they always do. Not denying or admitting. The company donated the meds to look good and get publicity, they donated defected or inactive meds to SAVE MONEY because it cost a lot of money to have these properly detroyed. By donating them they killed 2 birds with one stone. This was just a TV program, but things like this happen all the time. From vets to our docs. They are already making all kinds of laws that prevent us from getting meds in Canada where it is much cheaper. Then their was the cancer drugs that were diluted to make more money. That resulted in a lot of law suits and a prison term. 2 people I know both died as a result of this. My cousin is now permanently mentally handicapped because of an allergic reaction to his childhood vaccine. Most docs practicing don't do it because they care about people, they do it to make money and the ph companies do it even more so. They are not manufacturing meds because they want to help people, but because they want to make money. Otherwise they wouldn't end up being so expensive, docs wouldn't do certain things or give certain meds that they get paid for pushing out. What is the AIDs med that really works? Started out just being a normal medication, extremely cheap to manufacture and at a very low price to consumers. As soon as it was found out to have a great effect on HIV the price sky rocketed and more than quadrupled. Its the only treatment that works this good, it doesn't cure but it really works, decreases the effects, exstends life and sends it into remission. So now only those who are very well off can afford this million dollar drug while people sit back and get rich. Something that would have been as cheap as penn is now at an unbelievable price. Vets do a lot of silly things that are unrequired. They gives meds that you may not need. The rabies is the biggest thing as far as anyone believing a dog actually needs annual boosters for a virus. They should however be vacc no matter how small the chance because if it were to be contracted it could possibly start an epidemic with all the unprotected animals. But no need to do it annually.

    I was watching this program last night. I wish I could remember where it was at. This was on Animal Planet I think Amazing Animals Tails or something like that. In a country their is a great epidemic of rabies, dogs and more dogs coming down with it and both children and adults contracting it by getting bit by dogs. Especially with the high stray dog population. This "vet" of some sort fills darts with a rabies vac and shoots them out of the blow gun. This is very effective, the dogs don't here the silent blow gun and he gets them while they are sleeping. Some are a little startled others just lay back down. His town is the only "rabies free zone" in the country. All because he has spent the time to vacc dogs against rabies ONCE in their lives. Like any virus their bodies become immune and produce antibodies against them. Some virus vacs do however require boosters, MUCH CLOSER then one year, every year for a dogs entire life. Such as hepititus in humans or parvo in dogs.
  6. goob

    goob New Member

    There is a lot of debate on titers in the dog community. Since they're only a single result at a given time, they mean nothing as to what your dog's immunity level will be in a week, a month, a year. Everytime your dog comes in contact with any form of a virus, it gets an automatic "booster" (assuming its immune system is healthy), because the immune system rallies to fight off any infection that may occur. That can cause titers to come up higher than they would normally be. Likewise, if your dog has not been in contact with any form of the virus, it may titer low, and be vaccinated without need, because its immune system was never triggered to produce the antibodies.

    It's hard to say what the right call is, and everybody's got their own opinion on whether to vaccinate, how often, etc. I lean towards them not needing it so often, after all, humans can go decades without ever needing boosters on their childhood vaccinations, why would dogs lose immunity after only a year?
  7. honeybears

    honeybears New Member

    if you just saw my post on the other dogs forum - my Wylie as attacked by coyotes this week. I took her to the vet, and even though her vaccine expires in 05, they gave her a rabeis booster. I should hve asked more questions, like

    why does she need a booster, its not and the vaccine is going to kill rabies right??

    In Calif, rabies vaccinations are every 3 years, and people here have said their sttes require yearly.

    So are they using a difffernt vaccine inf Calif, or does it really last that long on the states requiring one year??

    curious on this

  8. loves-da-pits

    loves-da-pits New Member

    The initial rabies vaccination is given to 3 to 4 month old puppies and again at one year from the first vaccination. And then after that every 3yrs. Although to comply with local law, you may have to give a booster every year. It's all the same vaccine, It's just up to your local government on how often they require you to do it. Here in Maricopa Co. it's every three years.
  9. True_Pits

    True_Pits New Member

    Which is basically what tells you they don't know jack. Some states it every year, some every other and now we have cali doing it every 3 years. I never give young pups a rabies vac either. The vet tries to pressure you to do it but 3 months is too young and they are still getting their otehr vaccs and I don't want to over do it. Thats where owner discretion comes in.
  10. loves-da-pits

    loves-da-pits New Member

    I don't know if you meant THEY didn't know jack or if it was I who didn't know jack. I know in my county, Maricopa Co., that if you want to get your dog licensed they have to have their rabies vaccination. If you adopt a puppy from any animal shelter or A.C.C., they have to have their rabies vaccination. In most states, they leave it up to the individual counties to set their own regulations. If an individual chooses not to rabies vaccinate their dog at a particular time, a Vet can't force you to. I chose not to give my cats the rabies vaccine because they're indoor cats. But I wanted to license my dogs and it is mandatory. Here's a site which give the desired age of vaccinations for dogs and cats.

  11. True_Pits

    True_Pits New Member

    "They" are vets. If in one state it can be 3 years how do we know the vacc doesn't last for 5 years or provide immunity for the entirety of the dogs life? I don't vac my cats either and it never crossed my mind to do so. My pups are at least 6 months old before they get their rabies vaccine.
  12. loves-da-pits

    loves-da-pits New Member

    True_Pits: That's just it, we don't really know. I guess that's what Walt's post was about. I could be a scam?!? I probably wouldn't do it at all for the fact that I want to have them licensed for the reason being:

    1. If your dog is lost and picked up by A.C.C., they are quickly reunited with familiy.

    2. If your pet is picked up, it gets a longer care period. They exhaust every option to contact the family using information in the database, as well as provide this information to the Pets911 program. If not licensed, holding time is 3 to 5 days.

    3. If your dog bites someone, it will be elegible for home quarantine instead of quarantine in the A.C.C. which could run approximately $40 a day. Quarantine can run from 14 to 21 days depending on your County's quidelines.

    This is the only reason I vaccinate for rabies. It's not so much that I worry about rabies, it's just that I want to have them licensed in case they should happen to get lost and tuned over to A.C.C. Unfortunately they go hand in hand. The rabies vaccine is $12 at the Vet. License and Rabies Vac. In AZ. Vaccinations are good for three years. License runs $20 a yr. for non-sterile and $10 a yr for sterile. I think it's money well spent so I know my dogs will be safe.
  13. kyles101

    kyles101 New Member

    true pits i was reffering to annual vaccines that didnt include rabies as we dont have rabies here [so we dont need rabies vaccines :p ] until an independent source that isnt a holistic this and that, can prove to me that they arent needed, then i will believe it. you are right in the fact that pharmacuetical companies make money off this, but did it occur to anyone that holistic vets make money off people who go down the alternate route for prevention and cure? i for one would rather my pet be safe than sorry. 60 dollars a year is a small price to pay for my dogs safety, there is no way id be taking any chances.

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