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Dare I say it....Another breed?????

Discussion in 'Dogs - Pit bull breeds specific' started by BronxthePit, Sep 30, 2004.

  1. BXRchicProPit

    BXRchicProPit New Member

    Search your shelter and get a cool-gee-I-never-thought-of-those-two-breeds-together mix!
    I saw one on petfinder today for a Boxer (one after my own heart) and dobe mix!
    She was cuuuuuute!

  2. BXRchicProPit

    BXRchicProPit New Member

    sorry, ad on to previous post...

    but look at this girl's but on the picture!
    She's a mix and yet her tail appears to be docked...? :roll: <sigh>
    I'm all for making breed standards (and expectations-I'm pro choice on this issue) but for [pete's] sake, why would someone dock a mix?
  3. CockatielCrazy87

    CockatielCrazy87 New Member

    Rottweilers are Awsome dogs :eek: . We have had 3 in our past. When were very first moved here when had the first two Misha and Colbalt. They were both 6 when we moved in here and my mom and dad called them my babysitters. I rode Colbalt and napped with Misha they were awsome dogs very well behaved and smart. When i was 7 Colbalt had to be put down because of old age and hip problems that was the first time i ever saw my father cry. About 2 months afte colbalts death Misha died of old age in her sleep but I truly think she died of heartbreak. When I was 10 we got our next Rottie a 4 year old female rescued Rottie named Star she was a beautiful girl and was very protective of me. When Star was 8 she was diagnosed with Cancer it was hard to lose her and we buried her in the back with the other two rotties. Im totally expecting to get anouther Rottweiler someday after I move out and have my own place.

    Rottweilers are awsome dogs but it takes a firm voice, time, patience, and love to raise a well behaved one. Um males airn't as smart as females but are less aggressive surprisingly enough but are harder to train. Females are very bright and i find them easy to train and very sweet but are more aggressive. Their a breed that requires alot of training at a young age or you have 200 pounds of shear dog controling you before you know it.

    Mastiffs are nice too and very sweet dogs. But fi i were you i would research all my potential dogs and just figure out which wouldbe best for you and one that would mesh well with your two recent dogs.
  4. Sara

    Sara New Member

    Docking is done most often in working breeds/animals and has nothing to do with how the dog looks... it's likely the tail was docked to prevent further damage. I've yet to see many bandogs with natural tails so it's also possible that the mix was spawned by the "bandog" ideal and thus the tail was docked... The tail could also have been docked for medical reasons.
  5. BXRchicProPit

    BXRchicProPit New Member

    I like the look of a docked tail (my boxer is docked), but I also have had multiple dogs in my lifetime WITH tails, so I don't buy the "so it doesnt get hurt" excuse. that's what people say when they feel that they are going to be criticized for having a docked dog.
    Tails were originally docked to avoid a tax (in the old days) regarding working/non-working dogs.
    That gets us into a whoooooole different debate though. :wink:
    At any rate... whats a "bandog"?
  6. Sara

    Sara New Member

    A bandog is a cross bred dog bred in a manner for work generally used in Personal Protection or Hog hunting. It can be done responsibly and is usefull in many cases... HOWEVER cross breeding dogs these days for profit rather than for use is more comonly done and this is not considered a "bandog". A bandog is a dog created specifically for a purpos. The best one I can think of that would give you a better idea of what it is or why people do it is to go look at a "donovan's Pincher" and see his website regarding the use and purpose of his dogs and this cross...

    I'm sorry you don't buy the "for their protection" bit but truly it happens more times than most expect, that a tail is injured and therefore needing docked...specifically working dogs. My breed is a working breed that is generally most often docked for the only reason that it poses less of a problem "working". I have a Pit Bull female that almost had to be docked due to a tail injury as did her sister (only a tiny portion of the end of her tail had to be docked with the possibility of more) due to problems caused by simply wagging it. Ears are also cropped in working dogs more often for protection. Depending on what kind of job they are doing.... Pits were cropped so that in the "pit" if a dog encountered an "ear grabber" the ear would not be there to act as an aid for the other dog... Many hog dogs are cropped and docked to make that easier.

