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local gets caught(Boudreaux Bloodline)

Discussion in 'Dogs - Pit bull breeds specific' started by jay, Mar 14, 2005.



  1. DeLaUK

    DeLaUK New Member

    Goob, I agree totally with the Animal Control issue, I know of a couple that do go on vendettas against certain people so Ive wondered that a few times with this. Ive had problems with them myself, I had 4 dogs and the city said I was only allowed 2 going by the space I had in the yard and the fact that it was a rental, the landlord didnt have a problem though. The dogs were 'inspected' for abuse, I was questioned about the syringes being in my house and my 'ability' to obtain blood from my Rott as she was diabetic (Im a vet tech-over 15 years....I know how to get a blood sample) They would come around periodically, hang around outside my back fence and blow a dog whistle to see how many dogs came running out of the house and I had a few times were it got so bad that I had to 'relocate' a couple of my dogs temporaarily to avoid them being confiscated and euthanized, my Rott and Pit mix were targeted.

    I understand the laws if they have known fighters and why they are euthanized but if these particular dogs were not fighters!! Ive seen more dogs taken by private rescues that have mostly been found 'accomodation'...it can be done, it would have been something if the'd at least tried to contact the owners of the dogs that a few people in here have said were just boarding....but I also heard that PETA is involved, so the dogs didnt stand a chance.
     
  2. Angie

    Angie New Member

    Thanks. Baby (one of my brother's dogs) is 5 years old.
    She is so sweet and it would be terrible for someone to come in my or my brother's home and take all our dogs away and kill them without even knowing them.
    Like if they took away Eve (another one of my brother's) it breaks my heart that they would probably put her to sleep so quickly. Because she is blind, she barks a lot and tries to be protective because she doesn't know whats going on. Eve is such a baby, its just weird to me how a lot of people are scared of her. (I dont think my brother even has Eve registered but we think she has Boudreaux in her. )

    It was wrong for them to kill all these dogs -ASSUMING- that they were fighting dogs. Im sure that not every dog Floyd has sold was used for fighting and a lot of them could have been great pets.
    Even if the older dogs were subjected to fighting, they could have kept the puppies alive!
    :(
     
  3. MyPetTherapyDog

    MyPetTherapyDog New Member

    I also heard that PETA is involved, so the dogs didnt stand a chance.

    Talk about hypocrites. They are so anti- pit bull.
     
  4. MyPetTherapyDog

    MyPetTherapyDog New Member

    Angie, Your dogs are georgous!
     
  5. Angie

    Angie New Member

    Thanks! Those are my brother's dogs!
    I only have one (Shianne). She is in the picture to the left of my posts.
    :D
     
  6. Sara

    Sara New Member

    For the record I myself could never stomach watching a dog fight and nearly lost my lunch when I was tricked into watching one on one of those lovely Animal Planet AC shows...it was shown for the purpose of defending the stance of that city's law against APBTs...

    ANYWAY... DeLaUK you assume a lot about me based on some posts on a message board and not THAT Much time asking for any type of clarification...

    POINT is that I can respect that people fight the APBT in order to keep the breed true to what it was bred for. I do not respect people who do it for fame and fortune and to make up for something they are lacking...

    As for horse racing...If you missed it I'll spell it out for you... I DO NOT aggree with the things they put those horses through either...

    FOR THE RECORD I've fostered a pit or two in the past if you question my willingness or ability to "save" the breed from those who mistreat them... I'd be happy if they put away all the thugs that were out there "matching" dogs in order to prove that they are tough...killing dogs and baiting them... Show me where I can help out and I'll be all about it...

    For the media to consider this Boudreaux character some kind of a fighting guru who still participates in the "sport"...wasting their effort on him and those LIKE him...is assenine and I'd much rather see them going after the people breeding APBT's to be 100lb mutts that will likely fight anything that breathes... Wonder how many of Boudreaux's pits were actually bigger than 60lbs and if they were...how many of those dogs were respected catch dogs that did away with crop and people killing ferral vermin? POINT is that the man and his son have not yet even been convicted and the dogs were destroyed anyway... THIS is a problem.

