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Ignorent neighbors (i cant believe the nerve of some people)

Discussion in 'Dogs - Pit bull breeds specific' started by pcolachic, Apr 20, 2005.

  1. pcolachic

    pcolachic New Member

    :roll: like i said ignorent people
    hey have you guys seen that flash video it's on
    www.PitbullProblem.tk
    i always show it to people when they start talking bad about pitbulls
    shuts them up real quick
     
  2. blueshish

    blueshish New Member

    That is really hard to watch. I am going to send it to my mother and sister. Maybe they will take a minute and think.
     
  3. Shineillusion

    Shineillusion New Member

    I'm not a huge supporter of the MHS, but they have legitimate reasons for what they do. The largest one being liability. And it's not the fault of the MHS or any other organization if Animal Planet fails to give a thorough explaination of that in their narrow minded, simplistic versions of reality television shows that are meant to entertain, not educate. The MHS doesn't write that copy.

    I know of several no-kill shelters who will no longer accept several breeds, including pit bulls, simply because they can't afford the liability insurance if they continue to do so. We must face the fact that there are people in this world who are looking for a fast buck. And the easiest way they can think of to get it is to sue. It's a simple situation, and I'm actually amazed it's not more of a problem. Adopt a pit bull, Dobe, Rottie, etc, get it to bite you or a family member, and sue the rescue or humane society for releasing an unstable dog to an unsuspecting family. If you can't get the dog to bite you, get some other dog to bite you and claim it was the one you adopted.

    Shelters need money if they are going to operate. If all their money is going to protect them from someone looking to cash in on a big law suit, there's nothing left to feed and house the dogs, cats, and other animals.

    I also know that a lot of shelters think they're doing a good job at screening applicants, asking for referrences and doing background checks. But honestly, it's not that difficult to falsify the paperwork or get your little girlfriend's grandfather to go get you a dog if you're willing to pay him a few bucks. Where there's a will, there's a way, as the saying goes. Especially if the way is paved with money.
     
  4. blueshish

    blueshish New Member

    As I stated before, thousands of pits,etc. are successfully adopted out each year by various organizations. As far as sueing for the sake of making a buck, your reasoning would stand for any animal adopted out be it cat, hamster, poodle or pit. These organizations have a limited liability form that you must sign when you adopt a pet. I know I did when we adopted Panther 6 years age. By the way he is a Australian Shepard /Black Lab. They also employ animal behaviorest to evaluate all animals before they are put up for adoption. The arguement of kill them all to save a buck does not hold water with me. Yes you can fake a I.D. but it is much easier to look in your local classified ads and pick up a pit for less than you will pay at the shelter.

    As far as the MHS on Animal Planet goes, they do have ample oppertunity to explain themselves. They go into long dialog about how big of a problem dog fighting is but they simply state that all pit bulls are put down after evaluation. Yes the shows are "reality tv" but they are also meant to educate on a limited scale. How many dog owners now periodically check their dogs collars where before they never thought twice? Things of that nature that we will never know about.

    My point is this. The kill them all attitude is wrong under all circumstances. There is absolutely no excuse for it. Compassion has no price tag attached.
     
  5. DeLaUK

    DeLaUK New Member

    Ill try and keep this short :? about 12 years, Cocker Mix, HBC brought into the hospital by a Good Sam. he yelped when he was picked up and 'accidently' caught the guy causing a puncture wound on the guys arm (this was according to the guy himself), the dog, once recovered at the hospital had to be turned over to Pasadena AC, a receptionist told the officer the dog had bitten the Good Sam....after he specifically asked her. I was told by the officer, 10 days quaratine becuase of the bite and no vax history on the dog then he would go up for adoption. Day 9 I call AC, I had a home for him, I was told he would be euthanized as he was a bite case. I would not have handed the dog over had I known this (and this happened also not that long ago with a Rott and 2 Pits with another AC dept....those dogs were euthanized in less than 3 days....NICE DOGS, the Rott was trained!!!) After threatening to go to the media based on the fact that AC lied to me they finally gave in a released him, in 8 years that dog NOT ONCE ever showed any signs of aggression......SO

    This is a fact, Ive personally assisted in at least 50 or so Pit Bulls and/or Pit mixes being adopted, including with follow up visits. Great results.

    I signed more paperwork for the Cockers release than I would to buy a house. I understand the liability situation and I dont blame them for not releasing agressive dogs, fact is there not all aggressive.

    Back yard breeders love that attitude!!!!

