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Update ** She Jumped Out Of My BF's Car!!! (page 3)

Discussion in 'Dogs - Pit bull breeds specific' started by Polar's Mom, Sep 20, 2004.

  1. Polar's Mom

    Polar's Mom New Member

    Hi everyone! I have a few questions but thought I should say hi and introduce us first...

    This is Polar, my 8 month old female pitbull:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  2. nern

    nern New Member

    Welcome to Auspet. Polar is beautiful. :D
     
  3. GinaH

    GinaH New Member

  4. True_Pits

    True_Pits New Member

    Wow. She is lovely all white.
     
  5. Polar's Mom

    Polar's Mom New Member

    Wow GinaH, your pups are so stocky! I think Polar must've been the runt.. she's very slender for a pit.
     
  6. diesel

    diesel New Member

    Beautiul Dog I love all white pits
     
  7. spencerpits

    spencerpits New Member

    It really depends on her parents/grandparents/etc. As you look in books and online, you'll notice that there are (in my opionion) about 3 different kinds/sizes of APBTs. There's the smaller, more slender ones (I refer to them as the ADBA type), the slightly bigger, more stocky ones (UKC type), and the massive, overly-built, usually very short and bowlegged ones (I just call these ridiculous). Now that is just my view-point on it. Anyway - Polar is a very beautiful dog. My Maggie recently (well, in January) had a litter with 2 white/black nosed males. I'm going to be sure to get pics of all the pups when they are 1 year old, but I'm pretty sure I just saw a preview of what to expect with those two. :D
     
  8. True_Pits

    True_Pits New Member

    Pit Bulls are supposed to be sleek, slender and steamline.

    But if you look at the UKC Pits they are more stocky, closer to ASTs, a lot have AST blood.

    Those massive ridiculous ones aren't pure Pit Bulls, they're mixed with all sort of things. The UKC ones are usually just bred to be bigger and they have a standard similar AKC AST standard.

    Something funny my friend got the runt of the litter and he grew up to be big, big head, chest, he is only 58lbs but he looks so huge because of the way he's build, looks like he could weight a lot more. He's bigger then his brother.
     
  9. GinaH

    GinaH New Member

    I really don't think any of my dogs are stocky or massive or whatever. They are pretty average none of them weigh over 55 lbs. Now Pinky is very short and sort of thick but Punkin and Bluebelle are not. Anyways I love them just the way they are and I think they are BEAUTIFUL!!
     
  10. Polar's Mom

    Polar's Mom New Member

    Yes they are beautiful :)

    The friend I got her from has a 5 month old male pit named Goliath he got from a breeder called Mammoth Pitbulls... he is short but insanely humongous... I don't have any recent pics but he's maybe 2 months old in this one:
    [​IMG]
     
  11. Angie

    Angie New Member

    I like Bluebelle's structure. It reminds me of how Meadow is built. Out of all the pics I have seen on here, Bluebelle has always been my favorite.
     
  12. GinaH

    GinaH New Member

    Goliath Is gorgeous! I love his color and his eyes are beautiful!
     
  13. True_Pits

    True_Pits New Member

    I don't think they are massive or monster, but they definatly have bone structure. I think I like Bluebelle best. Looking at them from the pics I think they look more like UKC pits with more bones and somewhat stocky, but sometimes pics can be decieving I suppose.

    Mammoth Pit Bulls has some huge ones, they breed for personal protection and things like that. Those would be some huge, hard hitting man stoppers.
     
  14. BronxthePit

    BronxthePit New Member

    I def. disagree with that one. My baby is %100 purebred, he is stocky and strong(looks similar to Goliath just all black). at just three months he almost weighs 30 pounds and beats my 1.6 year old muscular boxer mix at a game of tug of war. His parents are purebred pits. his mother is of medium build like my boxer and his dad is 100+ pounds of muscle + big head.His parent's parents are the same. Dogs are like humans , it all depends on their genes and how you raise/exercise them., you can't generalize and say that all ABPT's are supposed to be slender, thats just the way you raise yours.True pits that are raised like they should and are fed/exercised like they should , are muscular and stocky, not sleek and slender like a boxer/dobie. with the way my baby likes to eat and the way he loves to run and excercise hes going to be just as big and muscular like his dad.