    As far as my being offended at your "sadistic" comments... I'm not because I too agree with True Pits that the people you describe in your post ARE sadistic good for nothings...

    I love my breed and I'd rather it not disappear as it was meant to be because people can't stomach or appreciate what it is they were bred for... I don't want to see it become a fat version of itself prancing around a show ring with no personality or drive to speak of and I'd really hate to see it become less stable because of it. I'd hate to see the breed, because of lack of respect for it's origins be changed into a breed less likely to aim aggression at other animals or dogs and instead aim that power (what's left of it) and aggression at people.

    Anyway you get my point. I know you dislike me DeLaUK...for whatever reason... I'm sure you dislike me more than ever because of my respect for my breed's past and beleif and desire to keep the breed as it was but I guess that's our differences. I can understand your position on it of course...I'm likely just as annoyed with your position as you are with mine...but I can see where you are coming from... seeems you are so busy being offended or taken aback by who it is that respects this breed for what it was created for to notice that in some respect...we are right...

    To love this breed but not respect those that created it or the activity the breed was born of makes no sense to me honestly... respect doesn't mean you have to like it...or participate in it either...
     
  7. A.P.B.T. lover

    A.P.B.T. lover New Member

    I have made it quite clear by posting FACTUAL statistics, cases of mistaken identity, issues with people who do not know a pinch about my breed, that I do not trust a story written in some paper. Do not take a story as ingrained truth. I have gone after many newspapers because their Journalists did not take the time to research the animal they were writing about. I have forced newspapers to write rebuttals in their next paper to admit their mistake.
    After 27 years of knowing and loving this breed, presiding over a sanctioned ADBA Club, believe me, I know what I am talking about.

    I do not consider any un-papered, mixed bred, mutt a Reg'd American Pit Bull Terrier and neither does 750,000 other reg'd owners in North America. Our registered dogs are not the problem. If less then 1% of statistical information are about our reg'd animals, who's making up the rest of the percentage? I have never said I didn't think these dogs were not capable of causing damage. I said they have been wrongly accused by people who care nothing about the breed, but love sensationalism.
    Any dog can cause damage. A Hamster can cause damage. I have gone head to head with many mis-lead people. I have never lost a battle over the innocence of my breed. I am always well prepared :wink:
    You've hit the nail on the head. My Reg'd American Pit Bull Terrier is not a PIT BULL. A Pit Bull is a mixed bred mutt that bites someone. I am pasting a previous post I made so you know where I am coming from.


    We need to change the way we introduce our dogs in order to save our pure, registered breed.
    Everytime there is a bite, or attack, the media plasters their newspapers with, PIT BULL ATTACK.
    The mainstream public for the most part have no idea what a Pit Bull looks like. As far as the media goes, a PIT BULL is not a breed, but a dog that attacks someone. The Journal of American Medicine produce the , " Holy List" of bite statistics based on the Emergency Ward casualties, police , and dog control reports.
    It's unthinkable to know that a person in shock, fresh from a dog attack is asked, " What Bit you?" Grained into the brain is that word, "PITBULL".
    Based on years of personal experience regarding this matter 99.9% of the time the guilty party is NOT an American Pit Bull Terrier. I have rushed down to the local Dog Control and seen for myself these dogs that look nothing like the breed I raise. I put together a board at a local Pet Expo. It stated," Find the Pit Bull". There were 40 pictures of dogs. Out of the 35,000 people that walked through those doors each day, not ONE was accurate. Know why? The A.P.B.T. was not even there. He was home, snuggled up with his family, but you know he'll be accused for the attrocity the dogs on the board commit!
    When I walk my dog people rush up, commenting on how beautiful my dog is. They ask, " What breed is it?" I tell them a Registered American Pit Bull Terrier. The answer I get is usually, " Oh, I haven't heard of one of those before!"

    We need to save our breed, by ridding ourselves of the PIT BULL slang. My dog is NOT a Pit Bull. It is a Reg'd A.P.B.T.
    Negativity, hysteria, and ignorance DRENCH the name Pit Bull. Let's get rid of it! We can start by changing the title of this Forum
     
  8. Sara

    Sara New Member

    ADBA is all you had to say and I'd have figured out where you were coming from....LOL Hoping that you were directing support at my post regarding breeding them for the work they were bred to do as opposed to denying the work and making them into a pretty show dog that will be more likely to inflict harm...