    It may be reality TV, its still TV, its edited, you never get the whole story,, I agree that they do a good job on education in certain areas and Ive seen a lot on info in there about dog fights and 'some' of whats involved...but to euthanize every Pit Bull is WRONG!!!!

    That said, they are all limited to space and funding. Personally I think there should be a law passed either restricting or at least having to have a license for breeding dogs. I doubt the responsible breeders would have a problem with this, the ones Ive talked to agree with it. There is a massive overpopulation of dogs which is why thousands are euthanized every day in the States. I found out recently that here in Germany, the local animal shelter closed down about 2 or 3 years ago, not to lack of funding....it was lack of dogs!!!!!
     
  6. pcolachic

    pcolachic New Member

    no matter how anyone trys to explain it to me there will never be any "good' excuse to kill one breed of dog the fact that their a
    "danger to the public" is simple oppinion and nothing more sounds
    like to me that the mhs workers need the be more edcuated on
    the pitbull terrier if thats what they really think, the aspca on
    animal planet didn't euthanize the pitbulls that came in their shelter
    I am disapointed with animal planet however anytime you see a
    pitbull on that channel it's on animal cops
    why no "thats my baby" or "pet star"
    for a channel dedicated to animals ALL animals they sure do a good job
    of discriminating against the pitbull
     
  7. blueshish

    blueshish New Member

    Let me clarify my statement

    It is easier to look in your local classified ads...
    I was illistrating that it is easier to get a dog for illigal purposes,I.E. fighting, by buying from backyard breeders than going through the adoption process.

    I couldn't agree more that breeders should be registered/licensed. Hopefully that would cut down on unwanted pets. My ASBT came from a breeder/friend. She only had puppies occasionaly and then only if she had at least 7 people who requested them. One of her buyers backed out, that is how I ended up with Blueshish. I used to breed Australian Cattle dogs some years ago and followed the same policy. My other Pit, Butler,came from the shelter and was a equally wonderful dog. It is proven that by selective breeding you can control unwanted traits in any animal thus setting a higher standard. [/quote][/url][/list][/code]
     
  8. goob

    goob New Member

    A few years ago (not too long after the Presa attack in SF), MSNBC did a special on "dangerous dog breeds", in which they reviewed several well publicized dog attacks, dog "experts" (which we all know, "expert" is a highly subjective term in any field), etc. One of their interviews was with one of the investigators at MHS, in which he managed to spew forth more myths and misinformation in 10 minutes than most people will ever do in their lifetimes. He was standing in front of a red APBT's kennel, and talking about how unpredictable the dog could be, and how he knew this was a dog that had "game". How did he know this, you ask? Well, he poked a collar through the kennel gate, and the dog grabbed it and tugged on it, growling and wagging it's tail like most of our dogs do while playing with us. Meanwhile, he was going on about how this showed the dog's gameness, and how the dog could be bred and his offspring sold for thousands of dollars because of this "gameness" it portrayed in tugging on a collar.

    More recently, I was watching (I go to bed late, and there's never much on TV, so sometimes I manage to get sucked into watching this stuff, even though I know it'll aggravate me :roll: ) a show on AP (I think it was houston animal cops) where they were reviewing some of their biggest animal confiscations. One of the cases was a fighting ring bust in which they took over 60 APBTs. Most of the dogs were (as commonly happens in these situations) wagging their tails, happy to have visitors in their yard, but of course, the ACOs dispelled that idea by explaining to viewers that these dogs were highly unpredictable and could become aggressive at any moment. Back at the truck, another ACO was explaining that APBTs are more dangerous than other dogs because (paraphrasing), "most dogs' jaw muscles only come up in here <indicating jaw area with his hands>, but pit bulls' jaw muscles go all the way to the top of their head <again indicating, this time around the top of his head>. Now, as someone who knows at least a little bit about canine physiology, I know enough to know that all dogs have roughly the same basic jaw structure, and I can say from experience that even my weiner dog has muscles that stand out on the top of her head when she's chewing on something, so it definitely is not a breed specific trait.

    I realize these people are playing to the crowd, but it disturbs me to no end to see people so blatantly ignorant about the animals they're entrusted to care for, and I wish there wasa program in place requiring that they educate themselves before going out and spreading false information to millions of other people.

    Honestly, the MHS pit bull euth. policy doesn't really bother me. IMO, it takes more knowledge of the breed and time (for checking references, etc) to do properly than most shelters have the staff for, and I'd rather see these dogs dead than placed improperly to make a headline or end up back in the same situation. I DO wish they would open up to breed rescue groups taking in select dogs for evaluation and to adopt out, since these groups (should, but that's another story) have the knowledge and resources to adopt them out properly.