    Dogs like Warlock Dobies ARE Altered and not purebred. But a big Muscular pit doesn't mean its not purebred, it means it has a good life.
     
  15. True_Pits

    True_Pits New Member

    Well Bronx you can believe as you wish, but I don't really care to debate it as I know the truth about them. Its no secret that many APBTs (even with papers) are mixed and some lines have foundations of a crossbred dog.

    I never said a stocky dog isn't pure. Did I? A stocky dog, like those in the UKC or even the AST is pure, they are just physically altered. Which isn't hard to do. Look at the current bull terrier from the old bull terrier and they look different, they are the same pure breed (just not in the true form like a stocky pit) but have been altered to fit a standard through selective breeding.

    Yes it depends on their genes, and with BREED TYPE and PUREBREEDING you get consistentcy. When you change them and selectily breed for something else you can get something else and the genes will fall that way and of course they are still pure. But when you mix something in to add size, color, or to make them smaller, have shorter muzzles, what ever the goal was when people crossbred you get those genes too and they aren't a purebred. So it all depends on the dog. With your raise/exercise statement that shows a little ignorance to me, no offense, but it has nothing to do with the way they are raised. It has to do with GENES and you were on the right track then, if I breed my female to a bullmastiff and add those genes I'll keep getting those traits. If I breed her to a purebred dog that has a different feature and breed a daughter of that back to the sire, I'll get the higher chances of the same feature. It has nothing to do with raising/excersise and you can't alter a dog this way. This makes no sense what so ever. Regardless of how I raise my dogs (which they are excersized everyday), no matter how much I feed and excersize them they will never be 100 they'd die before they got that fat from being obese, they'd never be any stockier, never have flews, sagging dewlaps, mastiff size feet, bigger heads. They'd just be very obese little dogs. I NEVER said all APBTs are supposed to be slender. In general as a breed they were bred to be a slender type breed. Then things changed which has NOTHING to do with massive mixed dogs.

    true pits that are fed/exercised correctly as you say are not going to get anymore stockier, although they should put on muscle and lose their gut it won't make them get 100lbs or become more stokier. They will get very sleek, streamline, slender, ect. Its not going to alter them. GENES dictate this. If you buy a dog thats bred to be a "true pit" and to look like a true pit thats what its going to look like. Very streamline and slender. No matter what you do to it. If you buy one from purebred stocky parents or from a line like RE bloodline or Gaff bloodline no matter what you do you can't make them sleek or look like a true pit. They're going to look like the altered UKC version, which I never said wasn't pure. If you buy a Chevy Red Dog bred mixed pit bull no matter what you do, you can't make it look like a true pit, you can't make it stay 40lbs, you can't change it. If you never excersised it, its still going to grow up and be the same dog. The dog will be what its bred to be. I raise my dogs correctly and they look like APBTs have always looked, if I fed them any other way or excesized them differently they wouldn't look anything like a stocky dog or grow to be 100lbs. If I bought dogs off Gaff's Eddie dog they would never look like my current dogs, they would grow to be the UKC APBTs/ASTs they are. Nothing I could do to change either one, raising or excesise wise.

    I fail to really see the connection? So why are Warlock Dobies a mix, but a large Pit Bull wouldn't be? regardless of its care or home? Man that has nothing to do with anything. A big pit has a good life? How do you know a Warlock Dobie won't have a good life? Couldn't a mixed breed go have a good life? Yes there are even purebred large dobies, rotts, and GSD that bybs make huge to sell for a lot, too look intimidating, ect. And yeah they're are mixes too. Not really debating that, just wondering why having a large, muscled, Warlock Dobie wouldn't that mean it has a good life and some one has taken care of it? Pure or not.