    I'm fighting this very fact of work temperment being safer etc... within' my second favorite breed community...LOL... Always seems to fall that way.
     
  9. A.P.B.T. lover

    A.P.B.T. lover New Member

    The American Dog Breeders Association has been around since 1909 preserving the, "Working American Pit Bull Terrier".
    Our Pretty show dogs have broken weight-pull track records all over the world. We have Fly Ball Champions, Show Champions, Weight-pull Champions, Schutzund Trial Champions, Obedience Title Holders, Therapy Dogs, Movie Stars, Commercial Dogs, Rescue K-9 teams and the list goes on.....

    The ADBA standards are not that of SHOW. The ADBA has tried to preserve the breed the way it is supposed to be. These dogs are built to work. Lean body mass, leggier, a bit rangy, long stifles, short femurs, low body fat, with most of the conformation points being awarded for the back end of the dog. In other words, genetic problems like hip dysplasia are uncommon due to the fact that these dogs were not bred to be statues in the ring, but bred to work. Intelligence in these dogs runs deep.

    There is nothing wrong with socializing your dog with 300 people in a weekend with 150 other dogs. Keeping your dog cooped up with no interaction is a good way to harm your dog.

    Some of the ADBA weight-pulls are extremely competitive and can go on into the wee hours of the morning. These dogs are atheletes.

    I suggest you educate yourself on these topics before assuming a reg'd dog is nothing but a show dog. Like I have said before: Less than 1% of any bite statistic involves the Registered American Pit Bull Terrier. Why should we be made responsible for the other 99%? Let's pull away as a group, to save our dogs.

    My own Reg'd APBT has level 2 Obedience, and a good portion of our club have the coveted, " Good Canine Citizen" certificate.
    The ADBA rules state that no dog that is PEOPLE AGRESSIVE is allowed on the show grounds. If a dog does so much as growl under its breath at a judge it is asked to leave. I can say in 15 years of showing and weight-pulling I have never seen a dog and its owner be asked to leave.
     
  10. Sara

    Sara New Member

    Misunderstanding perhaps... the ADBA is the only org. as far as APBT's go that I support in their standard and practices... That was a point for you BTW...

    I want to visit an ADBA show because I know it's common practice to face dogs in order to place them if they are conformationally close and even then I'm sure they do it more than that... Point was that I'm aware that the ADBA preserves the working ability in the APBT with working competitions such as WP etc...

    Not sure if you'd seen me around before but I've participated in WP and enjoy it emensly and I own three REGISTERED Boerboels that are NOT just pretty faces either...

    Just trying to clear the air a bit as it seems I was mis-understood... Glad we're on the same page...
     
  11. A.P.B.T. lover

    A.P.B.T. lover New Member

    Facing of dogs is not allowed at any ADBA Conformation show. Dogs are to be facing tail to nose going the same way around the ring.
    If there is a dog that is talking a little too loud, he is excused from the inside of the ring to a quieter area, so he can be viewed appropriately.

    All judges make a speech before the show begins, to let everyone know of the rules. If any "Newby" faces off their dog, they are excused with no refund. The judge makes it clear that he can better judge your dog if you keep it quiet. The ADBA frowns upon Stacking a dog. The dog should be allowed to stand as it was bred. But, any good judge can see the conformation on a dog as it enters the ring at a fast walk. The judge walks up to the dog, views all angles, checks bite, and asks for a trot from A to B.

    Some ADBA judges will stand their 1st to 4th dogs in a line to better determine the proper placings. I don't like that, because I believe that everyone deserves to think they may have a chance the whole time they are in the ring :) Kind of like getting your moneys worth.

    ADBA shows are, for the most part, very well run. It's not like a Westminster Show, I can tell you that much. The Bulldog fraternity becomes like a 2nd family. Our get togethers involve, fundraisers, education, sometimes temperment evaluations, raffles, and big, beautiful barbeques at the end of the day :) It is a fantastic day to get together with like-minded individuals and rejoice in owning our breed of choice.

