Times article

http://www.time.com/time/pacific/magazine/article/0,13673,503040628-656722,00.html


Jamiya

 

OK, I am a little confused as to why he has been treated like that. I'm not a vet and his theory makes sense to me. I don't understand why they are making fum of him unless they are worried that his theory is correct and the pet industry and vet industry loose profit. I think his idea is sound. Hmm... I'm sure Sarge would not mind trying this new diet.... Cool article. thanks for sharing. :y_the_best:

 

interesting, thats too bad he is not being taken seriously

Jakes been on raw almost 4 months and I have seen an improvement in his teeth and gums, and he is not on the raw bone regiment, but he does have a bone he likes to knaw on almost every night. he has always done that. So I think his raw diet without meaty bones has helped a lot.


And he is so active, my husband and I joke we want him the way he was, low energy. he has been almost every day retreivng his ball in our pool for like an hour and he just keeps going.


honeybear

 

where should i go to get raw meaty bones? just any butcher shop?

 

I have a deal with our local butcher shop. It costs them $ to discard the bones and meat that can't be sold, so I pick them up once a week (frozen) and take them home and put them in my freezer (laydown). Thats my dogs food. Occasionally, I buy cuts of meat for them. But usually he leaves just enough on for the dogs! He loves them. Everytime we go in there, they get a jerkey strip.

One thing though. I don't feed whole rib. They tend to break easily after freezing, and they will break like a pencil and have a sharp end on them. I give them 3" chunks, and they don't have that problem. I also thouroughly thaw.

 

I have trouble finding good bones for my dogs. Butchers here know they can make money from this so they bag them up and sell them as dog bones. They come in bags either of small bones or one big teeth breaking marrow bone. The bags of small bones are off cuts and sometimes the pieces are way too small and they could be swallowed whole. I once threw a whole bag of these bones out because they were useless.
Sounds like you have a good deal Samsintentions.
It does not surprise me that they have cancelled Tom Lonsdale's membership. It's 'wrong' to have an opinion that conflicts with the majority and messes with the status quo. (and $$$) Maybe I shouldn't put the cash in brackets because it seems that is the main factor and this is what dictates the responses. What else would be the reason? Why are they so scared to help pet owners?
Every vet I pass here have big logos up next to their signage of different brands of pet food. It seems the companies with the most money to splash in this area are science diet and eukanuba. These companies are always sponsoring anything to do with pets.
My vet is great, but my only concern is that he advocates a brand of dog food, and I would like to find a vet that doesn't have alterior motives in doing this and has independant advice.
But, money rules.
I say good on Tom Lonsdale and it is great to see him not get discouraged about spreading the word about what he believes in.

 

If you are feeding bones as a meal, it should be a MEATY bone - as in about 3/4 meat and only 1/4 bone. If you are feeding them for recreation then I guess it doesn't matter.

However, a lot of people like to feed big marrow bones for recreation. These can cause tooth breakage, so I don't feed them.

I feed mostly pork ribs, chicken leg quarters, whatever beef I can find on sale, rabbit, turkey wings, organ meats, and whole fish. And eggs. I buy from grocery stores, but it is cheaper if you can find a butcher who will help you out, especially if you can buy in bulk. Some places (like southern California) have coops that are awesome! I wish we had one here.

Ethnic markets, meat packers and meat processors, the butchers that process meat for hunters, farmers markets, local farms, restaurant suppliers, etc, are also places to find good deals on meat. There are also some online places but the shipping really gets you.


Jamiya

 

Thanks Jamiya...
I go to a market down the road from me where it's pretty cheap. I buy chicken carcasses, "pet" mince, cheap human grade mince, rabbit (occassionally because they are quite expensive), lambs necks or rib flaps, turkey legs- are these ok??? I have noticed they tend to break up into pointy peices, so I haven't bought them again. I don't really buy many organ meats- I do occassionally but I figure the 'pet mince' would be full of it. I have a few whole fish in the freezer too but am too scared to give them to my dogs. Aren't the little bones dangerous as they are for people? So far I just give them sardines as an accompaniment to the rest of the meal. Also egg yolks sometimes too. The butchers are pretty stingey at leaving meat on the bone, but my dogs will get a meat meal then bones to chew on. This gives them lots of chewing pleasure. Jamiya, do you feed beef bones? Sometimes I'll get 'soup' bones because they have a bit more meat on them. Maybe I'll have to make a deal with one of the butchers down there to save me some meaty bones. I tried out that message board you told me about a while ago but I found the outlay annoying and more time consuming. I don't have a great deal of patience at the computer!! No one else here that has dogs feeds raw so it's hard because I have no one to discuss it with. I have a friend who has a dog and has just moved around the corner from me so we are going to go to the market together, she wants me to show her what I buy.
If you go to tom lonsdales raw meaty bones site you'll see an story about a tv show that he was recently on- so hopefully people will start to catch on to this and then in turn butchers will be able to help people out. I think it would be an easy change for alot of people here as I was aware before that dogs could eat raw meat and bones- but didn't think that that should form the basis of their diet. Unfortunately I missed the show.
Here's the link: http://www.rawmeatybones.com/tdt.htm

 

Jules - turkey legs are fine, as are whole fish. It's kind of yucky to watch, but fine! Chicken and fish bones are very soft and flexible so they are easily crunched up.

COOKED bones are NOT fine, and I also avoid marrow bones. I do feed beef, but not the soup bones - there is not enough meat on them and I think they might cause tooth breakage as well. Usuallly I cannot find good beef bones (ribs are never meaty enough) so I feed whatever I can find cheap and just make sure they get some bone in their next meal.