    Some of the things APBTs have been mixed with are Bull Mastiff, Great Dane, American Bulldog, Dogue De Bordeaux, Rottweilers, Bull Terriers, Labs, Presa, Nepolean Mastiff, Cane Corso. They're are even purebred Cane Corso and American Bulldogs registered as Pit Bulls, there are also half bred AB/APBT mixes reg as purebred American Bulldogs.

    There are dogs registered as APBTs who are not purebred. If you think all those massive, ridiculous dogs are purebred then thats your choice to believe. I've seen the paper hanging and false breeding before. I've even seen the PUREBRED specimens of OTHER BREEDS that are registered as APBTs, let alone the dogs out of a AB who has a fake sire. I've also seen purebreds with the wrong set of parents, wrong pedigree. The dog may be pure, may have actual ADBA parents but instead it has the wrong parents. I've seen dogs coming out of pounds not knowing if they are pure or what, single registered out of such n such sire and dam. Maybe you don't realize how often this happens. Its not just the big dogs, but there more easier to pick out. There are a lot mixes and so many dogs with false pedigrees.

    I'd also like to know how you know your dog is 100% pure? None of us in this world can possibly know that without knowing all the dogs in the pedigree, being present at every breeding or having all the dogs in the pedigree DNA'd. Which is impossible, there is always a chance a dog isn't pure. Yeah, my own dogs may not be pure, there is no absolute guarantee that a dog is 100% pure. One that looks like an APBT more then likely it may be a pure APBT, but there is always a chance its not.
     
  16. BronxthePit

    BronxthePit New Member

    if you don't care to debate it then why the 3 page response?

    bottom line : I disagree (as stated) with your statement as to BIG pitbull's not being 'PURE'. Take it or leave it. You can't make statements like that but then turn around and state that no one can be sure what is 'pure' or not, because as you say "we'd have to be present at every breeding...blah'ze blah'ze for the next two pages". Following your logic than few pits are truly 'PURE' nowadays. I base my opinions/comments based on MY results,nor am I claiming my comments to be the defenitive source concerning Pit Bull Terriers, or I an encyclopedia of PIT BULL TERRIER Ancestory & Knowledge. :|

    Again...TAKE IT...or LEAVE IT. Don't waste your time by writing a disortation about it. You have your opinions I have mine, whether you view it as 'ignorance' or not is completely & irrevocably irrelivant :? sorry, your results are obviously different my friend.

    Difference , its what makes the world go round.
     
  17. True_Pits

    True_Pits New Member

    I only meant I didn't want to have some on going debate. I wrote what I felt to be a good response to your quotes, some not even concerning the whole pure/not pure big dog issue. Yes I do think for some one to say if you feed a pit like you should, excersise it and raise it right then it will be big and 100lbs, ect, is ignorant. Makes no sense what so ever. Doesn't really have to do with it being pure or not, as dogs can be bred to look total different and both be pure. So I was never debating that issue when I talked about raising and feeding.

    A lot of Pit Bulls are not pure nowadays and to our knowledge many still are. It is naive to think that just because it looks like a Pit Bull or has papers its pure. I can pick out two of mine who I know aren't 100% pure. There are too many people who aren't honest on paperwork, whether its pure or not.

    I'm not trying to debate, I was just trying to explain.

    I never said BIG Pit Bulls were not pure, i was speaking of the same ridiculous "pit bulls" the other poster was meaning the ones who are not pure. A dog that is mixed no matter what the size isn't pure. And genes are a very interesting thing, as the "runt" my friend got who out grew his brother is actually a throwback to his mastiff heritage that hasn't been in play for at least 5-6 generations back. His brother looks like a APBT although he's big and this "runt" carries some of the traits of the ancestors while being only 58lbs but I think one reason he looks like he could weight more is because of the mastiff traits, makes him look bigger.

    Your taking this personally because you have a dog that came out of bigger parents 9when I never said it wasnt pure), instead of looking at the whole picture. You would have to do as I stated to know if any Pit Bull is truly purebred. Following that logic really doesnt mean that very few are pure bred, it only means that their is a chance that any dog isn't pure bred.