    I've been to shows in California, Utah, Oregon, Washington, Canada and they are all run by hardwork. Attitudes are left at the door, and we are very supportive of the judges decisions. Anyone questioning their placings are welcome to talk to the judge and he/she will always give a good, structured answer.

    I am only speaking of clubs that I have supported, that I have seen first hand. In my years of showing, I have pretty much met all the judges sanctioned. They all follow the show ring guide lines. Some judges will stop the show to correct the patrons if the are indeed facing off their dogs, as a warning. Others aren't so kind.

    At our Fun Shows for un-reg'd dogs, mixes, altered, we let them all know how it is severely frowned upon to face off your dog ANYWHERE. Dogs are kept five feet apart at our shows, just as a precaution.
     
  12. goob

    goob New Member

    I don't think you can blame the media for this one (though I'll give you that they've caused a lot of damage in the past), as the dogs were undoubtably APBTs, and though certain things may have been exaggerated or even made up, this situation couldn't have been good for the breed even if told as straight facts. And that fact remains that no matter what we call our dogs, when people look at them, they'll still see pit bulls. Same with lawmakers, who define pit bulls as Staffies, AmStaffs, and APBTs, as well as dogs that LOOK like those breeds. When it comes to our situation, the old adage, "A rose by any other name is still a rose" rings true.... it doesn't matter what you call them, they're still pit bulls to the general public.

    DeLA, I know of several reputable large scale rescue groups (that have experience handling gamebred dogs) which stepped up and offered to help out with these dogs and hold them until they could be found new homes or given back to their owner if he was found innocent, but nothing came of it and the dogs were apparently PTS the evening of the raid. I DO think this was probably an attempt at sending a message to others, "we did it to one of the biggest names in the business, and we could do it to you too"... it was setting an example, and I'd imagine they knew the laws and were using them to their advantage when they went into this case. I don't know about PETA, but I think I recall seeing a HSUS officer being interviewed as having been involved in the raid, and they're almost as bad when it comes to APBTs. And I understand your point about your own experience with AC, which I guess makes it easier for you to see why my concerns with this case lie where they do.

    I'm not sure if anyone else saw this, but there was a news article published about the petition that's been going around, with some other commentary by the head of the HS, you can see it here: http://www.klfy.com/Global/story.asp?S=3088016

    I especially like this part, "She says these dogs even started attacking each other while being transported."- Who in their right mind allows fighting dogs to be in such confines that they can attack each other? And also note that they (the media and humane groups) ARE always watching what we say and do online, and will use anything they happen to find as fodder against us (like the threatening emails, the petition, etc).

    Also, Sara, the AKC (and I'm pretty sure UKC too) will "spar" many of the terrier breeds in the case of a close match for placement, similar to what ADBA does. They do not do it with APBTs or Staffs because A. the only ting it shows is a spirit and willingness to engage another dog, not actual gameness (the dog could be a barnstormer for all they'd know), and B. having 50 lb dogs lunging at the end of a thin show lead would be really stupid :lol:
     
  13. A.P.B.T. lover

    A.P.B.T. lover New Member

    I think that is the whole point though. Each seperate, reg'd breed has to become completely seperate from one another. The law makers are putting a blanket over, PIT-BULL TYPES, and that is how they are passing laws to cover all breeds instead of making it breed specific.

    There should be representitive from each reg'd breed affected with their own list of statistics.
    Reg'd American Pit Bull Terriers
    Reg'd American Bulldog
    Reg'd Staffordshire Bull Terrier
    Reg'd American Staffordshire
    Reg'd Cane Corso
    Reg'd Dog de Bourdeaux
    Reg'd Argentine Dogo

    Protect your own to show it is not the reg'd breeds causing the problems. It's the cross-bred, heinz 57, kinda looks like, could be, ya I think it's own of those, ill-tempered junk dogs, 99% of the time.

    There is a bad apple in every bunch, no doubt about it.

