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aggressive pitbull pups

Discussion in 'Dogs - all breeds / types' started by paul_dawson, May 10, 2004.

  1. kyles101

    kyles101 New Member

    ALL dogs have the potential to react with a killer instinct. i also highly doubt a 4 month puppy would attack. i agree with ginah in that in the original psot the truth has been stretched. i dont know any breed of dog that needs 4 people to pry it off another when its 4 months old.
  2. loves-da-pits

    loves-da-pits New Member

    gailau wrote:
    In my opinion, raising PitBull pups aren't much different than raising any other pup. All pups have the potential to be aggressive and if not properly trained, and would have to be separated from other dogs. I always closely monitored my Pits as pups when they eat and when they played. They look to me as the "Pack Leader." I was rewarded with having kind, loving and non-aggressive family members. They don't have to be separated from each other, other people, or my cats for that matter. I've adopted other breeds and mutts in the past, and had more aggression issues with them. Since they were not trained before I got them, there was constant fights breaking out where I was bit trying to break it up. Eventually, they always had to be separated from each other. It was a terrible way to live. I now just have the two Pits and we all live in peaceful harmony. All it took was proper training. I have a feeling, though, that paul-dawson's parents main objective is is to have these dogs as a deterent to possible criminals which leads me to believe the dogs will be confined to a yard mainly for protection instead of being part of the family. This could cause a dog of any breed to develope it's own aggressive traits if not trained to do otherwise. Just because someone has a dog and feeds it twice a day and give it water, shade, a place to sleep, doesn't necessarily make them good dog owners if they don't take the time to interact with them, train them, and show affection. What will happen is these dogs may become aggressive and hard to handle and will become another "PitBull" statistic by being placed in a shelter and eventually put down because they are unadoptable.
  3. Jamiya

    Jamiya New Member

    I think another mistake that was made here that is worth bringing up is the purchase of a particular breed based on one previous dog that the people loved. I remember reading about this exact thing in some book....might have been "The Other End of the Leash" by Patricia McConnell, but don't quote me on that.

    Anyway, the author was talking about the number of people who have come to her with their new dog, in dismay because they are having problems. It then comes out that they bought the dog because, "We had a ______ when we were growing up and it was the best dog ever." So they buy the same breed, expecting to get the same dog.

    This simply does not hold true. A breed can give you a general idea of possible temperament and personality, but it can't tell you what each individual dog will be like. There are loving pits and there are probably mean pits. There are sweet chihuahuas and mean little suckers. There are compliant Goldens and there are stubborn Goldens with heads full of rocks.

    Each dog is an individual, and to expect one to be just like another representative of the breed is irresponsible. Each dog should be chosen for its own temperament and personality and fit with the family, and not based on its breed description. If you truly "love pits" then by all means, get a pit - but don't expect it to be just like your last one, and don't think you can choose any pit you want and get a good dog. All dogs are unique.

  4. GinaH

    GinaH New Member

    I currently have 4 female APBT the oldest being 3 years and the youngest is 5 months.
    3 of my dogs are rescue dogs so they are all from different backgrounds and IM sure were the product of BYB. And I can honestly say we have no problems I have never once worried one of them might kill the other. They have their occasional tiffs with each other and as I said before I make sure to correct them and let them know aggressiveness will not be tolerated.
    I also foster for my local shelter so I constantly have different breeds of dogs in and out of my home. Luckily I live in the country and have several acres of land so that I do have the capacity to care for several dogs at one time and they each have their own outdoor kennels when it gets to crowded inside. I guess it's just hard for me to grasp the thought of a 4 month old puppy attacking or killing another puppy because it's never happened to me or even come close to happening. To me a 4 month old puppy is still a baby. Any puppy that is capable or has the will to attack or kill another at such a tender age would never be a welcomed member of my family. I guess I just can't imagine it.
  5. bullylove1

    bullylove1 New Member

    "The message is quite clear .... to own a Pit Bull one needs to do a lot of research and be very guarded in the dog's upbringing. It would appear Pit Bulls do have some rather questionable characteristics which are not for the faint-hearted canine lover - I know I would prefer to "enjoy" a pup and watch it mature into a kind, loving and non-aggressive family member without having to "separate" it from its own kind to avoid trouble."