The dogs have had trouble with pork bones sometimes, but mostly when they were just starting out. They would hork one up every now and then, but the ribs are working out better than the neckbones I used to feed.

Organ meats should be about 10% of your dog's diet - the more variety the better. Your mince should be good. I can find chicken livers and hearts (and gizzards) and beef heart, liver and kidney regularly. I would love to find some pancreas (not something I ever thought I would be saying...) and I really want to feed green tripe as well. I'm going to have to break down and order some online probably.

I found duck for a decent price once, and my grocery store had turkey organs once. Now whenever I go to a new grocery store I always check out the meat. That's something I never did before either!

I feed eggs whole, shell and all. I try to buy organic eggs, which are higher in omega-3. It's quite funny to watch the first time you hand a whole egg to a dog. Nala tossed it in the air several times and it never broke! She would just chase it down and toss it again, until finally it broke. Now she breaks it right away. Once she ate it on the deck and it soaked into the wood and she chewed a hole in the wood trying to get it all. *sigh*

The only thing I supplement with is wild fish oil, since I don't have access to enough whole fish of the high omega-3 variety - deep coldwater fish. I also give garlic tablets for a flea and tick and mosquito repellent.

Our diet looks basically like this: each dog eats about 16-20 ounces a day (approximately). They have a small breakfast and a larger dinner.

Breakfast is organ meats every other day - usually chicken one week and beef the next. (Rabbit or whatever else I find thrown in whenever.) On the other days, I feed some sort of canned fish (not ideal but I don't have access to much whole fish) - sardines, jack mackeral, salmon, or low sodium tuna - and one egg. Sometimes if I happen to have small meaty bones of some sort, I will feed one in the morning in place of the canned fish, but I try to always do organs every other day (don't overdo the liver - you can overdose on vit A). Some dogs can't eat too much organ meat all at once or they get the runs. My dogs don't seem to have a problem with it, but I never feed them a huge meal of it just to be safe.

For dinner, I generally feed chicken leg quarters a couple times a week ($0.37/pound at Wal-Mart Market!), pork ribs or some other pork cut a couple times a week, a whole fish once a week, and some "other" meat twice a week - rabbit, beef, turkey, game hen, duck - whatever I can find. I am looking into a source for buffalo - yum!

I hope this helps!


Jamiya

 

Thanks Jamiya. I might have to print out that info! I was thinking yesterday it's strange that the raw feeding thing hasn't really caught on here- considering alot of the info has come from two Australian vets. Or maybe it has and I just am speaking to the wrong people. Anyway... I feed Bender once a day, but latley he has been getting two meals a day because Leela does because she's young, and I feel bad about feeding her and not him! Sometimes I'll just throw her outside with food and take Bendy for a walk. So what's your reasoning for feeding twice a day? Do you do a fast day?
About the fish- I did once put a whole fish in Benders bowl and he picked it up so carefully in his mouth like it was really fragile... then he'd put it down on the ground and look up at me. I'd take it away then put it back and he'd do the same thing. He didn't know to eat it! So I took it off him and cut it up (tried to anyway- I don't eat fish and don't know how to cut it up and I made a terrible mess and my hands smelt like fish for the rest of the day!) but once I cut it up he ate it. (I removed the bones) It was weird. It reminded me of a story in that book "Bones would rain from the sky" where the dog picked up the turtle really gently and then handed it to his owner then after getting it back again, gently went and put it down on the ground again. Sometimes I'd love to know what goes on in their minds.
I know what you mean about checking out the meat in other stores. I'm doing it too now. And the most ironic thing is I'm vegetarian! And before anyone says why do I have dogs and feed them meat when I'm vegetarian??? Well, just because I'm vegie doesn't mean my partner or my dogs have to be veggie too. Just thought I'd add that in- I get that question alot.
Anyway... the market down the road has anything and everything. Pigs heads are about $4. They have lambs heads too but I haven't bought these things yet just out of my own disgust really. The thought of them sucking out the eyes to chew on (for example) makes me feel a bit quesy. It's no different to other meat I know but I'm sure other people would probably find that gross too! I've given them chicken heads before too. They have boiling hens down there, I got 2 for $5 the other week. Rabbits are $7.50 each so they only get them when I am feeling extra love for them lol. I'll find you some pancreas and send them to you, haha! They have really cheap chicken wings too but Leela has a habit of swallowing them whole. Remember when I said she swollowed a quail whole? She really is a guts. It's market day tomorrow so I'll get my little trlley and see what I can find this week!

 

Chicken wings are too small for most dogs, unless they are still part of the chicken! Actually, feeding whole carcasses are best, but I don't have access to those.

As for not knowing how to eat the fish - trust me, they figure it out! Just put it down and leave it for about 20 minutes. If he doesn't eat it, pick it up and no meal. Put it down again next time. It doesn't take many missed meals for them to eat it.

The only thing Nala will NOT eat so far is Grouper. She will eat whole tilapia, but she doesn't touch Grouper. So I don't feed it to her anymore!

I feed two meals because that's how often I was feeding kibble and I felt bad not feeding Nala in the morning since she expected it! I don't do a fast day, but some do. Some people swear by feeding extra big meals on some days, small meals on others, and an occasional fast. This is more similar to how they eat in the wild - gorging on a kill and then eating the "leftovers" the nexy day and fasting until the next kill. I generally feed about the same amount every day, but if there is something that is big that is hard to cut I just feed less the next day.

I wish we had a market that sold whole pig's heads and rabbits!


Jamiya