    We can all agree that its:
    A- LOOSE DOGS
    B- IRRESPONSIBLE OWNERS
    C- PEOPLE AGGRESSIVE DOGS
    D- POORLY TRAINED

    All of these factors are the problem regardless of breed. If lawmakers and the general public can't make the destinction, we need to help them along the way. Otherwise our dogs are going to hell in a hand basket :cry:
     
  14. Sara

    Sara New Member

    Many terriers outweigh APBT's...and correct APBT's should not even weigh 50lbs... Engaging is one thing...and if the dog is trained it can be done...

    As for the dogs breaking into a fight...that doesn't mean they are fighting dogs... Riot's never seen a fighting pit and to my knowledge neither has my male pit...they didn't fail to get into a brawl when the meter man left my gate undone one day... They never fail to posture one another... it's a doggy thing to do honestly... that bears no proof of fighting.

    As for facing at ADBA shows... This may be a newer thing...I'm not sure but I do know that the dogmen I've been familiar with have had ADBA judges "face" dogs in the ring...not sure when or any of that jazz so it may be way out of date.

    I know the WP community is as tight as that of the community you speak of APBTlover... That is some comraderie I'd wish on EVERYONE...LOL... I miss it every dog show I attend too... just something about Bulldog people... Best part is how they eye newcomers with dogs at the ready for a quick gather up in case they don't follow the "don't crowd" rule...that is one thing I can't get over at other dog shows... It's like walking through a mine feild when you have a dog aggressive dog at the end of the lead... and the looks they can give you if the crated aggressor voices annoyance at a rottie staring it down is another icky part of the stuffy show crowd...

    Anyway...thanks for the rundown of the ADBA show...off topic but interresting...

    I do think the media is to blame for this particular issue...hype and desire to bring the "big boys" down without burden of proof or guilt and the media is there feuling the fire.
     
  15. goob

    goob New Member

    You have to remember that I'm talking about UKC/AKC, in which the majority of dogs fall between 40 and 60 lbs, as I was addressing why those venues don't do spar or face APBTs. The only two terrier breeds that regularly go over average APBT size are BRTs and Airedales, you have to remember that though some like the Kerry Blue look as big as the APBTs and Staffs, they're smaller boned and have a lot more fur to give the appearance of larger size, I think the upper limit on KBT size is 40 lbs. I don't even know if they spar Airedales and BRTs, and some judges won't do it at all anymore. My basic point in my original post was that facing two APBTs at a show and letting them open up really proves little as to how they measure up to the gameness aspect of the breed. It's been said time and time again that simple dog aggression or "go" means little in the gamedog world, so I wouldn't expect it to be the best measure of how true the dogs are to their breed.

    And I think you misunderstood my comment on the article... If she "knew" the dogs were fighting dogs, WHY would she put them in close confines so they could get at each other? She knows enough about the breed (I believe I read she even has a pit bull) to know that dog aggression is heriditary (and has said as much in some of the articles), so why would she do something that stupid?

    APBT Lover, Don't get me wrong, I'm all for seperation of the different breeds, but I don't think it could be done. At least not quickly enough to save the breed. Like I said, people have it engrained in their head that any big, stocky dog is a pit bull, and it will take decades of telling them otherwise to finally make a change, I don't think we have that long with all the places BSL is cropping up. It's human nature to group like things together, and as it is, most people won't believe that pit bull, AST, APBT, etc are not synonyms. At least that's how it is where I live.
     
  16. A.P.B.T. lover

    A.P.B.T. lover New Member

    You are right. It all depends on where you live. I was talking to my husband about how these conversations have been unravelling.
    Everyone is from a different part of the world, dealing with different types of dog owners. Some are right in the city where gang banger wanna be's fight their dogs in the alley, others are show people, some are rescue workers, some are just pet owners. It's easy to see how people can have different points of view. But we are all up against the same fight. The right to own our breed of choice.
    It all depends on what you've been subjected to. Just like chewing gum in class. Everyone is silently chewing going about their business, and some idiot has to pop a huge bubble and wreck it for everybody.
     