    Yes, owners of any breed should research the dog before they buy/adopt it. Not just the APBT. I personally have only owned large breed dogs, therefore, if I were to own a small breed such as a chi, I wouldn't know what food to feed, how much, the type of excercise. Therefore, I would be a potentially dangerous owner to this breed because I had not researched it. We all want a pup that is loving and non-aggressive, but, the fact is some dogs are aggressive. This doesn't mean you love them any less. All it means is that you take extra precautions in your life to ensure the safety of your dog, and others animals. I know many people that have multi dog households (3-6 dogs) and all have to be kept seperate at ALL times. None of these people own a Pit Bull. They are all different breeds of dogs, that just have dog aggression.
    I do agree that this breed is not for everyone, and unless they have a lot of time and patience, I do not recommend this as a "first dog" to many people.

    "On a final note, I respect all breeds and I know even the most docile can turn and bight the hand that feeds it, but I do take comfort in knowing that it would be out of the ordinary incident rather than the norm.[/quote]

    That is not an ordinary incident for the APBT. In fact, APBT's should never show human aggression, and those who do need to be euthanized. Those are the products of BYB's ruining this breeds reputation.
    What I don't think you may realize is that Human Aggression and Dog Aggression are 2 COMPLETELY different things. Harley, my girl is extremely dog aggressive, but, if someone were to brake into my home, all she would do is roll over for some belly rubs.

    "I find it a little unnatural for for domestic puppies to attack and kill one another - someone would be hard pressed to convince me that this is perfectly normal. "

    Well, how about a bitch being bred to young and while giving birth she eats her babies? This is because she is not mentally ready to handle the responsibility of motherhood, and does not know how to handle her "situation". This is a sad and rare occurence, but it does happen. WE may find things to be "unnatural", but we must remember that we are not animals. We can not possibly know what they are thinking, therefore, we try to understand them instead of labeling them.

    I agree with Jamiya, far too many people are getting dogs for the wrong reasons. Just because your Spaniel was great when you were 8 yrs. old, that doesn't mean that your new one will have the same great personality. It is important to research dogs before a purchase.
    Grwon weight, how much excercies, problems the breed is prone too, how much you are willing to spend on food, toys etc. each month. All these and more are crucial points to know when you get a dog.
  6. Sara

    Sara New Member

    Gamebred Pit Bull pups are known to need separating at a young age.

    Don't confuse animal aggression with people aggression...

    And NO owning an APBT is not for the faint of heart... They are animal aggressive and the stigma ALONE requires that owners of APBT's be strong willed and able to cope with a bad rep...

    Owning a breed so badly ruined by the media and bad breeders requires lots of knowledge. They are not a bad breed.... People have demonized them in the media and with their breeding and housing practices... The APBT is responding to his/her environment and being used by worthless thugs as guard dogs and fighters and being abused beyond most people's comprehension has caused them to react badly to the very human's they regularly died for back when they were an American Icon....

    No... No large breed working dog is for the faint of heart...
  7. Samsintentions

    Samsintentions New Member

    The pup I was talking about was aroudn 3 1/2 months.... There were five of them in the litter.

    But who in their right mind would pick a PITT to guard??? I'm sorry but I've said this before, Using a dogs looks for the wrong reason is what turned their reputaion bad. A friend of mine has a pitt. he'd probably open the door for burgalars and help carry stuff out!!!!!!

    Like I said, Get the PROPER breed of dog to be a GUARD DOG>....

    Thats kina like getting a Chi to protect a castle!!!!
  8. Sara

    Sara New Member

    Most people wanting a "guard dog" don't have the knowledge or reserve to be able to handle a true guardian breed...