    Jack Russell Terriers (not the new standard/breed) were docked (as are other earth dogs) in order to create a "handle" for handlers to pull these dogs OUT of the holes will... They have a prescribed lenght and having it longer poses a problem for the dog to turn around in the hole with and also for injuries to happen.

    Sometimes it may be for vanity but it is basically the same concept as removal of dew claws as a safety measure... You'd have to read up more to beleive it...and it's likely you won't as you have your mind made up... Truly though most of the things like cropped ears and docked tails in dogs is done for more of a reason that "taxation".
  7. True_Pits

    True_Pits New Member

    Boxers and Dobies both have docked tails, so I'm assuming thats why the tail was docked. Most mixed pups I've known where just one parent has a docked tail they will do the litter.

    Now that I don't buy, considering the amount of game dogs that have natural ears as well as the historic game dogs who beared natural ears. Ears were usually cropped if infact DAMAGED, but not before. An ear sucker going for a cropped ear would actually be grabbing onto the side of the dogs head instead. When the dog has cropped ears its a lot easier to get blood in the ear canal and cause further damage to the inner ear. If the ears did get tore up, they would be cropped, and may be cropped again and again if they are repeatly torn. Most of the time the dogs come out just fine with their ears though.
    Even Colby's Pincher still had his ears after 24 wins.
  8. BXRchicProPit

    BXRchicProPit New Member

    Aside from waaay out of left field, I have no idea where or why this attack came about, but I must refute because it's in my nature...

    I have "read up on it" and in fact that is where my point of "taxation" has come from. ORIGINALLY, dogs were docked because of the owners wanting to avoid taxes (specifically Farmers who were taxed on all their animals in correlation to the lengths of their tails). Along with multitudes of other "original" reasons.
    I know that Earth dogs were docked for "Handles" to be pulled out of holes.
    I know that a dog's tail may be run over by a car and need removing (I've seen that episode of Emergency Vets on Animal Planet :wink:
    But the fact remains that those who cling for dear life to the "he could hurt it" theory on why tails should be/are docked are deviating from reality.
    The truth is "yes, he could hurt it" He could also hurt his legs, his nose, and his ears-so lets chop 'em off" ? Is that the rationale behind this?
    Granted, with an understanding of the "Handle" usage and the like-it makes perfect sense... but if a working dog is not used as a working dog... what's the point? (other than sticking to a breed standard)
    There's nothing wrong with saying "yes, I like the look of a docked tail".
    Again, remember that I'm pro-choice on the issue and own a dog that is docked. But aside from that, I have also owned dogs with tails and tons of people own dogs with tails that have NEVER had a problem with them.
    I could hurt my little toe if I bang it off the leg of the couch, but I'm not going to chop it off because of the possibility that that may or may not happen!

    Now, if we are done with the attacks and comments such as "it's likely you wont since your mind is already made up" (which I can tell you know so much about me from the information that you've gathered from my total of, what, 10 posts at the most? can we go back to a civilized conversation.
    That having been said, I appologize if you took that post that yours was a response to as an attack, I was simply stating an opinion.

    PS: thanks for the info on the Bandog.
  9. True_Pits

    True_Pits New Member

    I dont think Sara is attacking you, maybe it seems like it, but she's saying what she believes. Since you said You dont buy it, then it seems you had your mind made up. Whether you buy it or not its the truth, you can believe it or not. Some dogs may have been docked because of taxation, but that doesn't mean that docking/cropping isn't done to protect working dogs. It seems you guys are going around and around saying the same thing. To stick to breed standards is a reason. But if they aren't used for working purposes then whats the point. Is basically what you said, which makes sense. You seem kind of fighting on the issue by then stating.