  17. True_Pits

    True_Pits New Member

    I'm not trying to say there are positives, but what I mean is you talk about the most negatives things with the worse people involved. Of course I am talking about some of the best people involved and they aren't all like this either, there is bad-good and inbetween I only did so to show that there is a difference, not everyone is like and not everydog has to undergo that.

    I'm not saying that they would't respect one another, its like I said many respect dogmen of the past for creating the breed and some today still have respect for them. It goes along with anything you do, with this breed and others, if you are a person who breeds really good weight pull dogs and takes a lot of time and care into training them the right wait and have almost unbeatable dogs you get a lot of respect and people think highly of you and your dogs. But these people aren't doing it FOR respect, they just gain peoples respect after somewhat "earning" it. I assume there could be those doing it in order to get respect from others involved, but that really seems like a farce to say as a whole when most don't care about respect, many more dogmen then you could imagine are not public and people that others have never heard of. I wasn't trying to leave it out purposes, I just don't see that as a big deal, for some it is, I'm sure you are right and thats what they want is the respect of other doggers, but not for all, many could care less. Again you are changing subjects, for we are talking about 2 different people. One who fights dogs for entertainment and money which you speak of and one who fights it again as a preservation method in their mind. It has absolutely nothing to do with the people who DON'T do that, not everyone is like that, its what I've been trying to say. It doesn't really make the dogfighting any less wrong, but it does mean that again what you are saying doesn't apply to everyone. Not everyone matches dogs (which is what you are describing) and not everyone sells pups (which would be another form of $$).


    If you look at most of the dogs being sent overseas it is a lot of the same people, few dogmen send dogs overseas and those are do are usually pretty careful about who gets them. However there will always be those peddling dogs and if you look at a lot of the popular overseas bloodlines, owned not only by dogmen overthere but people who would be idiots and other dogmen peddlers its a lot of the same blood you notice. I noticed a ton of Frisco and Chinaman blood everywhere overseas just like I do here, because Tom Garner is such a HUGE peddler and puppy mill and look at what he is breeding anyway, not really game dogs, he just breed good fighting dogs and match dogs and has an ego the size of the whole US and puts himself up high and so do all the people who worship him and think he is some type of good honest dogman when he is not. Yes he is a nice person, but you can be the nicest person in the world and still have a bad side. So much of the blood in the wrong hands seems to be coming from the same kennels, wildsides blood is everywhere and again, same thing peddlers with a puppymill tons of bybs and wannabe dogmen have this bloodline, they produce some very good dogs too for working or show dogs and sure its great some show kennels obtain the blood and breed it good, but look how many other peddlers and bybs have it, and how they have a ton of dogs and sold to anyone, don't really care nothing of their dogs IMO, they just don't seem to have it together breed some game dogs yes but will breed anything including a cur and breed a lot of litters. What else do I see, Hall/Bullyson blood everywhere. When I see the wrong type of people having gamebred dogs or dogs from game lineage it always seems to be a lot of the same lineage, popularity can be pretty bad for anyline and people (all breeders not just dogmen) should always keep a guarded bloodline if they want to protect the breed/their dogs and uphold quality of the line. Here is an exp: guy here has been breeding pretty much as long as Boudreaux, he was breeding gamedogs for the past 5 decades, yet nearly all his dogs were destroyed. Many stolen, poisoned, one lady also got several but no one knows where the heck she is at any given time and probably doens't have all these dogs any more. He had a very large yard, also had a son as well. He has been breeding this long and yet has sold very little pups, his whole yard is gone and now he has only a very few sources to go and get pups from his own line of dogs because it was so guarded by him, he culled so well and wouldn't peddle pups. He would rarely sell a dog and when he did it was to others like him or someone who knew would be keeping the dog forever and not allowing anything negative to come of it. So maybe there are some out there with dogs of his breeding, and he knows who they are, but it is a very limited amount that he will have to go back and get dogs from. But at least they are not in the hands of punks, peddlers, bybs, stupid pet owners, ect. Thats the price you pay, but you must sacrifice for your dogs and the breed as a whole, but never will all breeders do this much so we will forever be stuck in this poor state with the breed. I think that it WOULD be relavent, even if this is just a goat its not about what the dog did or killed, its about the owner and if the owner was irresponsible and got the dog from a dogger this would mean that the dogger obviously doesn't care what kind of numbskull gets his pups. If you saw the papers why not inform us of the bloodlines and how the dog was bred? What all has been sold and sent overseas to be bred and peddled? I completly understand about the children and it IS a big deal even if a dog is "just killing a goat" as some would say. It is a anothing living animal and is someone's pet.

