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is this animal cruelty or wat

Discussion in 'General Topics & Support Issues' started by pookiepets, Aug 2, 2005.

  1. pookiepets

    pookiepets New Member

    well in west hollywood close to were i live there is a place called 3rd street with acts people food diesel shops puma clothing and aloot aloot more! well there is a money that is on a leash and his owner is holding him on a leash and he wears a hat and he takes money and u get to pet him! i hate that! it is soo cruel they dont belong there that is animal curelty! plz help me to stop this
     
  2. t_chelle16

    t_chelle16 New Member

    Since this in now way pertains to fish, I'm moving it here.

    -Chelle
     
  3. Trickster

    Trickster New Member

    a money on a leash?
     
  4. elizavixen

    elizavixen New Member

    I assume you meant monkey?

    How exactly is it cruel? I mean, I don't know much about monkeys, but if it were a dog, my dog in particular, he would love it. Being petted all the time I mean. From what I've seen on TV, monkeys like human attention so maybe he likes it?
     
  5. Aqueous

    Aqueous New Member

    I doubt you could do anything about it unless you can prove that the monkey is being mistreated (like no food, water, inadequate shelter).

    Honestly the way I see it it's no different than what circus' and petting zoos do on a daily basis.
     
  6. pookiepets

    pookiepets New Member

    well it has to hold to the leash and the leashe is on its neck not back soo it does not give the guy privelages..he looks soo sad and while his "owner" is sooo fat hes on a wheelchair cant move gets the money from the monkey
     
  7. kc5gvn

    kc5gvn New Member

    Hi pookiepets, What you are describing sounds like what we used to call organ grinders and organ grinder monkeys. You used to see them quite frequently at fairs. The owner would have a box that was mounted on a short pole and when he turned the crank on the side it would play music, pretty much the same technology as a jack-in-the-box. While the music played, a monkey that he had on a leash would dance. After the dance the monkey would go around collecting change in his hat from the audience. The monkeys that were generally used for this were Squirrel Monkeys and Spider Monkeys, the most common being the Squirrel Monkey which is now on the endangered list. I will paste links for information below on both monkeys.

    While the leash may seem cruel, it is there to keep the monkey from any harm and really not much different than a dog on a leash. Also, these monkeys have very demanding diets and do not last any time at all if they are not given excellent care. They also become very attached to their owner. If you were to make any threatening movement toward the owner you would be severely bitten by the monkey. When I was a kid watching organ monkeys was my favorite thing at the fair and I usually spent time talking with the organ grinder (owner) asking about the monkey. The common thread that I found in talking to the owners was how much they cared about their pet, it went with them everywhere. With their responses you would think they were talking about another person and not a pet. Again, their requirements are so demanding, if the monkey didn't look like it was at death's door you can just about bet he is getting excellent care. Next time your there in West Hollywood and you see the owner try and talk to him about his pet and I think you'll be amazed at the stories he will tell you.

    http://www.squirrel-monkeys.com/
    http://www.oaklandzoo.org/atoz/azspdmky.html
     
  8. pookiepets

    pookiepets New Member

    hahahahah sorri im laughing but no its not that! i remeber when i was not born in denver mi brother and sister loved to go to a place called organs pizza! YEAH BUT THIS IS A STRRET ATTRACTION! the poor guys on leash taking money i believe that is not right do u agree
     
  9. Aqueous

    Aqueous New Member

    Organ grinders are street attractions too.

    If the guy is in a wheelchair has it occured to you that the monkey could possibly be and aid to them man. Also being on a leash is better than letting the monkey run wherever it wants.

    I doubt what the guy is doing is illegal or animal cruelty. Atleast he is providing the monkey with mental stimulation, which is better than just having him stuck away at home. Also about him taking money for people to pet his monkey, as they say, "a fool and his money are soon parted".
     
  10. kc5gvn

    kc5gvn New Member

    I've already addressed the leash and the care the monkey is given. As far as the STREET ATTRACTION, there is not much doubt that what he is doing would be classed as panhandling and also a form of ENTERTAINMENT to the crowd. I see nothing wrong as far as the entertainment factor and given the owner's condition (wheelchair) it is obviously of monetary benefit to the owner which may be essential to both of them being able to survive, given that condition. As far as the panhandling I would rather be entertained by the trained monkey than to hear some 14 year old runaway girl's sob story about trying to get home when she is going to take and use the money to buy drugs with no intention of going home.

    My only concern with the whole situation is the number of strange people handling the monkey, knowing how suseptable they are to communicable human diseases.
     