    Especially folks buying pit bulls for guarding purposes...

    People need to read up about it...and get a dog the suits them the best...based on breed and education...not fuzzy memories.
  9. Jules

    Jules New Member

    I think alot of what gailau said was warranted. (Although I just have to add I'm not comfortable with the last statement.) I have read alot about people saying that pits are great dogs, and I'm sure they are, but the majority of the owners do agree that they can be dog aggressive and that the pups need to be separated.
    I own two dogs, and they spend alot of time together alone- a doberman and a doberman cross, it would be impossible to keep them separated all of the time! Sometimes I have to go to my part time job- sometimes go food shopping! What do you pit owners do- section off your back yard? Chain them up?
    I know the media portrays these dogs (and other dogs) as aggressive which instills fear into the public (which is sad indeed), yet I was on the defense for these dogs but after reading some of the stuff that actual pit owners write about this breed I am not so sure that they can be trusted around other dogs. And this wasn't my opinion before. Now I know some people are going to get their back up over this, but I again I am going on what pit owners have said about this breed on this thread.
    My dobe pup is 5 months old and I just couldn't imagine her attacking another dog!! I know each dog has their own personality, but each breed does have certain characteristics. You know that chihuahua's are generally nervous dogs who rarely get along with other dogs. I know that there are some variations out there of course, but all the chihuahua's out there I know have been like that. This is just one example, of course all dogs are going to have their own personalities.
    Now bring on the criticism!!! I find it somewhat contradictory that someone puts the breed down because they say that they are dog aggressive, and then a pit owner replies in defence, but then proceeds to agree that they need to be separated because they are aggressive.
    I may missing a point here or something, and please don't take my post the wrong way. I have an open mind and am willing to look at the facts if you would like to enlighten me.
  10. Jules

    Jules New Member

    Oh, and I also agree with the thing Jamiya said about getting the same dog because the last one they had of that breed was great. As I just said in my previous post, you can expect some of the same characteristics, but of course the new dog is not going to be a replica/ replacement of the old dog. (I also read those two books and can not remember either which one it came from lol) Maybe an example is like having two kids from the same parents, they both may inherit being messy and lazy from their parents, yet they are still going to have two different personalities!
    If you do like the general characteristics of a breed then you should go for it again, but not if you are just trying to directly replace your old dog. The new dogs should be seen as individuals and not compared to another previous dog, this is quite sad for the dog, and fraustrating for the owners.
    I once remember having a job in a milk bar, and I replaced another girl that the manager had LOVED, and would constantly remind me every day of how great this girl was, I just didn't seem to cut it for her, and boy did it make me feel like scum!!! LOL! (joke!):mrgreen:
  11. bullylove1

    bullylove1 New Member

    I find it somewhat contradictory that someone puts the breed down because they say that they are dog aggressive, and then a pit owner replies in defence, but then proceeds to agree that they need to be separated because they are aggressive.
    I may missing a point here or something,

    Yes, Jules, you are missing the point. And the point is this. We don't want you putting down our breed of dog because its dog aggressive. Yes we do agree with it becasue its true, we are not stupid! This to some is a "problem", and you are the owners who would not have this breed, and to that I am thankful. Dog aggression, just like a nervous dog are traits of a breed, and should not be put down because of it. I have many friends that own Pits that love other dogs, and would just die from heartbreak if they had to be seperated from their buddy. I also know someone that has 6 dogs in her house plus a husband and 3 children, none of the dogs are Pits, but all are aggressive and all have to be seperated at all times. To you this may seem out of the norm, but to someone with a dog aggressive dog, it becomes a way of life.

    Personally I hate small breed dogs, and am terrified of my dad's chiuaua because it is so nervous, but have me out with Harley my 50Lb. AmStaff and have her react because she sees another dog and I am as cool as cucumbers.