    I just want to say that I'm not trying to change your mind, we all have opinions and believe certain things. I just don't want someone to see all the negative and worse part without knowing the difference or otherside. It doesn't make the otherside right, legal, or any but it is truly different. The dogs get much better treatment, are raised better, pups get good treatment and are raised right and healthy, the owners don't use bait dogs or abuse their animals to make them aggressive I think people should know this. Even if they are still wrong because they fight dogs. This is why I didn't agree with calling them all "sadistic freaks" as this would mean they gain pleasure from torturing and harming others (which could be animals) but this is not so. It has to do with the INTENT of the person. A lot of people ARE sadistic, they have ill intent and love to torture, that is why they put cats in bags and hang them from trees for dogs to attack, that is why they put their dogs on weaker dogs, that is why they burn their dog sometimes as punishment sometimes to death, thats why they starve and beat them, that is the same reason why people who don't fight dogs still might abuse their pit bulls it has to do with their state of mind. But for others the intent is different and pitting one dog with another dog, isn't done because they have an psychological problem of some kind, their mind is that of any other who works their dog. To them their "sport" is as legetiment as the next (even if "the man" has outlawed it), they do not do it to derived pleasure of toruring animals as they feel they are preserving the breed and don't see it as pleasure or entertain to pit two dogs with one another anymore then those using dog for catch work in which the dog could be severaly injured or killed by a boar. I see where "MyPetTherapyDog" is coming from in their post, there is a great correlation between animal abuse and those who commit voilent acts/crimes. I love to study up on psychology, even the grim part (rapist, serial killers, murders, ect) and I agree there is a big correlation between the likes and animal abusers. However to say that dogmen would be the same seems as ludacris as saying hunters or others who work their dogs would be. Of course some DO say this, there are extremes, not sure where it will all end, they inch and inch and take away more and more away even if it is the most harmless thing. They make statement about ALL gun owners being violent and dangerous and about hunters, saying "Anyone who can raise a gun to an animal and kill it, could do the same to a human, it is no different then murder" Well I just think they are crazy, but they have already outlawed some hog hunting and made laws, and want to take guns away and in some places ban hunting all together. Of course there is good and bad in everything, I know a hunter who would kill anything just for sport and out of season, was an alcoholic, was verbally abusive to his children, abusive to his wife, disrespectful to others, a good example for them to use huh? But then I know a hunter who only kills what he is supposed to, uses all the meat, what he can't he gives away to friends/family which has saved me from going hungry a few times when beef prices were too high, he respect others, isn't abusive to his wife and she wouldn't be one to let anything like that happen (most women in this type of situation have problems themselves), he is a very good father, he doesn't abuse his kids in anyway, he pays attention to them, listens to them, plays with them, takes his son with him when he can and spends time with them much more then I can say for most parents these days. They are both very good parents. But to the wackos all hunters are just the same, mindless, sick killers who are dangerous people. Just like dogmen I guess, even though they are not so, they are not child abusers or wife beaters, there is good and bad in them and I have known a bad one, all though I would never allow the term dogman for exactly what they were. You can judge people by how they treat their children, upon seeing that he yells and curses at them that tells you really what type of person he is, even though he might have had nice dogs with good bloodlines, what else did he turn out to be? A liar, paper hanger, dog theif, breeds dogs too young, rolls dogs young, let dogs starve, ripped people off for money, owes everyone they used to call a friend, owes people dogs/pups, breeds a lot of litters enough of them pointless breedings, sells pups to whoever, whenever, has a suspended DL, has other legal problems, should I go on? I understand their is real scum out there. Just like there are good/bad weight pullers. But to the nuts and PETA type people they are all cruel people, I had someone tell me something like drag weighting my dog is cruetly, people who do it shouldn't be allowed to own dogs and need to get help for themselves. Its bad for the animals, its wrong to force them to do things like that. Can't think of what else they've said is cruel. So where does it end? One day these extremist will be considered normal, while those opposed to it will be considered out of mainstream society.


