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Fecal eating problem at extreme - on brink of breakdown!

Discussion in 'Dogs - all breeds / types' started by casper, Jan 28, 2005.

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  1. casper

    casper New Member

    What amounts to enough time? Who are you to tell me that I'm not giving my dog enough attention when you don't know how much time I devote to them?

    I bought a second dog because RELATIVE to the amount of time that I used to spend with my first dog, it has decreased. That doesn't mean that I spend NO TIME WITH HIM!

    Your assumption that I don't give them any attention is false. WHY DO YOU ASSUME THAT?! I walk them a good hour a day and do play with them.

    You really read too much into my statements.

    Because I'm afraid my dog is going to get fat, you think they get no exercise. Why don't you read the fact that I do walk them EVERYDAY!?

    Why do you focus on the negative? I've stated over and over that MOST DAYS I'M GONE 5-6 hrs AND SO HE'S NOT IN PAIN. Unlike you, I have a life and there are odd days that I'm gone for a while. But why don't you read into the fact that it's INFREQUENT!?

    I also give my second dog lots of attention. My second dog sits on my lap as I study and stuff. Why do you assume I don't!? Because he eats his poo? If I'm gone for 1/2 an hr and he poos, he'll eat it! It has nothing to do with the fact that I'm gone for a long or short period. Its the fact that I'm not present, PERIOD.

    If both of my dogs were raging out and tearing up my apartment, then I'd agree with you that they're bored to death. However, my only problem is that my little guy eats his poo when I'm not there. And from this problem, you've told me that I'm a bad owner.

    Maybe you need to step back before you criticize people. I'd hate to be your kids if you pick up on all the negative and forget the positive. I feel bad for YOUR dogs.
     
  2. casper

    casper New Member

    No, haven't gone to the vet yet. I'm waiting till I need to go again in a month to save on the $50 examination fee.
     
  3. lil96

    lil96 New Member

    wow casper, you are such a nice person, proven by your language, now I will no longer respond to anything you say,
    Let them eat poo!
     
  4. casper

    casper New Member

    My apologies. I've realized what the problem is.

    You see, I'm an academic. I'm surrounded by intelligent academics all the time at school. These are the people that I interact with in life.

    I forget that the internet is a public medium.

    I forget that there are people who are stupid and uneducated and that I may interact with them on the internet.

    My apologies. I will try to dumb things down to your level so that you don't make the many, many assumptions and inferences that you make.
     
  5. Jamiya

    Jamiya New Member

    Congratulations. I got straight A's through high school. I was accepted to every college I applied to, including Johns Hopkins and MIT. I attended Northwestern University where I earned a B.S. in Biomedical Engineering in 3 years with a 3.96 GPA. La-dee-da. :roll:

    If you stop to think, since this is a written medium, we can only go on what you have told us and make some assumptions. If those assumptions are incorrect you should correct them (politely), but realize that someone who says they are gone 10 hours a day sounds like they aren't home very much. I can only imagine if I were in law school that I would be pretty tired at the end of the day.

    Now, the reason your dog only eats poo when you are gone is out of boredom and/or separation anxiety. A dog can get bored even if you are only gone for 30 minutes. Dogs do like to play with each other, but most of them like people even more. My two dogs play and wrestle and chew on their bones and play with toys WHEN I AM HOME. When I am NOT home, they lie around and wait for me to get home (or make mischief). I know this for a fact because when my kids are off school, the dogs sleep all day until I get home. They never ask to go outside and if the door is opened for them, they don't move. Then when I get home they act like hyper, attention-starved doggies who haven't seen a person all day. I think it's safe to say they are heavily bonded to me.

    Sometimes when I am gone (most of the time lately), they are destructive. I have noticed that this is sometimes linked with how much exercise and attention they have had from me recently, but not always. And it also seems to follow the seasons to an extent - springtime is a crazy time, at least for my dogs.

    When dogs act out ONLY when you are not home, this is separation anxiety or boredom. Most likely with your dog it is separation anxiety. You can do a search on this forum for separation anxiety because several people have had problems with it and found good solutions. If you can't find the posts, ask and I am sure they will re-post. You might try starting a new thread with "separation anxiety" in the subject so that people with the most experience with it are more likely to read and reply.

    Something else you could try if you don't do this already is to move your walk to the morning. POSSIBLY if you tire them out BEFORE you leave for work/school, they might behave better while you are gone. However, if it is truly separation anxiety this may not work. No way to tell unless you try it.

