what dog is best cattle working dog?

I am curious because the big annual bull and gelding show is this week-end and they also auction working dogs. I read in the paper yesterday that this year that they were all border collies except one, a kelpie and many come from out of state, they go approx $3500, one last yeat went for $10,000 :shock: it said they take the place of many workers and they have been trained for approx to years before they are ready for sale. The dogs all do a demonstration on their skills. that would have been cool to see, it was last night.

I am just surpised there were not any aussie cattle dogs or heelers

 

Let's see one of those Border Collies get kicked in the head like Sam's dog Smokey and survive. I read somewhere that ACD's have thick skulls that give them some protestion from that inevitable kick they will receive. I think Border Collies should stick to sheep and leave cattle to the heelers and cattle dogs.

 

dukesdad are you seriousor pulling my leg about the thick skull. See thats what I always thought border colles for sheep and heelers for cattle

honeybear

 

I've always been partial to the Corgi's, myself. The cows kick right over their heads! And watching a Corgi swinging away on a cow's tail cracks me up.

Bouvier's are also awsome cattle dogs. Don't see nearly enough of them, and they don't get the credit the richly deserve.

 

Borders are more for the sheep and goats... Honestly they just aren't tuff enough or agressive enough to manage cattle.

I belive the ACD's and Kelpi's are the best for cattle work. Like the saying goes (and smokey is living proof of it!!) they take a lickin and keep on ticking...

Smokey crushed his skull, and kept on working. Gris had his teeth knocked out and fractured his jaw, and finished working that same day...

ACD's are tenatious and extremely driven to do the work.... Borders IMO just aren't tough enough nor have the drive to do the work. Though they are intelligent and make good cattle dogs, it takes twice as long to teach one to do the work, than it does an ACD. Generally I start my pups at 6 weeks on the cattle. By 6-8 months of age, they know their stuff. I've worked Borders. They take much much longer to train...

 

I have heard that about the acds having thick skulls and smokeys stories add to that, he definitely has a a good head!
but that seems like crazy prices to pay for those dogs! How long would it take to train one?

 

They truely do.

I got Smokey when he was 2 so i don't know his FULL background. he was partially trained when I got him, but not much... It took him about a week to catch on to the rest...

As far as obediance goes. he got his "degree" in doggyobediance class in a week and 2 days... took the rest of the class the full 3 weeks..Wee still attended the full course, but he had EVERYTHING down pat in the first week.

I start all my working puppies on teh cattle (older more experianced cows I call my "trainers") at 5 1/2 -6 weeks. Daddy basically teaches them what to do with the instincts... And HOW to do it. Then when they start following his lead. i take them one at a time, and let themn work along side him learning the commands. Takes them from start to a finished working dog, about 4-6 months to be fully herd trained.
However, there are the exceptions and the hard heads...

Gee learned to train and was working solo at age 3 months... of course at that age, theya ren't really working, just "excersizing" on one to three cows... and for short periods of time.... they need time to grow and play just like other pupies.

Now when they hit a year and a half, theyare EXPECTED to know and be able to put in at least a 8 hr work day solo...

I never leave them with more cattle then they can handle. Usually 25-30 cattle is a one dogs limit... anything over that we use multiple dogs.


The best combination i've used was an ACD for a heeler and a Border for a header...

Basically you use the ACD to nip the heels to get the cattle moving, and flush out strays, and the Border to nip at nose and ears to turn them...

The ACD will work much harder, and has a GREATER stamina than the Border. Though I have met Borders before that could give any ACD a run for their money....


IMO Corgis are great little dogs. However.... their stamina just won't hold up on long hauls, and often times they don't have the "drive" to do the work.

I've seen some corgi's that were good dogs, but tired out WAY too quickly and the cattle just wouldn't take them seriously...