    What facing dogs? Whats that all about, never seen or been told to do that. When there is close conformation between the 2 dogs the judges put you side by side to they can compare (nose to tail not face to face), look it over again, check out each dogs conditioning, ask you to walk again or even a couple times to see the gait. Not face the dogs off as its against the rules and would be stupid of the judge to tell you to do. They will sometimes remind you to turn your dog to the right, nose to tail if you aren't being very good at it, even if the dog next to you (or both dogs) is quit they will still say something because you aren't inline and following the rules.
     
  18. goob

    goob New Member

    True, I'd heard about the facing a few other times before this, so I figured there was probably some truth to it. Maybe the people had the wrong venue though, I'd just wanted to point out that it's pretty ineffectual on how the dogs meet the true APBT standard.
     
  19. DeLaUK

    DeLaUK New Member

    These posts are getting longer.
    Once some Animal Control, Humane (and I use that word questionably) Society get hold of any dogs that come in to 'certain categories' they wont release them to anyone, often even the owners wont get them back. The city I was in was h*ll bent on euthanizing specific breeds, but the adjoining city's AC decided which ones to euthanize or put up for adoption depending on the temperement of the dog and not the breed, they also knew that not every dog, whatever the breed, is necessarily going to get along with other dogs, cats etc and through their shelter would make sure that potential owners were fully aware that 'dog A' should be the only dog in the house or 'dog B is fine with other dogs but not good with cats. But they only have so much space and they do work with local private rescues when they can. I believe that there are good people working in AC and HSUS, but as with everything theres also the extreme fanatics that in my opinion puts them in the same class as any hard core animal rights activists who too often do more harm than good.
    The way I feel about anyone who fights dogs doesnt mean I think the dogs should be euthanized which is what this is really about.
    Because Im against people fighting dogs doenst mean that Im against everything else that dogs do theres a lot of 'activities' out there for just about every breed and every breed has its specialty, they dont need to be abused though. Isnt there enough violence and bloodshed already.
    I would like to clarify something though, when I refer to Pit Bulls I do mean APBT's, I dont mean Am Staffs, Bull Terriers, right now, off the top of my head I cant think of another breed that has the Pit in its name....In UK Ive usually heard English Bull Terriers referred to as Bull Terriers, in US Ive heard people with Am Staffs refer to their own dogs as Staffordshires, to me a Staffordshire is the UK 'version' and a lot smaller than the US.
    I totally agree that most of the problems concerning BSL's are down to wrongly identifying dogs and sensationalist/shock media. As for the papers referred to on the attacks I mentioned, no I cant provide proof, it was all 20 years or so ago, I know with the goat the guy had done nothing but talk about this 'new Pit Bull' he was getting for months, he had Staffs before but got rid of them because this new dog was "tougher and could take anything", Ill even go so far as to say that the dog made no attempt at going for any people and ran straight past a couple of kids that were running around so it could get to the goat, no signs of human aggression which a lot of the Staffs did have, my daughter was attacked by a neighbours Staff when she was about 3 or 4 years old, no lasting scars except the bruises and the fear for a while.....I didnt blame the dog I blamed the owner who had the dog mostly shut away in her yard with minimal contact with people....as for the papers... I saw the papers, never occured to me I should make a copy to show as proof for something now, I dont remember the bloodlines but then again I dont exactly remember the bloodlines on my Shepherd that I had 28 years ago....I think it was Blue ????? but not sure.
     
  20. Angie

    Angie New Member

    How do they know that every one of these dogs were fighting dogs? How can you call a puppy a fighting dog without giving it a chance to grow in a loving home?

    Also, I agree what someone (Goob, I think) said about the stupidity of putting "fighting dogs" close enough where they can get at each other.
    I mean shouldn't they have used common sense?! :roll:
     

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