    So these were all working dogs? I doubt this, I've owned lots of dogs with tails too and they were fine, with the exception of one with happy tail, which is often a cause for removal as an adult. But I'm not going to dock my dogs tails because they might have happy tail or might get hurt. Working dogs is a totally different thing, its not a could, its a probably will soon or later.

    Sorry but that is the reality of working dogs. Sometimes it can get pretty horrible and painful for the dog when it wasn't done and is now injured.
  10. spencerpits

    spencerpits New Member

    I have also read somewhere that many, many years ago people were taxed for pets, and the tail docking was an indicator of a working dog. But that's a moot point, as I don't think anywhere taxes for pets now. Some people dock because they like the look of it, some to hold to a breed standard, and believe it or not, many people dock the tails of their working dogs to prevent injury later on down the road. Chopping off digits and limbs is just a little bit different than docking a tail.
  11. BXRchicProPit

    BXRchicProPit New Member

    The working dog reason is a valid point and I never was arguing that (if the dog actual IS a working dog and actually WORKS). I'm not saying that the ONLY reason why people had dogs with docked tails was for avoidance of taxation. It was ONE of the original reasons. There are many "original" reasons depending on the dog and whats its job was.
    May it be taxation, avoiding injury, or for use as a "Handle".

    Regarding this specific dog (the Boxer/Dobe), I'm a skeptic and I find it highly difficult to believe that this dog was bred with an absolute purpose in mind. I find it very difficult to believe that this litter was well planned or well thought out. It was either accidental or due to a BYB or someone who thought they'd produce some cool looking dogs and make some cash at it. With all of the BYBs and puppy mills out there, you have to wonder... (at least I do)
  12. Sara

    Sara New Member

    I wasn't attacking you...and yes you do seem to have your mind made up.

    Even a BYB may have bred a cross with the intention of creating a "working" dog... Hence would have reason to dock tails... Probably the tail of the mix you specify was docked just because...it's very likely and happens often...

    To stick to a breed standard IMO is a good reason to dock a "working" breed...BECAUSE in my opinion...if the dog is "to standard" he should be working or have the opportunity to work... I don't show any of my dogs and NOT work any of them... They will all work in one capacity or another if they are shown and will continue adding to the breed etc... I feel that all show dogs should follow this principle, specifically show dogs...

    The reasons we crop and dock are many and as you've stated we have a right to those opinions...but to say THAT and then say at the same time that you do not "buy" the "working dog they might get hurt" reason is fairly accusatory etc... I have and will breed working dogs...they have docked tails and they will ALWAYS have docked tails as they are a WORKING breed...etc... IF they work they CAN and most likely WILL become injured in their line of work (livestock and guard duties)...they will also ALL have ALL their dewclaws removed as well... I have Two Pit Bulls that don't "work" and they have their tails, ears AND dewclaws they were born with... COULD they injure these things...YES the likelihood though is small... EVEN to injure their dewclaws is a minute likelihood... I beleive that unless the dog MAY end up or Likely end up with injury to his/her tails, ears, dewclaws...remove them... IF NOT...leave them...

    Same opinion as what you STATED yours to be except that if you don't buy one reason or another...then how can you say you beleive in the choice etc...?

    No one is trying to argue with you...you just stated one thing and then made another statement that puts those of us who have and use dogs for work on the defensive by NOT "buying" it as some kind of a dilusional deviation from "reality"... NOT exactly a non-attacking type statement being made by yourself...

    Bigons will be bigons and you get my point and I get yours... Please try in the future to respect the "reality" of other people's lives and other dog's line of work...BEFORE you accuse a group of people of "deviating from {that}reality"... The Reality with my breed is that they work closely with cows...angry cows and bulls that can't be managed by the smaller herders and humans...cows that are ferral etc... A dog's tail in this instance can become a HUGE hindurance and a problem for them should it get injured from a stray hoof etc... AND lets also put into perspective that my breed also incounters HUMANS and MONKEYS who WILL and CAN grab a hold of a tail and injure said dog or said dog's tail... HENCE the docking of the tail is in the animal's best interrest...THAT is the REALITY of where my breed comes from and what my breed's job is.... REALITY...not myth.
  13. BXRchicProPit

    BXRchicProPit New Member

    agreed, sorry if I came off harshly that was not my intention.
    We are having misunderstanding over misunderstanding.
    I agree with docking whether it be for working dogs, handles and the like.
    I'm not against docking nor did I intend to offend you for breeding/owning (whatever the case may be) working dogs with docked tails.
    Not my intention.
    I agree with all of those reasons!