 

"Now when they hit a year and a half, theyare EXPECTED to know and be able to put in at least a 8 hr work day solo... "

Lil, I think that is why the dogs at the auction go for so much as Sam stated above. these dogs have been trained for 2 years, So when the people get them the dogs are expected to immediately go out and do their job

honeybear

 

Exactly.

I've sold horses that would make people faint. I sold a GELDING, yes a GELDING... for $34,000.00.

Like the Boerboels, they can run froma ny where from $1000.00 to $5000.00, why? Because they are EXPECTED to protect their families...there are few, and they serve a purpose.

I've known ACD's alone to run up to $15-20000.00

When your working dogs. Its a WHOLE diffrent world. Theres a trust there like no other. Same with horses.

I trust Sassy with my life. I've ridden her blindfolded and blindfolded her and rode her. Never has there been a nervous or doubtful moment.

With dogs. One wrong move can get them and you killed. they have to Know what to do, know when to stop and obey. As well as take risks.

Look at the K-9 Units in the police force. If the officers doubted their dogs, it could get them killed.

Money isn't a factor when your getting the best of the best. yes to some, its an outrageous amount. But isn't a porche or a Corvette???

When its your life, and your income that the dogs are serving, you need the best. There's no room for failure. Period.

 

AND as far as the price the dogs doo take on activities it would take SEVERAL horses and people to do when moving cattle...WELL worth the investment for most ranchers...

I'm wondering how many of the big drovers you see in an auction or feed lot setting... Not sure but if I had to get some bulls in order in such a confined area I'd much rather have a Riot dog on my side than a Smokey...not that Smokey couldn't work or do what I asked...it'd be less easy for a bull to get through A Boerboel or Rott in that case... In South Africa they use the Boerboels to handle the ferrel cattle often times...for vetting etc... They'll catch or hold mamma's at bay for vetting the calves... etc... Wonder why more people don't use dogs like this in conjuction with the ACD or Collies??? I've been working cattle with Borders and honestly thought the best combo in a sitaution with cows and calves and bulls would be the herding dog and protecting/motivating drover to help out where needed... Are cattle much easier to deal with as a whole here in the US as to not need the big drovers some other places use them? Hmmmm...

 

I agree, in a stituation where I was dealing with a feral bull or an agressive cow, I'd much rather have a mastiff, or larger breed dog. Not only can they handle, but their natural "bulk" and strenght would withstand more than an ACD or Border could handle...

But havning NEVER worked one, I'll stick with what I know. Though i will soon have one and then can speak from experiance. I have a friend that uses a Neo, though the dog is slow, and not as adjile, he gets the job done. He'd much rather spend his day chewing on a bone, and on the couch and you can tell that.
But she never has to doubt that he won't hold them at bay when needed.

He works good when penning, anyother time, she sends out the ACD's and kelpies.


Sara and I will quickly be learning just what limits the BB can excel too.

Don't think I've officially said it yet, but we'll let this be it. I will be adding the Boerboel to my family. Hoepfully with the right coaching, and training help from Sara and a few others, they'll fit right in to my program and I can begin work on helping the breed.

 

Anecdote: A girl in Colorado has American Bulldogs known for their catch dog skills and Boerboels. She was out on a walk with one of her AB's and her Boerboel and the AB decided to head off to the cows. The calves were big but not separated and so in the pen the dog headed to were Cows and calves... The AB caused quite a ruckus and sooner or later ended up on the nose of a little steer... MOM was flipping as were all the rest of the cows (they have a tough time figuring out who's baby is who's under stress)... Of course the girl paid no attention to them and headed off to get her dog off of this little steer. She finally pry's the dog off and she comes to so to speak... Her Boerboel Misha was doing JUST as she should have been doing... Running circles around the girl and her AB barking like a mad dog keeping those MAD cows at bay... This dog lived next to cattle but never interacted with them... Instinctually she did not take a peice out of any of them but kept her boss/owner safe while she worked to get the Catch dog off of the poor steer's nose...

No one was seriously injured in the altercation.