    And I'd definitely prefer not to see APBTs on "that's my baby", seeing as the root of our problems is people indiscrimately pumping out puppies, and placing them in improperly screened homes, which is what the show portrays in most of its pet episodes. For our breed (and some others that are growwly overpopulated, with not enough decent homes available), they'd be more realistic to air a show depicting "the miracle of death", seeing as that's what tens of thousands of APBTs face in cities across the US every year. But, of course, that wouldn't attract many viewers, would it :shock:
     
  9. yogi

    yogi New Member

    pit bulls vs other breeds

    Maybe it is me but I have raised and been around multiple breeds for over 50 years and have not found one breed yet that cannot be taught to bite. The breed is not the reason for it's biting or aggression. Though to some degree I understand the SPCA and MHS they are in a position to do the breed a better rap if they were to openly explain what their criteria regarding rescues and adoptions is. They are on Animal Planet so common sense is you have a national audience, utilize it to teach instead of making the public form more opinions that are not truly warranted. If that was the case why do I not see Cocker Spaniels being put down. More Cockers are reported yearly than any other breed including Pit's, Rot's etc.
    Unfortunately what I have seen with the misconception of dog breeds is the same thing I view in human behavior, one gets a bad rap and we are left to dislike all of them instead of taking each on per basis. I have a pin that was to be put down. When I found out one in IMPS that I was interested in seeing for adoption and was told was available was put down at 3 years because he was biting I became infuriated. First I was lied to about the availability of the dog and then they didn't tell me the truth until I cornered the then regional manager. Needless to say by the time I was done she corraled me into evaluating future dogs to see if they could be brought into the organization for adoption. I took the next one in my self. Does he bite, yes and good reason. People bought him as a puppy and thru him in with 2 little children who overhandled him with no regards to what would happen. Hell even I would have biten to get anyone to leave me alone. In my case, he has not biten me. If anything he is extremely protective of me. Defensive biter who see's me as a rescuer. I do not over handle any of my 10 MinPins or 11 Manx cats. They come to me when they want attention and though with strangers they bark and get riled up, well in most cases that is typical of the MinPin Breed so you live with it. I will not condon MHS putting down a dog they rescued because it shows aggression when you try to take it's food dish away while it is eating and is coming thru near starvation. Especially when the dog has shown all signs of control and playfullness and obedience to that point. I'll bite your hand off if you come along and tease me by giving me something that I have needed (food) then do like the one you took me from and try to take it away from me. People are sometimes the stupidest things ever created. Those behaviorist's sometimes need to go back and forget about what they read and actually see.
     
  10. blueshish

    blueshish New Member

    I couldn't agree more. That food test is the dumbest thing to come along. If the animal is food aggressive than simply adopt them out to someone without small children,etc, and make sure they understand what food aggression is. It isn't rocket science!! As I stated before, I use to raise Heelers, and don't get me wrong, I think they are a absolutely wonderful breed, but I would not trust a Heeler around my kids for anything. My female hated kids. She would herd them into a corner and keep them there by force until you put her in her kennel. She also bit at least 10 people. Not attacks mind you just heeling them but she definitly wasn't what you would consider people orinated. My male was the complete opposite. He loved everyone but when he got excited he was as likely to bite as the female was. I won't get another Heeler until my kids are quite a bit older. My Pit on the other hand loves the kids as well as my other animals. It is also comforting to have Blueshish outside with them while they play. People think twice before approaching our fence with her standing there barking. She barks but has never offered to bite.
     
  11. yogi

    yogi New Member

    biting agressive or defensive

    There are many reasons why a dog will bite. To clasify one reason such as protecting their food to assume they will be an outright biting attacking machine is simply stupid. I have 10 Pins, one will bite but his rearing is to blame as well as the people who purchased him as a pup. The others, well some will bark couple active aggressive but they have not biten anyone. I just cannot see why something as simple as food aggression has to be met with euthanizing an animal. I have 2 cats that bite, I sure would not consider putting them down. That is part of their breed traits as far as my males. These organizations need to try to find qualified homes for these rare exceptions instead of just conceding. The one dog I saw if I was near Michigan, I would not have hesitated in adopting him. Whether he was food agressive or not. If you have no fear of getting bit a dog will sense this in most cases. For years I have done just the opposite of what dogs have expected and it has confused even some of the most aggressive dogs. Most animals are instinctive, make them have to think and instincts are out the window. It will confuse them when you charge them instead of running from them. In my case I have physical size that also helps so I am able to growl and sound like a bear. That one has kept large dogs from continuing their charge and actually totally stop with ears perked than total confusion took over and once I started walking toward them they actually backed up. I do not believe a dog bites just to bite. Something has caused it to be that was if it is an aggressive biter. it is just the time one wants to spend to find out what it is and work with it to resolve the issues. Peter was a biter, simply put if he thought you were even thinking of trying to reach for him he would attack. Since I have had him he has never tried. He will actually play bite when he wrestles. He will snuggle his face against mine while growling the whole time. In my case it is that I have put him into a situation where I do not initiate play or attention with him. He gets it if he comes to me. So all is left on him and with that he does not feel threatened. He if anything has become so defensive of me that now he seems to be more concerned with someone touching me than him. He gets very upset when he see's someone touch me or even mock strike me. Could he go to someone else, if need be yes but they would need to know these characteristics up front which in the case of the dogs in shelters if info was passed on would not be unadoptable.
     