    Beyond that, the only solution I can offer you is what everyone else said - crate the dog and find someone to let her out the couple days a week you are gone too long. When that is going well, like after a month or two, try increasing freedom gradually - like at first confine her to a small bathroom or laundry room, then gradually increase the amount of space she has if it goes well. But take a LOT of time at each step and if there is even ONE accident, go back to the last successful step. Sometimes dogs with TOO MUCH room to roam misbehave. Someone else here has a dog like that. When she had the run of the house she was very destructive, but confined to the basement she is fine. So that's something else you can try.

    I understand about the high value treats. I can't leave them for my dogs either, because I don't want them to fight over them. And I also got a second dog partially to entertain the first, so you are not alone in that and it CAN work very well.

    Sometimes these problems take some creative problem-solving and sacrifices on the part of the human in a dog's life. We part with money or time or convenience because there is no other choice for our furry friends. Look over the various solutions offered to you again with an open mind and use your intelligent brain to come up with a way to adapt them to make them fit your situation.

    And one last thing. You say your vet recommended the food you are feeding? Big red light, there. Is it Science Diet or something similar? I was surprised to find out that vets have very little training in nutrition in vet school. Unless your vet is one of the rare exceptions, he/she only knows what he was taught most likely by representatives of major dog food companies. There are many foods that are MUCH better than anything you can find in grocery stores or traditional pet stores. From the big chains, the only foods I would ever consider feeding are Natural Balance at PetCo or Blue Buffalo at PetsMart. Something from a specialty shop, like Innova (expensive) or Canidae (doesn't cost any more than Science Diet), is a very good choice. Even better would be pre-packaged raw food. And best of all is REAL raw food - bones and raw meat - which would decrease the amount, smell, and squishiness of your dog's feces and thereby aid in solving your problem. Nala as a puppy was pooping huge, squishy, nasty piles of poop 4-5 times a day when she was on kibble. As a raw-fed adult weighing around 50 pounds, she poops once or twice a day - small, firm, mostly odorless stool that dries up and turns to dust within a day. Big, squishy, smelly stools are a sign that most of what is going into your dog is coming right back out again. Smaller feces means that the dog is gaining more nutrition from their food. And raw is not hard to feed and can be very economical and efficient. If you want more info, do a search or ask and I can post some stuff.
     
  6. Jas

    Jas New Member

    Casper that is quite enough. You comment and language is inappropriate for this forum.

    The fact that one needs to make such a statement about their intelligence and belittle others certainly demonstrates the level of intellect.

    Do you want a solution? PREVENTION. Pick up poop immediately. NO POOP = NO SNACKING & NO MESS. Crate the dog while you are away. If you're not able to be there to let the dogs out it is your responsibility to find someone who is or train the dog to use a litter box. Surely there are family, friends or a neighbor who can stop by for a few minutes to help you out on the days you are gone for longer than 5-6 hours. It doesn't cost much to pay someone to stop by once or twice a week for a few minutes.

    Second dog not as trainable? That is an excuse. A [healthy] well trained, well behaved dog is the product of the time, consistency and effort put into that dog. You get what you deserve if any of this is absent.
     
  7. charmedagain

    charmedagain New Member

    Casper that was quite rude people on here are well educated people and we are people that have had pets for many years have dealt with all the situations that arise from owning pets aswell.

    Also to the comment of people being dumb let me tell you i have Alevels aswell as 14GCSE i also have training in veterinary medicine aswell as animal care and welfare i would not say i am the brightest person on the boards but one thing i can say is i am not the dumbest i have yet to come across a member that gives stupid or dumb advice.

    The advice given by members on these boards are as correct and as informative as possible.
    So if you can not be bothered to get someone in to let your dogs out to go to the toilet then thats your problem..

    Also you state that he is crated while your out and while you sleep so how can he eat the poop and get it all over yes they can eat it but you have to think would you like to be in a crated surrounded by poop while your owner was out If he is confined to a crate.
    Please before you call people dumb read your posts and see how dumb you look.

    I am going to say and some people may agree or disagree but i think you just want a quick fix from someone so that yoiu do not have to do any real work with this dog well sorry it takes time and patience to train any animal and if your not willing to put the time in what do you expect..

    As for dogs growing out of eating faeces this is not completely true as if there diet is wrong or they are bored they are going to do it your lucky he only does that as most dogs when bored actually chew up furniture and shoes and things.

