The shuffle

Bullylove, I would be interested in hearing more about "the shuffle" that allows you to have multiple dog aggressive dogs coexisting. It intrigues me! You mentioned a friend with 6 dogs and only 2 get along? If you have time to type up a sample of what she does, that would be great!


Jamiya

 

Hey jamiya: I will see what I can dig up. Its actually pretty common in bully homes. On another board I belong to there are a few who do the shuffle. It comes in really handy for ppl who do rescue.

I will try to get a hold of her and post some "strategies".

 

Here's my strategy for it. We have play time, I let out the dogs that get along in the yard for an hour or so, and we go walking ( Iusually put Hanky Spanky, and the two muttlys... Rattigan and his bro) Then I pen them back up, feed them, then let Dingo and Momma Black out, pen them and feed them......Then the rest of the time is Smokey and Chars...Red goes outside to tinkle and poo then back inside. He goes with Daddy to work, (Smokey stays at home, it too wet for him to go anyway and theres no work to be done.... :? ) Char stays in her Kennel while we're gone during the day too.

ITs just natural. Like stalling the horses separately to feed. Sassy goes in her stall and S.A. in hers. They know who's is who's and respect that. I dont have to lead them there or anything, their usually waiting for me when I get out to teh barn .

 

Well, I had that dog for only a few days that didn't get along with Nala and it was a nightmare! Nala was in the kitchen, the other dog in the family room. The cats were in the basement and the mice in the bedrooms. It was like moving from zone to zone in the house, and I divided my time and activities so I would be in each location for a little while to give the resident animal(s) some attention. (Kids? What kids? I don't think I saw them that week.)

If I wanted to watch a movie, should I watch it in the basement and give the cats some time? Or the family room? And if in the family room, then Nala is standing in the kitchen at the gate staring at me because she wants to be with me. But in order to accomplish that, then I have to do a dance with somehow switching the dogs' rooms without letting them near each other, and then the OTHER dog is standing in the kitchen at the gate staring at me...

I don't have outdoor kennels or anything like that. It just seems like it would be hard to have any quality time with any of them. Rescues are one thing, but when it's your own dogs and a permanent situation it seems really hard.


Jamiya

 

Jamiya, I understand. I am baffled at how some ppl handle the shuffle. I couldn't get a hold of my friend but from what I've seen, its pretty much what Sam said.

Just regulating everything. A lot of these dogs CAN be together but only under supervision, otherwise they are kenneled or seperated by some other means.

I know true pits has dogs that aren't together lots. Its just a matter of if one is inside the other is out ect. I personally think the shuffle would be easier with multiple dogs if some got along, that way when they are outside they have someone to play with, and the ones inside can fall all over you while you walk.

Dogs, aren't they wonderful?? If I am this obsessed with Harley, OMG I hate to think what I will be like if I ever have children. :shock:

 

Okay, I found this on another board I frequent. Like I said, it is mostly used for bully dogs, because they are prone to dog agression. Here is what I found.



The Bully Shuffle


Those of us who live in multi bully households know this dance very well. It's the dance we do at feeding time with multiple dog aggressive dogs. Or to get each of them their "free" time or "sofa" time. I am sure those of you who don't know the dance have heard of it. It starts with someone yelling "Don't open that door!" Often punctuated with a bit of swearing and door slamming as one dog is transferred from one place to another while trying to keep the dog that would really like to eat them on the opposite side of the door. Or trying to keep the dog they want to eat well out of the way. In my household it is accomplished with the help of other people. One person holding a leash and hiding behind a door with one dog as another person comes through the door with yet another dog. This dance involves living with dogs that can NEVER come face to face without complete control. It also involves taking the precaution of never even leaving two dogs that DO get along seemingly ok without human supervision. Some of us even live in situations where never two dogs shall meet. They are unsafe even leashed within the same four walls. It takes incredible dedication to the breed to be able to live this way. But when you are a lover of a breed..who's ONLY flaw is the dog aggression we worked so hard to breed into them, what are ya gonna do?

No Question here..I say LET'S DANCE!!!!!!!



As far as proper ways to do it depends on what your layout is. I use crates (they are a lifesaver) and doors and fences and whatever it takes. My very first recommendation is to work on each dog having its own area. Be it a crate or a bedroom or whatever. I also use my laundry room and I have extra high baby gates inside the house. It takes alot of dedication and work sometimes to keep dogs seperate. If it is not all three dogs and the third dog is ok with both it makes it easier. If they do not have help transfering the dogs from place to place a leash secured to dog and something immobile can work while another dog is brought through. They are basically going to have to figure out what works for them. Its no easy task for sure but worth it if you love bullies.

 

We also do the shuffle around here. There is a schedule we have to follow every day. Princess and Punkin are not friendly with each other so Princess and Pinky go out to potty in the mornings together while Bluebelle, Punkin and Fancy eat breakfast. Then Princess and Pinky come in for breakfast and the other three go out to potty. Everyone gets 2 hours of supervised playtime together in the mornings sometimes all together depending on their attitudes. Then Dinner goes the same as breakfast then after dinner another hour or two of playtime and then each one gets individual family time and run of the house before going into their crates before bed.
It works out great for us as long as we don't stray from the schedule. The dogs know the routine as well as I do. Of course anytime there's a new addition there is usually some rearranging done and that always causes a ruckus.

 

Wow. You guys are all great!

I could see it working better if I were home full time, but with a job the animals barely all get the attention they need as it is! I always feel guilty no matter where I am - with the cats or with the dogs - because the others are unhappy!