    Sure, I wish she wasn't dog aggressive, but she is, so, like someone with a nervous or barky dog, I am not going to give up on her because she has a flaw. Everyone does.
    Its how we deal with the Pit Bull flaws that seperate responsible ownership from irresponsible ownership.

    For instance, as a responsible owner, I don't take Harley off leash in public, the few times we do go to a dog park we choose a secluded path where no other people take their dogs because it is around the hill instead of up an over, and when I take her for a walk/run it is early morning or late evening to avoid confrontation.

    If I were irresponsible, I would not have a secured fence, would care less about making sure Harley and I were advocating for the breed by showing a good example. I would probably let her run loose on a lead and hope that nothing happened, and if she did attack act like an idiot and say "oh, this is so weird, she's never done this before."
  12. loves-da-pits

    loves-da-pits New Member

    Jules Said:
    I'm sure most Pit owners will let me have it good on this one, and don't get me wrong because I value their opinions and advise, but I don't separate my Pits at all. After careful training, interacting, monitoring, I feel that they are perfectly safe with one another. I tried to separate them because that's what everyone said I should do, but they are so devoted to each other that it was really traumatic for them to be apart. They were raised together since pups. They are never more than a foot apart from one another. In fact this really concerns me enough to draw legal documentation that if anything should happen to both me and my husband, that they should not be separated. One would not be able to function without the other. But I feel I know my Pits good enough to come to this decision. My Grace came from a B.Y.B. and she had all the odds stacked against her as far as her physical and mental health. We did have some issues with her like her separation anxieity, but she just had to be worked with a little bit harder. With training, and a whole lot of love, she has developed into a wonderful family dog that is good with our other Pit, cats, adults, and kids. I have to honestly say, these are the best, well mannered dogs that I have ever been around.
  13. GinaH

    GinaH New Member

    loves-da-pits I also have always kept my girls together except for when I am away from the house or at bed time they stay in their individual crates or in their own kennels outside. They have never fought with each other they also get along great with my pekingese and cats.
    They do not however get along with strange dogs so when I foster I do have to keep them seperated.
  14. ILoveGreatDanes

    ILoveGreatDanes New Member

    oh i HATE that!!!! I used to hear it at the pet store I worked at when I was a teen...I hear it at the dog park..I hear it on message boards....there is nothing MORE incorrect than this statement right here. I dont care if you had TEN cocker spaniels that never peed on the floor....you raised all 10 dogs and they all probably had similar personalities because YOU are the same person as you always have been and YOU raised all 10 dogs relatively similar ways! Cocker Spaniels are peemonsters.

    This phrase is one of my biggest pet peeves! Thanks for posting that =)
  15. Sara

    Sara New Member

    Someone asked how we pit owners deal with our dogs and their dog aggression so... Here goes my response.

    I own two APBT's and Two Boerboels (South African Mastiffs). The mastiffs and Pits don't get along so they don't hang out together. I have a front yard and a back yard separated by a fence. My pits get the front (one is a jumper and is tied) and the Boerboels get the back... So... I let them all out...for an hour or so and then bring them in at feeding time. They all eat in their own separate crates and hang out for about another hour... Then they go out again. The Boerboels are out all day and the pits come in with me when I'm home or stay in their crates. The pits get along fine together when I'm home but I'd never trust that horseplay would not turn into serious problems. The toys are picked up around the house no matter what if more than one dog is in. I monitor play for the pits and when it gets heated they are reprimanded to settle down. Any sign of aggression from either pit is not tolerated. They do love eachother no doubt...but they also find it to be quite a charge to play more rough than any other breed I've seen...which in turn could turn into a fight and I don't want to take that chance...

    Some pit owners do but I'd rather not. I've had a litter mate of my female that I fostered for a time and they got along fine until one day I was in the yard with one, the other in the other yard...she jumped the fence...tried to get into the game...started a fight with my girl and I was sure I'd watch her sister die in the clenches of her jaws. We got my girl off of her sister but from that point on the girls were not allowed together. Both my pits are dog aggressive. Neither go to dog parks and are always on a leash in public.