Sam I am sooooo looking forward to seeing what you do with these dogs!!! It'll be hard not to come along with the pup when you take him home!...LOL

 

I'm excited as well.

I'm sure everything will work out as planned.
Have you heard any news on Kalamity and how's Askari doing??

 

Kal is due sometime around the 17th... and doing fine... I'm not sure I thought she was going to have them via C-section so that's probably planned around that time...

Askari is fine...she's starting to have to really give Precious what for to get her to leave her alone but that's what puppies are for right? LOL... Riot seems to have injured his knee AGAIN...JUST as I am about to start adding on the weight again...ugh... He's sooooo careless it's annoying... He and the rest of them crowd into the tiny space at teh back of the dog house...and I think that's the culprit of this latest issue. We had walked a couple days before it showed up...but not much... Same deal as the last time... I think it's a muscle issue rather than a tendon issue because he's not in much pain...tendon or ligament tears are VERY painfull... He's a trooper though... They're all coming in at night because this move is getting to them as well... Tiffs are breaking out between them more often... No sign of heat (crossing fingers) so we should be able to get Askari's Penn-hip taken care of with part of my tax return...depending on what I get...

We're all doing great... Askari is still the most vocal protector of ANYTHING that we have...Riot the biggest...LOL...

No more escapes from Askari (thank God) too much of that and I can see blown shoulders in no time... She's doing GRAND... grown up into a great female... I'm going to take her out to petco more often once we move...it'll be easier to clean her up for an outing... Three dogs in a run gets MESSY...LOL... You may have to take an extended trip here in a couple months to visit Askari and Riot too... We'll have an extra room and I'll keep on Andy with the Tattoo thought...I forgot about it till a couple days ago (i'm a ditz I tell ya)...

Anyway We're all good...can't wait to get this breeding done and see the results...I have pretty high hopes...

 

LOL.. same here.

Granvel is excited about going. We'll probably come up there first, and visit the dogs, and then come back down and get the puppy on the way back from her.

I think getting the pup first and then traveling up there and then back down will be a bit too much stress.

SO....

 

Good thought just let me know...of course! LOL...I'm excited...LOL

 

Ok... whats with the nasty roaches running around on the banner at the bottom of this screen?? EWWWW!!!!


LOL.. yeah, I told Granvel, i'm going with or without him!!! We won't be bringing Smokey though. I've made up my mind. With his recent "problems" I don't want to risk something happening...

 

oh wow, another new pup Sam, so when do you get your ACD you posted about? yo will have your hands full wit 2 puppies.

Sarah question aou the tendon thing. Lately Wylie has been limping and playing and running a lot, it seem to be in her shoulder. The vet said it could be bursities, is this teh same thing as a tendon?

I was wonderng if she is reinjuring herself like a tendon instead of a bursitis

 

I'm not getting Meadow at this time. Perhaps I'll get another ACD pup at a later date. i want to focus my time and monies into the Boerboels. Smokey is having a hard time right now, and I've got my hands full with ACD's. their still my love, but I won't be breeding or showing them for a while....

 

Bursitis is like overuse... It's basically just inflamation... Did your vet offer any suggestions? I've not heard of many dogs that have this problem because...well they're MADE to do the movement they do... It could very well be a tendon injury but the two are not the same. Bursitis can be caused by scar tissue I would suppose from a past injury... Hmmmm... Dang that might be what Riot's problem is...

At least I know it's in his knee...it pops...and he does seem to mind when I move and palpate it...and when I do it with his hip he could care less...LOL... Poor guy... Soooo careless and I guess he'll be skinny forever to keep his knee in check... I HATE that...

I'd see if the Vet wants to do anything like x-ray or anything like that and have it done just in case. How big is your dog? Large dogs often have shoulder injuries... Limit play while it flares up and give anti-infmatory like baby asperin or doggy stuff from the store or vet. Keeping the inflamation down will help get over it faster and back on track.