    Look at GR CH Buck who the heck knows his real pedigree? I'm sure Pat Patrick does. However the dog has pedigrees from different parents, then he has pedigrees with the same parents but those parents have different sires/dams themselves, making him have diff g-parents.

    Then you have the locals here. This is just an example of what people do.

    Person had a female they wanted to breed, they never for her papers. So they find a big, huge, male that was part mastiff and breed them together. Since they don't have papers they get a fake pedigree. Out of Xsire and Xdam who are neither of the two parents. Then they get a female that is part American Bulldog and 3 generation single registered her with some made up pedigree. Now they breed a male from their previous breeding to this female. So what do the buyer get? A dog that is part APBT, part Mastiff, and part American Bulldog, registered as a purebred APBT. The male they used turned out to look like the mastiffs and also gained the huge size, but a lot look like purebreds just with bad conformation, especially bad back ends. Anyway thats what they get. What do they think their getting? A purebred APBTs with CH pedigree. This happens to people everyday and come hell or high water they will always say. My dog is an APBT, I have papers, pedigree, the parents are pure, ect. I never said a big pit bull isn't a pure one, I never said your dog wasn't pure. Never said a stocky dog with bone structure and head piece wasnt pure. So I'm not sure how those words got put in my mouth. I never even was debating that in my reply. Gosh I never even said that you thinking your dog is pure is ignorance, because I never said your dog wasn't pure or a big pit isn't pure. Like I already mentioned! I said your statement about the raising sounded ignorant in a way. Feeding or excersising a dog to make it grow really big. That doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense no matter how you think about it.
    Your statements just brought on a whole nother issue. Don't you think people who have true pits, bred to meet the standard and be sleek and slender could find your statement offensive about feed/care because their dogs don't look like yours? I'm not offended, but it could have offended some.
    Regardless of purity, one thing about breeds are BREED TYPE. Breeders should be breeding to preserve the breed, better the breed and keep breed type. Thats what reputable and responsible breeders do. They shouldn't be breeding for size, for fads, colors, big heads, narrow heads, short dogs, long dogs, blue eyed dogs or whatever crazy things these breeders do to ruin and change breeds with total disregard to breed type and standards.
    That goes for any breed, not just the Lab, Dobie, Rott, GSD it includes APBTs.

    You may not care to read or dislike the fact that I write a lot, but there are others on this forum, others still who may benefit from this information or just find it interesting. You'd be surprised at how many people don't know that people fake pedigrees and registration all the time. All the way up to mxing in other breeds or just ordering an extra set of papers for a litter of 8 when there were only 7 so they can sell that 8th set of papers so some one to fake a pedigree. Some people don't know this exist and it really blows them away to hear it.

    Maybe you should have took the time to read my first post, however long, you would have known what I actually said. That I wasn't debating or saying big pits are not pure. I do know a lot of big pits are not pure and mixed with all sorts of things, just as well as an average sized pit bull who's mixed. People who admit not knowing the sire to their female they left out in heat, but if the pups come out pure register and sell them as pure. Its just a vicious cycle. Big, medium, small there are a lot of unpure ones. Does that sound like I'm saying a big pit is a mutt? No it dont.

    Your results, my results, thats where I'm stuck. What do you mean by this? I'm not trying to put together results of what these dogs produce like. I'm not sure what breeding program you have or dogs you've been messing with,been around, or whatever, I'm not saying they aren't pure because they're big. I feel like I'm repeating myself but you didn't catch it last time to I have to make sure you do this time. I guess you missed the part where I talked about selectively breeding for size and altering the breed too, which would mean the dog is PURE and if thats what you do and you get those results whats to debate. I was never trying to. With different breedings you get different results. I never said you wouldnt, infact I said you did. Your results for a dogs size would depend on the parents and its genes.
     
  18. BronxthePit

    BronxthePit New Member

    "Following that logic really doesn’t mean that very few are pure bred, it only means that their is a chance that any dog isn't pure bred. "

    You’re a lawyer aren't you? :) I say tomato you just reword it and say tomatoe.