    By-gones are By-gones; I'm sorry that our first encounter was one of "ill refute" so to speak; and I'm sorry that we got started out on the wrong foot and I'm sorry that I may have offended you or others.
    Sometimes, as in my post, its hard to interpret intentions and meaings; I'm probably just bad at articulating what I was trying to say up there.
    Starting over, and on a new topic... <sigh>
    The person that posted the original post here still hasn't had much feed back on "different breeds".


    Every look into hounds?
    A friend of mine has a bloodhound, very cool dog. He's very laid back, he's a go-anywhere dog (according to her and her boyfriend), and a generally great "pet".
    His only problem is allergies, too.

    About dog-dog aggression, I've been taking my Boxer to training classes since she was a puppy and the trainer that we had said that dog-dog aggression comes from a lack of early (as in, early as possible after removed from siblings) puppy socialization (and OFTEN). I don't know if thats true or not, but just food for thought. :?:
    Also may have been her way of selling me on more dog-classes. :wink:
  14. MaxKellyAST

    MaxKellyAST New Member

    I understand the heart of this statement however not all show dogs are working breeds. It can be argued but including the AST. In the AKC working dogs have their own class. It doesnt mean that they cant or shouldnt have an alteration that further enhances their look. If im understanding you right sara.

    I also understand about the above mentioned dog. Without knowing the exact senario of the animal, It would seem silly to go to the trouble of altering a mut, because thats what it is without all of the fancy names and word game coverups, only to have it end up unwanted in a shelter somewhere.

    There are plenty (likely too many) breeds/mixed muts currently in exsistence to perform any task that a human could possibly have without anyone trying to make a new/diluted self serving version of an experimental dog, who only later ends up where said dog currently is.
  15. Sara

    Sara New Member

    To discuss mixed breed dogs in this capacity would require an entire new subject based on this ideal... If you're attacking "bandogs" I suggest you read up more about the specific use of them and why people cross them and how people are doing it in a manner that is responsible and usefull...

    Working dogs that are also in the show ring is what the context was that I was speaking about when I mentioned that if a working dog is also a show dog and vice versa the dog (even if strictly showing) should be cropped if it's perscribed for a usefull reason per the standard etc... That's my take on it... There is no reason for fluffy the lap dog to be docked or cropped IMO... Sporting and other working dogs have reasons that they are altered in one way or another and the reasons are legitimate.... that was my only point in the whole thread there... ALSO IMO the Poodle should still be considered a sporting breed....so their docked and specially groomed selves would, in the show ring, have merit...rather than "only" in the feild... I've never understood why they are classified as "non sporting" myself...but again that's a whole different subject to broach...

    Like I said if you want to discuss the mixing of breeds in the context and discussion you seem to have started I think you should start a new thread... This docking deal diverged far enough off track...
  16. True_Pits

    True_Pits New Member

    Its true and not true. It can be true, lack of socialization can make a dog dog aggressive or people aggressive, scared of things, ect. Dogs require socialization. But a naturally dog aggressive dog will be naturally dog aggressive, socialization them (early on or not) won't change them. Socialization my Dobie didn't make her less protective, having her around other small animals/dogs since she was a pup didn't make her have less prey drive/small animal "aggressive", you can't simply socialize out these instincts. Maybe thats just what she believes and it depends on what context she was saying it in.
  17. MaxKellyAST