    So I play with the pits during the day in the house and at night in the evening the Boerboels come in and lounge on the floor while we watch movies. All the dogs sleep and eat in their crates and it's really not that difficult to keep them separated.

    Some of you may not understand why anyone would go to this trouble for their dogs... those of you who feel that way have never owned a pit before.

    Soem of you think your dogs will be fine together at all times...but you may be wrong one day and if I were you I'd rather not take that chance.

    The day before my girl got into the fight with her sister...the two of them were sharing a cushion on my couch like pups...sprawled out atop one another... and in an instant they were literally at eachothers throats. I'd think twice about keeping your dogs together (no matter what breed IMO) when not supervised.
  16. gailau

    gailau New Member

    I am finding this particular post very interesting and I must admit I am learning a great deal about Pit Bulls just from all the responses. It seems that Pits are generally "people friendly" and their main aggression, if any, is focussed on their own kind.

    Referring back to the South African situation, that in itself doesn't seem to represent a very good choice of breed if the purpose of buying the pups was for protection. Any dog that is aggressive towards humans without training is a real worry.... I know some people get a great sense of security from owning a large, powerful, intimidating creature, but that can be a very dangerous combination.

    Dogs destinated for a protective role have to undergo very long and arduous training and develop an umistakable trust in their owner. They must respond on command without exception. It is a very unique partnership.

    Many domestic pets can be extremely protective of their "family" - in most lifetimes the average owner will never come to see this. Nevertheless, should the situation ever occur where the dog perceives a family member is being threatened, he may well rise to the occasion, but unfortunately the owner has little control over the pet dog who is involved in a full on attack.

    I really do think the South African venture has the potential to go very wrong if Mum and Dad did buy the pit bulls with the intention of having built-in protection. On the positive side, their presence alone may act as a deterrent to many would-be intruders but I just hope that they will be nurtured into the family unit and not be simply regarded as security aids. I don't think, or at least I hope this wasn't Mum and Dad's intention.

    The best advice about this whole subject was the suggested relocation - off the top of my head, I can only name about 1 million other places where one can lead a perfectly normal, peaceful existence without the threat of violence on your doorstep .... and the Pit Bulls would love it too!
  17. Sara

    Sara New Member

    True... They were specifically bred to show those traits above all else... Who wants to break up a fight where they would also be attacked by their own dog... OR who wants to doctor up a dog, badly injured in a fight, who is going to bite and act crazy...? No one and the people who bred APBT's for fighting and used them as such kept that in mind and did not keep dogs that were that much trouble to handle themselves.

    All guardian breeds have that propensity...

    This is what I meant by "no, no large breed working dog is for the faint of heart"

    Dogs work GREAT as deterrents and even little dogs will work well to deter anyone from breaking in. Statistics show that people who perpetrate crimes like breakin and entering and that sort of thing will hit a house without a dog before going to a house with a dog (no matter what breed or size that dog is).

    As far as re-locating... It's rather unrealistic for these folks to move to a saver place...this is South Africa so not the same as what we encounter here in America... What I don't understand is why these folks chose an APBT for protection when there are other more suitable and I assume more common breeds in South African to choose from who are bred to protect. Oh Well...

    I hope many of you have been educated about Pit Bulls and have been able to understand why people own them and love them the way we do.
  18. Jules

    Jules New Member

    Ok Bullylove...I'm not on the defense here- I just wanted to say a couple of things and don't really know how to go about it and exactly what I want to say but here goes...