    So if you want the perfect dog train him to be.
    The things you have to look at before getting pets is...

    How much time will they be left alone.
    How long will they have to wait before someone comes home to let them goto the toilet.
    Can you spend enough time walking, training,caring for these animals.
    How much is enough excersise.
    Do i know enough about there diet.
    Can i handle accidents in te house.

    Please do not try to belittle people on these boards as they have years of learning and years of pet ownership.

    Sometimes its hard to house train puppies but most of the time its easy all my puppies are house broken before they goto there new homes but once in new surroundings they do have accidents since they do not know where to go to the toilet in there new home but will patience and dedication they soon learn where to go..

    If i am going to be out most of the day either a family member or neighbour comes and let my dogs out and play with them for a few minutes and i have large breed dogs..
    Also you not going to take him to a vet until next month to save you money well sorry if the pet needs the vet you don't worry about the money my dogs are regulary checked over by the vets due to being breeding dogs but i would never say i will take them next month to save me some money for the examination fee this is irrisponsible of the pet owner.
    Mike
     
  8. casper

    casper New Member

    A fabulous example of someone who doesn't read posts. Thanks Mike. If you can show me the post where I said he's crated while I'm gone, I'd appreciate it.

    I won't make a comment on who's dumb.

    ..................

    With regards to the other posts - why don't you tell people to not draw negative inferences for no reason?

    It's FINE to make an assumption. It's A WHOLE OTHER THING to call me a bad owner. THAT is a personal attack and I won't stand for it. Why do I have to tolerate that!? Please, do tell.

    Please also note that I ignored the first couple of posts that criticized me. then it kept coming. Then I finally said something.

    Why is it OK for people to continue calling me a bad owner when I've already tried to defend myself - NICELY the first time around? Plz.



    And yes, I'm looking for a quick fix b/c it's a nasty problem. who wouldn't in this case? it's not like I'm gonna give him up if it doesn't work immediately. Also note that I've tried many things before I asked for help again.

    Asking for help does not mean - please tell me I'm a horrible owner.

    Why don't you address the issue at hand? You told me he needs more attention - OK. You told me to buy more toys - OK. You need NOT go and tell me that I'm irresponsible, bad owner, too busy etc etc. You don't know me so don't go there.

    (p.s. by "you" i'm referring to the ppl in general and no one specific, in case you didn't know)
     
  9. casper

    casper New Member

    Jamiya,

    Thank-you. I really appreciate your post and will look into the possibility of separation anxiety.

    I kinda alway thought he might have it b/c he's never been alone before. He's always with my big dog, Bishop. That's why I carry him when I walk Bishop - just in case he has it so he won't bark and whine.

    I never knew it might result in a dog eating their fecal.

    Thanks again.
     
  10. casper

    casper New Member

    Oh yes, I meant to address your comment about dog food:

    Yes, science diet. Currently Casper is on the puppy one and I'm going to switch to adult soon so it's a perfect time to switch brand if need be.

    Never heard of these brands. Not sure if they have it here. How do you tell if they're good?

    Raw food is a bit too strange for me... won't the dog become agressive and want to hunt? If I switch to raw food, it would have to be for both dogs b/c Bishop would get to be really jealous. I really like the idea that the feces come out smaller though. I'll do a search.
     
  11. casper

    casper New Member

    It's not an excuse - again an assumption for no reason.

    For me to potty train Bishop - it took a month. I remember clearly as I was very pleased with the result.

    For Casper - I walked him much more frequently b/c I knew had a smaller bladder. I walked him every 2 hrs (waking hrs) for two-three months before he understood what he's supposed to do.

    Is that not evidence that he's harder to train?! Why do you say I'm making excuses then?
     
  12. Jas

    Jas New Member

    First of all people are trying to help YOU. Perhaps you could show some appreciation for the suggestions instead of beating everyone down. The only personal attacking going on is the name calling and cursing coming from you some of which has been edited I see. Enough is enough.

    I have made no assumptions. The big picture is all very clear to me.

    Stating that one dog is not as trainable IS an excuse. Excuses negate responsibility. Certainly not all dogs learn at the same pace but a healthy dog is trainable. Your excuses are the only thing that has prevented you from succeeding. Small dogs are capable of holding it overnight for 6-8+ hours so there is no excuse there.

    I think its safe to say this topic has been more than covered. Perhaps the suggestions and good information here will help someone else.

    Thanks everyone for your input.
    :y_the_best:
     
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