  12. DeLaUK

    DeLaUK New Member

    Theres good and bad in every business (employees) but the fact is that until people boycot back yard breeders, puppy mills and stop buying dogs from pet stores the amount of unwanted, homeless dogs that overload the shelters will not be reduced so the shelters are going to have to continue to euthanize thousands every day.
    Some of the larger pet stores now no longer sell puppies...instead they have days were a local rescue centre will come in with some dogs and hold an 'adoption day'.
    Its really not that hard, instead of people wasting their time, money and energy trying to get BSL's in which have proved over and over again that they dont work, focus on the DDL's and start working on getting laws in to stop back yard breeding.

    Everyone that buys a puppy from a BYB, mill or pet store is contributing to the problem of overpopulation of unwanted dogs.
     
  13. StormyMoon

    StormyMoon New Member

    That is so sad I am glad in ways that I am in texas cause here they at least adopt them out but they have to do a yard and home inspection before you can adopt a pit bull.
     
  14. blueshish

    blueshish New Member

    I couldn't agree more. There should be laws on backyard breeding. We only bred our female Heeler 4 times in 9 years and then only after we had several request for puppies. We also never made a profit from the puppies. They went for $50 a peice so after you figure in vet cost and care we actually lost money but that was never the point. Both our Heelers were excellent cattle working dogs so local people who wanted a good worker would want a dog from us. We also had a policy of return if for some reason the person couldn't keep the dog.

    On Detroit animal cops tonight they put down 2 pits because they had mange. The vet actually said "Considering their breed we don't think the animals can be salvaged." On the same episode they went to a call about a skinny dog. When the owner took both dogs, pits, out of the basement a fight started. One of the officers went to the van a said "Damn fighting pits." They put those dogs down as soon as they arrived at the shelter. Maybe they actually was fighting dogs, the point is no one took the time to find out.
     
  15. yogi

    yogi New Member

    Detroit noted for Pit fighting

    is reason why animal control in Detroit are so prone to assuming that they are fighting dogs. Detroit has a serious situation with illegal dog fighting and in the end seems only the dogs are the losers. I cannot see any reason or excuse for Pits to need to fight at all. Just because a greyhound run because of it's nature does this mean that we are suppose to look at a pit and assume therefore it has to fight?. I mean one runs and we can only assume that it finds that running is enjoyable but no harm to any other dog. Fighting dogs I cannot see where there be any real reward for the dog in that. Only one who makes anything is the fool who is betting on it and gets lucky.
     
  16. blueshish

    blueshish New Member

    I agree that Detroit has a dog fighting problem and it did seem one of the dogs put down was a fighter. He was scared up and very aggressive towards the other dogs. The one that was attacked just stood there looking at the dog as if he was crazy. The third dog is the one that really bothered me the most. He wasn't even a part of the household. He came running up from several houses down after the fight in the house started. He circled the fighting pair but never attacked. He was also a little aggressive towards the officers after they put a catch pole on him. These things point to a dog that jumped his fence after he heard the commotion and was caught by animal control. Most fighting dogs are not really people aggressive and would have jumped right into the fray given half a chance. Looked to me like they put down some ones pet without due process.
     
  17. yogi

    yogi New Member

    innocent bystander dog not fair

    Just like people, dogs should at least be found guilty before punished. In the case of a neighborhood dog that was not part of the fray, they should have taken time to confirm all parties involved before making such a decision.
     
  18. blueshish

    blueshish New Member

    Yes, I agree. The agent said the dog was just circling the fighting pair. The camera crew clearly showed the dog running up from several houses down. At any rate he definitely did not belong in the house and did not take part in the fight.
     

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