    You tell me not to put the dogs down because they are aggressive towards other dogs, yet you also say you wish she wasn't. So this says to me that you don't think this is a GOOD trait. I know many people who would think of this as an undesirable trait. But I commend you on being a responsible owner of the breed, because there are many people out there who own these dogs who do not put the effort in that they should. I know of a guy down the road who has a pit and he lets it run off lead down at the park. I used to take my dogs there, but am not so sure I'd like to bump into this guy and his dog...and here is the reason- I heard that someone asked him what would he do if his dog attacked someone (I'm thinking more likely that his dog might go another dog but I'm just telling the story) and he said he would drop the lead and turn around and go home and pretend he didn't own the dog. Now that sounds like a dedicated dog owner!!!! (sarcasm implied..) So I guess I told that story of an example of how the public would see this aggressive trait in these dogs as undesirable, especially with owners like that.
    I understand you love your dog and would love her and look after her no matter what problems she may have... so would I, if my dog became aggressive for some reason, I also would deal with it in the neccesary ways and love it still. It would be a problem though, for me and my dog, as it wouldn't be able to go places with me as easily as we do now, and it would loose alot of it's freedom.
    I also didn't think that I really put them down as such, but I hear people saying they are sweet as pie... and aggressive also, so now I guess that I have learnt that they do have a higher tendancy to be dog aggressive.
    I think I have been all over the place in this post and am getting quite confused, I have been adding bits in and deleting bits... I am not against these dogs at all- I do defend these dogs if someone says something bad... after all, it's the owners responsibilty to control their dogs.
    And you are right Bullylove, I do not desire to own an aggressive dog- but am not putting you down for your choice of dog, after all my Mums foxy x chihuahua hates other dogs but she is such a loveable thing, you just deal with these things as needed.
  19. bullylove1

    bullylove1 New Member

    I hope you didn't take too much offence to my post either.
    Here is what I meant by wishing she was not aggressive. She unlike you and other dogs, doesn't have as much freedom as I would like her to have. Do I feel she is deprived? NO WAY! But, I do know how much she just loves to run off lead and do sometimes wish I was one of the owners whos dog isn't dog aggressive. That's all. It is a trait in their breed, and you have to know before you get this dog that there is a higher possibility of them being dog aggressive than not.

    As for the jerk down the street from you, I would see if his dog is licensed, and if not, call animal control and see if they can enforce him to get his dog licensed. That way if an accident happens, he wont have a chooice but to stay and fess up. It makes me so mad when people are so irresponsible with their dogs. You have a right to not want to bring your dogs to the park anymore, I wouldn't want to either.
    It is a pain in the ass when you go out and not only have to watch your dogs but everyone else's aswell.
  20. Jules

    Jules New Member

    I know this guy is really irresponsible... I have seen him hit his dog with the lead, which is a chain. This guy used to be good friends with my partner... and he can be nice- but he is REALLY stubborn and closed minded and no one can tell him what he does is wrong... he is such a fiery person. We have tried to tell him that he shouldn't have a dog- he has a miniscule backyard and it was an impulse decision to get one. But you don't understand how stubborn he is. He thinks the best way to train a dog is to have the dog fear you... I'm pretty sure the dog is registered, must ask my partner about it. It's really hard when you see somene you know doing something wrong... you can make enemies with someone pretty fast if you intervene. I just cant stress the fact enough that he just wont listen to anyone. He is quite aggressive himself too sometimes, he gets so fired up and he is like a time bomb.
    Anyway yesterday I was out walking my dogs and this big dog came out of nowhere and ran up to my dogs. This dog was quite assertive and looked quite threatening, both my dogs were scared of him. He was standing up tense and had his ears right up and was making jerky movements. Leela was crouching down on the ground... this dog had not been desexed either and was taking a bit too much interest in Leela for my liking... and the owner was NO WHERE TO BE SEEN. My dogs just wanted to keep walking but this other dog kept following us. I dealt with this awkward situation for about 5 minutes before the owner finally surfaced and called his dog back. I don't mind meeting other dogs in the park although my dogs don't like really "dominant" dogs like that and the fact that the owner wasn't even present got me worked up.
    There are so many irresponsible dog owners!!!

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