    MaxKellyAST New Member

    Sara- I didnt want to discuss mixed breed dogs exactly, this post has evolved slightly as things do. Im sorry if I seem like im attacking but I was speaking of the aboved mentioned dog and the like. You and I both know the finer points of what separates other breeders of working dogs and particularly with regards to the ones developing dogs and registries at the same time. Most recently the American Bulldog came from these humble comeupins. I have actually read a great deal about all kinds of dogs including those in the early stages of their independent registries, you not knowing that, it seems surprising that an educated and responsible dog owner such as yourself, would be reduced to being so defensive.
    Im sorry if it is a sore spot for you and no im not going to start a new thread, there is plenty of info about muts, working dogs, bandogs, sporting dogs and the like that people can find. Maybe I misunderstand your being defensive as you misunderstood me as attacking.

    Lots of people find that it takes a great deal of fortitude for a dog to show and it is working in and of itself, though they dont like to shoot birds they love birddogs who come from great stock of purebred bird dogs. Do these dogs deserve any less merit because they dont follow it up with formal birddog training? Just a question... I think its a really great thing to do.
  18. Sara

    Sara New Member

    I wasn't truly sure if you were talking about the boxerxddb mentioned above my post or if you were talking about ALL mixed breed dogs... Your post did sound like you were taking a jab at all of them and possibly specifically at Bandogs... I've never owned a bandog and don't plan on doing any breeding of that sort as the "need" for this type of dog is just minimal and the breeders out there that do it are better than I would be... I was just wanting to make sure that there are mutts and there are "bandogs"...I mentioned the same thing you did about the mutt in question and that it COULD have been bred for in the VEIN of a bandog by a BYB who wanted to THINK he was breeding a Bandog but was not etc... No big deal...I didn't think I was being that defensive...I just wanted to make a statement that IF your post was an attack yadda yadda...

    Things online get so mixed up sometimes...LOL

    As for dogs that come from breedings of working dog I don't know that anyone here beleives that said dogs HAVE to work to be valueable... My only point in mentioning working and showing dogs is that one shouldn't breed working dogs without doing BOTH with them to prove they are the best rep. of the breed etc.... I have no feelings whatsoever in the direction that a working dog bred to work that is culled or sold as a pet has any less value as the BEST working dog out there... As long as pet is happy and family is happy and the dog and family work out etc... it's probably more important for pets than working dogs... Make sense??? I'm pretty sure the rest of the board feels that way... I have two pets myself and would gladly sell any puppies I produce that wouldn't be good working dogs or can't go to working homes to a pet home etc... A home no matter what is better that no home at all...etc...
  19. BronxthePit

    BronxthePit New Member

    WOW! you dont read a message board for a couple weeks and stuff just blows up with responses lol.

    I dont have time right now to read all of em. But from one I fully read. I have Boxer Pit mix.....cutest thing in the world. I have to scan her baby picutres..she was so Fat and cuddly, wrinkles galore..but now shes all boxer lean/muscular. I would never dock her tail. she'd look so wierd!!! I think only certain breeds look right, and thats maybe because we've been brainwashed to think that. That a doberman is ugly unless the tail is docked..same with rotts...dunno ...i've seen em and dang they sure are wierd lookin!!!
  20. Samsintentions

    Samsintentions New Member

    Getting back on the subject of docking tails, Most people now-a-days dock for cosmetic reasons. Most of the time for the wrong reasons. Take my breed for instance ACD's are supposed to have their tails. But how many of them do you see that are docked? Alot!!! They use their tails as rutters for working/herding perposes. Remove that tail, and you've got a clumbsy dog on your hands.....

    I personally like tails, but on certain breeds such as the Boxer, Dobe, Rott I think the docked tail really complements the dogs. Ear cropping is also another cosmetic "feature" and I use the term lightly..... I think some dogs look awsome with it, and others look horrible.

    As long as it is done properly, and under certifeied veterinanrian care, I don't see the problem with it.....

    Now if its an injury problem, which I personally know several pit bulls that wag their tails sooo hard they bang them up and the wounds won't heal. THen I can see the reason for docking the tail. But if its not a breed standard, I can't justify it.

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