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Here we go again...

Discussion in 'Dogs - Pit bull breeds specific' started by BronxthePit, Oct 11, 2004.

  1. BronxthePit

    BronxthePit New Member


    Eliza. I dont think anyone was saying that everydog is going to attack a child when left alone. I think we're more so saying that theres always a chance that it could, and why risk it.

    great point Kelly. My Bit** did not want anyone to bother her besides me, when she was in heat. Now she is a great dog and trained, but in heat (just like real women :lol: :mrgreen: ), she gets cranky and moody. I think why bigger dogs dont like children is because the kids are around their hieght. I think its a dominance thing. What makes it worse are those kids that torment the dog . I have a cousin whos 5, who tormented and plauged my b**** when she was a puppy...did not see her for months , and now whenver he comes around she makes it very clear that she does not like him, he even still taunts her. The parents look at me like its her fault..or that shes not prop trained. i tell em 'NO! correct your CHILD and teach him how to respect dogs'. She LOVES every other kid except him, just a concidence?? i dont think so.
  2. MaxKellyAST

    MaxKellyAST New Member

    I havent taken offense SP im just stating my opinion. But by your logic I could call you fat and ugly and because you dont think you are you shouldnt take offense. Doesnt really add up.

    I just thought I would give the other side of the coin. How do you know they act different when they are together and you are not around, if you have never left them alone?

    If its a possibility when you are not then it is a possibility if you are there and IMO you should kill the currs you fear.

    I respect you opinion, I didnt mean the last sentence I wrote. I understand the logic you use. I hope ive made my point.
  3. goob

    goob New Member

    My aunt's first child was killed at age 3 months when she and her husband (then BF) left him napping in his swing in the next room (with their door cracked and a baby monitor on) with their two old dogs out. The dogs, neither pit bulls, who had never shown aggression to the baby, somehow tipped his swing over and he was killed.

    Granted, a young baby is different from a 4 or 5 year old, or even from a toddler, but the chance of incident is still there, and WHY would you chance a life when you could just take a few precautions and not have to worry about it? Kids do things to dogs, no matter how well they've been taught to respect them, or how well they behave normally. Likewise, dogs are animals, and sometimes they do things people can't understand and would never have thought they would. Dogs, especially APBTs are often expected (and don't get me wrong, I don't think they should snap at kids for bothering them) to tolerate any and everything a person can throw at them without fail, but the fact is that if for whatever reason a dog (especially a large dog) decides not to, they have the potential to hurt or kill a small child within minutes.
  4. spencerpits

    spencerpits New Member

    You could say that to me, but I wouldn't take offense, because I am neither fat nor ugly. I have no insecurities in either area, just as I don't in my responsibility of my dogs or son. So, I neither take offense to challenges, nor do I feel a need to defend myself. But I do see your point. I hope you see mine.

    Actually, my response was speaking of my dogs and my son seperately, as I can assure you that they have never been left alone. I have had reports of both, generally from my husband, and how they have acted when I'm not around. My son does tend to behave about the same for most adults as he does for me, but my dogs do not. They listen fairly well to my husband, but with anyone else, all they want to do is play. And I can only imagine how my son would behave if he knew he was unsupervised for anything more than a few minutes. Don't get me wrong, he's not a bad kid, but he is a kid, not quite 5 at that.

    It is always a possibility with any animal, and I do not fear them; again, I'm just not willing to risk my son's life to try to prove a point. And, yes, it's a possibility when I'm there. But as I said both my son and my dogs behave differently when I am around. Plus, I feel that I would certainly be more likely to notice any ill signs from my dog well before my son would. I would also be there to correct/stop my son from provoking the dog. And, if worse came to worse, I am certainly willing to put myself between my dog(s) and my son to protect his life. And I think I'd have a little bit of a better chance at fighting/getting away from them than he would alone. Does this mean I am afraid of them? Not at all! Take a look at some of the pics of my son and my dogs. Do I think they will turn on me, my son, or any other human? Absolutely not! But again, they are animals, and therefor, I won't leave my son alone with them, period.

    I'm glad you respect my opinion, and I respect yours. I do not agree with it, and only wish that you don't ever prove me right.
  5. spencerpits

    spencerpits New Member

    It's not that a child is more prone to getting attacked, but who do you think is more likely to survive an attack -an adult or a child? Most fatalities are either children or seniors, neither of which are fast or strong enough to survive.

    Do you deny that your dogs could hurt your son? I don't deny that I have animals that I believe could hurt my son. What I don't believe is that they would hurt him.
  6. BronxthePit

    BronxthePit New Member

    what the heck is Currs? :)
  7. MaxKellyAST

    MaxKellyAST New Member

    Well, where im from a dog is a "Cur" pronounced "KER" if it bites people.
    There is also a breed of dog with this in its name. A BlackMouth Cur

    I dont equate one with the other.
  8. True_Pits

    True_Pits New Member

    That doesn't make sense to me. Any dog can hurt a child and any medium to large breed could severely hurt a child, which is something I know and believe. I'm not going to put my dog down for this or believe in BSL, but its s simple fact. Dogs are strong and have teeth, they can hurt or kill a child. I don't believe mine would, they don't have the mentality for this, but physically they could. The bad thing is that most owners don't believe their dogs can or would hurt their children, these are owners who don't know their dogs well or pay attention to warning signs. They don't control their kids or dogs. If I had a dog I thought would then I'd put it down, they don't even know that their dog is dangerous, they can't read the signs, then it too late once it attacks their child.