Jamiya

 

Haley has to be kept seperate from the Casey and Joey (chi and cocker) all the time, Annie (dachs) most of the time, and Goo whenever no one's able to supervise, and for a while (about 6 months after we got her) was kept completely seperate from all of them. In our house, we use baby gates to seperate, a tall walk through gate across the kitchen (the smaller dogs stay out there most of the daytime, when they're not out for walks or on the deck, though they do get free time in the whole house after pee breaks for a bit, and all go to bed with someone at night, plus they often get shuttled off for "me time" in the evenings), a shorter one (tall enough to keep haley out, short enough for Goo to jump to go in and out) across my bedroom doorway, tall one across the office doorway (where Haley's crate, food, etc are, ie: her room), one across the living room that can be toted around if needed somewhere else, and one across the other room in the hallway, that can also be moved around if needed. The only one that stays shut most of the time is the kitchen gate, the others are only shut if we need to keep someone in/out, otherwise they're left open for free range. There are doors in the kitchen, living room, and office, so the dogs can be taken out without having to shuffle anyone, which makes thing easier (Hale out the office door, the little dogs out the kitchen door, Goo out any door).

When we got Haley, she had to be kept completely seperate from everybody, so we set her up in the office, where there's a door out, and we'd rotate between her being loose in the rest of the house and the other dogs being loose. Someone is often in the office working or on the computer anyway, so she wasn't isolated back there, and whoever was out in the rest of the house was with the other dogs. Then, when it was her turn to be out, we'd crate and cover (to keep them from bothering each other)/room (Goo doesnt have a crate, just goes into my room) the other dogs and let her out. We moved the little dogs' crates to the kitchen not too long after Haley came here because Annie and Joey still weren't completely housebroken, and it's easier to clean up on linoleum than on carpet, not really related to Hale being here, but it did make things easier, as they didn't have to be crated on Haley's turns out. We initially had some troubles with them picking through the gates, they'd go up and eye each other up through the gates and goad each other into an argument, so we had to really come down on the gates being a *real* barrier, not to be messed with. We doubled up on gates (two gates, 6" or so apart, so they couldn't actually grab each other through them), and started squirting them with the water bottle for getting near the gates, so they learned that it wasn't ok to go up to it and start trouble. It helped too (strange as it will sound), that the second gates (which we usually only leaned against the counter and wall at the kitchen) would crash down if knocked into hard enough, not hurting anyone, but making a big enough noise to scare them and make them realize that the gates could "bite back". It took a month or so for them to learn to respect the gate as a boundary, and then we took away the second gate and went back to only using one, with the squirt bottle as a reminder if they started picking fights. They rarely fuss at each other through the gates anymore, even if they get right up to it. They also know not to pass through unless told, except for Goo, who sometimes gets confused since she's allowed to go through all the gates, but sometimes you don't really *need* her to follow you, and aren't expecting her :roll:

When we started introducing Goo and Haley, I had to have a way to let Goo still have access to her food and water (in my room) without Haley eating it, so up went the short gate, which Goo can jump over and Haley not. It also gives her a way to get away from Hale if she wants.

The living room gate is there in case we want to take one of the other dogs in to watch tv in there, so we can block Hale out, and it's also nice to keep the dogs out when delivery people come. Plus, when Hale starts to get too riled up and redirects onto Goo, it's easy to just send her into the living room, shut the gate, and let her zoom around in there for a few minutes before letting her back out. It's also nice for times when I just need to run downstairs or outside real quick and don't feel like shutting one up in a room, just send one into the living room and shut the gate.

For walks and stuff, I don't usually walk Haley or Goo with any of the other dogs anyway, simply because they're big and hard to handle by themselves if trouble presents itself, so it's really not a big deal to have to do seperate walks.

The dogs all know where they belong and where they don't (except for Goo sometimes), and there have been a few times that we've forgotten to shut a gate all the way (or it didn't shut), and we've turned to just see them standing there looking at each other like, "uhhhh.... the gate isn't shut, what're we supposed to do now?". One day I was in a big hurry to get ready to leave, called Haley to go outside.... through the kitchen (where the other dogs were)! I opened up the gate and said "come on, hurry up!" and she stopped and looked at me like, "haha, nice try, you know I'm not supposed to go in there when they're out!"... I felt like an idiot when I realized even the dogs knew better than I did

 

LOL! My husband would surely divorce me if our house was like that. It's bad enough the way it is now with the cats/dogs/mice.


Jamiya

 

When we first had Annie here I couldn't let Witt and her together because they would fight. I planted a crate in the living room and simply switched the dogs around. Her and Witt took turns being in the crate. Both of my boys are crate trained but haven't had to stay in a crate for a while and not while I was home. We actually put their crates out in the shop because they both are able to be out in the house while we are gone. So when Annie came it was torture for them to be crated while we were sitting right there. But they adjusted. However, I hated it...I worked hard to get my boys able to be out without using the crates and it sucked having one in my small family room. Now, Annie's crate is in Elises bedroom and she only uses it when we leave and sometimes at night. She doesn't need it at night if she is closed in the bedroom with Elise, but if left out she will insist Elise pay attention to her, she will wake her up at 3am to play or be petted..and 4 am and 5 am..she will not be denied lol, so Elise crates her. All the dogs now get along. I think they just had to establish rank and we had to figure out which things were a point of contention between Witt and Annie. Annie also needed to understand that I was da boss, now that she does ...things are much better. In all of this I learned that I do not want dogs that have to be separated. Unfortunately Annie figured that out too and she has become a perfect companion for the boys which has deleted one of my excuses to Elise for not keeping her.
She is a perceptive dog!