    "Your statements just brought on a whole nother issue. Don't you think people who have true pits, bred to meet the standard and be sleek and slender could find your statement offensive about feed/care because their dogs don't look like yours? I'm not offended, but it could have offended some. "
    Frankly who cares? :) that’s why its called an open forum. If you ran these boards no one would be allowed to express their opinions. It's called Free Speech. You’re running around quoting DOG SHOW standards. These dogs that people post about/ask advice for (from the post I’ve read) are their pets/companions/children. Not their Show Dogs. And to say that their dog does not meet the ‘standard’ is, as you say 'ignorance'. There is a big Difference as to what’s considered "STANDARD" for show dogs and your typical house dog/guardian. And that’s where the debate took off on the wrong foot.
    In the dog show world, there are terms like Pedigree and STANDARD
    In the PET world the terms change into "Healthy" and "typical".

    As far as your rant about exercise and diet. If I were to take my pup's brother (both from the same stocky muscular pit bull), With the SAME Genes. and Exercised and Fed ONE to take advantage of those Genes. and the other Just normal dog food and minimal exercise, THEY ARE NOT GOING TO LOOK THE SAME AT THE END OF 6 MONTHS! I never said that DIET and Exercise is the only thing needed. "Dogs are like humans , it all depends on their genes and how you raise/exercise them."
    See that one word... "AND" it doesn't say "OR" , or , "ALTERNATIVLY" , its says "AND" meaning In addition to. I'm not taking anything personal i just hate know-it-all's. Stop telling these poor people that skinny slender pits are the "standard' (hence theirs are not; your quote : "Don't you think people who have 'true pits', bred to meet the standard and be sleek and slender ") when in reality unless they're shopping/training for a show dog IT IS NOT THE STANDARD.

    Most people ( and i use that term lightly) who are looking for a pitbull look for clean blooded , healthy stocky pups born of TWO PITBULLS, who are not related. THAT is considered PURE in the real world (not the show dog world). Just do a search and you will see at least %80 of the pits/pups for sale meet the 'typical’ look...a stocky full bodied pitbull.

    Anything further than this post is just a waste of not only my time but anyone following this post because now all you are doing is twisting words in order to spurn a debate (as Proven by the above re-statements) ,in order to sound educated/picking a fight.

    You went from saying that massively huge pits are not pure, to that just because they are big doesn't mean they aren’t pure, to saying no one can say what is pure, to dropping that and jumping on a different topic. Make up your mind. ALL because I just spoke my Opinion concerning your original "pure' statement. Again THANK GOD you do not run these forums.

    YOU Sir/Madam , need to get a life.
     
  19. Angie

    Angie New Member

    Yes, definitely don't take it personal because he... she? does ..or writes this way all the time. I thought it was only me. :|
     
  20. someday

    someday New Member

    There seems to be some miscommunication here. I get what True Pits is saying(well I think I do anyways, you can of course correct me if I have it wrong). The massive pits are not breed standard. They may come from two registered pits, but somewhere down the line, there's something else in there(mastiff, etc.) It's very possible, as said, papers can be false, and it doesn't take much to introduce size into a line. Which this is important to breeders, because the point is to PRESERVE THE BREED. So of course he's talking about show ring breed standards. Why would you care if your dog met breed standards if it was just a pet. Other than wanting a representative of the breed in look and temperment because that is why you bought that breed, correct? I have no intentions of showing my dog, nor is she registered. I cannot for sure verify she is all pit, though she looks it. Do I care? no. She's a pet, and I have no intentions of breeding her. But I do want a dog that has the pit bull temperment and look, which is not massive. So if you like big massive dogs, great. I just don't think they should be bred as pure pit bulls since this is the new fad, a bigger and bigger dog and it takes away from the original look of the breed. Now stocky, yes, they can be stocky, but a pit bull that's say 100 lbs and 3-4 inches shy they height of a mastiff, no..go buy a presa. (sorry that sounded rude..it wasn't meant to be..i just think breeding bigger pits for the sake of size is silly and introduces more problems for the breed)
     

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