    A cur is a dog who quits in combat. When the dog is rolled or game tested if it quits its considered a cur. Some old timers believed that all man biters were curs, but thats not always true. A man biter can be just as game as a sound dog, either way a man biter should always be culled, no matter how game it is. But the act of biting doesn't make it a cur.
  9. MaxKellyAST

    MaxKellyAST New Member

    You say that doesnt make sense to you but then you later concur with it.
    Im not saying my dogs dont have the physical capacity to hurt me or my child because that would be silly. I guess I should have clarified "could" between the physical ability to and the desire. You cleared up the cur thing nicely.

    I have also hear stories of mothers leaving their babies with their fathers only to come home and find out the father shook the baby to death because it wouldnt stop crying. They would have sworn the father would not have dont that before. More babies are injured or killed every year from shaking than dog attacks. We are animals as well and dogs even though not erect can reason, feel complex emotion, are self aware, and can understand consequence. I agree with what you say about some people not knowing their dogs or the warning signs. They are often the same people who breed on accident or without discretion, pick their dogs up from god knows who and know nothing of their dogs lineage. I would always give the advice to other people not to leave their dogs and children alone, I dont know what they do and dont do.

    It seems through proper breeding stock, maint., proper raising of dogs and children alike some are afforded different luxuries than others. Or some are paralized by rumors and media.
  10. True_Pits

    True_Pits New Member

    I was left alone with dogs all the time. Including pits. I'm sure most kids were. Its hard for me to say never leave a child unsupervised with any dog, because I was. But I do the same and tell most people not to leave their young child alone with their dogs, because you never know and they don't know all that much about their dogs or dog behavior in general.
  11. Sara

    Sara New Member

    Hi guys...

    Dogs are animals... that's the first thing everyone here needs to remember... Wether a dog kills a kid by tipping over a swing or by ripping out it's voice box...it can happen...no matter what... For one in a pack puppies are immune to "rank" fights beyond between one another...but adolecent wolves...they are not... if your dog views your 5 year old as an adolecent then he's at risk of being involved in a rank fight or attack... If I had a 5 year old I'd make sure I was around so that if my dog BEGAN to show rank above my 5 year old at any time I could put him in his place and teach my child to do so... if the dog didn't do it...then maybe I'd be more likely to leave the room by the time my kid was 7...this whole age thing is all relative...the whole conversation is relative...

    Point is that dogs are animals and if you don't feel like taking the chance of leaving the kids with the dogs then why should the dog pay for that with his life???

    I don't understand how people can't respect other people's veiw of it when it is in this direction. MOST people in arguements like this who feel like it's irresponsible aren't trying to belittle the people who think it should be okay...basically two sides are trying to explain why they do one thing and not another...and why they feel one way and not another... simple fact is dogs are animals... Those of you who don't feel that they should be feered even for a moment need to re-think some things...

    Horses...I'm buying a horse...I've had horses my whole life...spent tons of time alone with my horses...as a child... but I was only allowed to do that after I could prove to my parents that I could act responsibly around them... I could have been killed in a matter of seconds by a horse...even now I could be... Should I put my horse down because he's dangerous??? Should I not own a horse because I respect their power??? No one says that...no one mentions that and no one advocates that (PETA but they're nutts anyway)... So why this issue with dogs... To many families, having horses is like having dogs...they're all animals and they need to be respected as such... to expect that a dog is something that shouldn't be respected or somewhat feered is just dilusional and more unhealthy than to be OVERLY cautious or just plain cautious of things... Parents have the right to do what they will with their kids... Some poeple I'm sure would gasp in horror at my jumping my pony over hay bales unsupervised in a field all alone at the age of six...others would say good for my mom for letting me have that experience... but in any case if I'd been kicked in the head by my horse...I doubt many people would point the finger at my parents for owning the horse or for being irresponsible with the horse... NOR would they point the finger at the horse...for acting in a "vicious" manner...

    WHY are dogs viewed in such a different manner...each one of these animals has been domesticated for an equal ammount of time... What's the diff??? The main point is that they are animals...and should be respected and veiwed as such...

    These arguements always get on my nerves...for this very reason....I always end up having to get that off my chest...it annoys me that people think that if I feel I need to be cautious with my dog etc...that I'm being unreasonable...those same people wouldn't bat an eye if I told them that I never walk behind my horse in case it will kick and kill me... So...what's the issue again?
  12. MaxKellyAST

    MaxKellyAST New Member

    Well Im not going to go into the finer points of the difference between horses and dogs. You make a good summary and I respect others opinions and positions on this subject. Like you said every situation is relative.
  13. MaxKellyAST

    MaxKellyAST New Member

    PS.... I really like the new look of your website Sara!
  14. Sara

    Sara New Member

    Point was they're animals and one is no more unpredictable than the other and to view dogs as anything other than JUST an animals is dangerous...wether it's to veiw them as vicious creatures aimed at maiming and killing or as little furry people...it's not realistic and it's dangerous...either way... Sooo...that said...don't compare the two in any other sense...

    Thanks for the comment about the website... I figured no one payed attention...LOL... It's nice to know people visit from time to time!

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