  11. pookiepets

    pookiepets New Member

    true true sooo very true! first they pet the monkey shake his hands if u give him 5 dollars and anything below a dollar all he does is take it! wow that was funa quarter tooken away from me to the monkey! the monkey was in horrible condition did not look happy also the acting clothes he had on were torn ripped! and dirrty
     
  12. pookiepets

    pookiepets New Member

    yes i know about the leash but its like a dogs normal kind of leash around his head! i would like one that is around his shoulders like another type of leash for k-9 animals and btw it soo could not have been a aid animal that guy was perfectly sane! and he was soo large and on a wheelchair t was just hard in those cold conditions till 8 oclok at night on his feets and i saw his hands with blisters since one of his hands had to hold the leash for no apparent reason available to the human naked eye(soo nerdy) soo yea
     
  13. Aqueous

    Aqueous New Member

    Being an aid has nothing to do with being sane. Ever heard of seeing eye dogs for the blind and dogs that help physically disabled individuals (like reacing things, turning off/on lights) and if the guy has a weight problem too he may not be able to do those things for himself. Maybe the monkey is helping him live a somewhat normal life.
     
  14. Shineillusion

    Shineillusion New Member

    What does sanity have to do with being in a wheel chair? I know insane people who never use a wheel chair, and plenty of sane people who do. I myself spent several months in a wheel chair, and it had to do with a leg and back injury, not a mental one. And having been subject to the preconcieved notions people have about the handicapped, I have to say I find your attitude toward this man disturbing. You're making judgement calls that you aren't qualified to make.

    And many monkeys have that "pity me" look down pretty well. It has nothing to do with their emotions, it's just the way their faces are constructed coupled with learning the right look to get the most reward. My beagle can look pitiful if there's a cookie involved. And when he gets a bath, he REALLY looks pitiful. Would you suggest that bathing him is cruel just because he's got that "Aren't you the least bit guilty about doing this?" look down pat?

    And maybe that monkey would have enjoyed living his life in the wild. But on the other hand, maybe he wouldn't have enjoyed being bitten by other monkeys, being infested with lice and other biting pests, or being eaten by a leopard. Living in the wild is no picnic, despite what Walt Disney Pictures would have you believe.
     
  15. Bente

    Bente New Member

    If you really are worried that this monkey is suffering you should call animal control or something, and ask if they can take a look at this guy and his monkey. If you're right they can do something about it, and if you're wrong at least you'll get peace of mind. Everybody wins :wink:
     
  16. DeLaUK

    DeLaUK New Member

    I agree with Bente.
    Heres a little story for you, when I wa a kid, in the 60's, in UK there was a guy we called the rag and bone man. He'd go from street to street with his cart pulled by his pony Ned collecting peoples junk, some of it he'd fix up and sell, some of it he got money for it as scrap. Ned was popular with everyone, we all gave him apples, carrots....everyone would come out and say hello to the man and Ned (I never did know the guys name). In the mid 80's I started working voluntarily for a local no kill shelter, I didnt know at the time that they were hard core animal rights activists, I heard them talking about the guy with the pony and how the pony was old that it should be retuired and not pulling the cart anymore....I know little about horses or ponies but I agreed with them that the pony had to be really old by now....but I told them that the guy didnt make the long trips that he used to make and that he never seemed to have as much on the cart as he did 'in the old days' and that he must be taking care of the pony, it looked old but still looked healthy. I suggested they call the RSPCA just to check on the pony as they had started talking about kidnapping it (this was the first clue I had about their real activities), it turned out that the RSPCA were aware that the pony was old and still pulling the cart but, a few people had made calls to them, theyd been out and checked and were actually working with the guy....if he needed food, blankets etc, they saw no reason to take the pony from him, the guy didnt live in a house, he always lived in like a shed on an allotment with his pony. The animal rights group were not satisfied with the RSPCA's handling of the situation and the next thing I heard (Id already left the job) was the pony had been stolen, I know it was them, as did everyone else but they had takent the pony out of the area. We never saw the guy again, he'd lost not only his livlihood but his best friend of over 20 years....the rumour was he died in his shed shortly after his friend was taken.

    My guess is that if you call animal control you'll probably find that others have already called and theyve been and checked on the monkey. The guy is not hiding what he's doing, he's right out in the public for everyone, including AC to see. Dont you need a licence to keep a monkey? Unless the guys a complete idiot he has to have everything covered
    Additionally monkeys are used for disabled people, theyre a great help and give companionship to the people they live with. Im against animal exploitation, I would never step foot inside a circus, I wont go and see the Vegas shows but having assitance animals is of benefit to the people and the animals themselves. IF (and I dont know if this monkey is an assistance animal) but if it is it would be highly unlikely that the animal is being abused or neglected, a lot of time and money goes into their training, as far as I know the monkeys are born in captivity, they wouldnt stand a chance out in the wild...and whats the other altenatative? sit in a cage at a zoo for the rest of its life...what a life!!!!
     
  17. pookiepets

    pookiepets New Member

    ok..well lets sai he is his "aid" dog he is using him for money and thats not ffare
     
  18. DeLaUK

    DeLaUK New Member

    So call animal control and let them deal with it, then you can relax and know that you did your part.

    I used to work with a canine agility team, people paid money to come and see the dogs put on a show, we raised thousands for charity....was that cruel?
     
  19. Shineillusion

    Shineillusion New Member

    People use animals for money all the time. Ever go to a movie with a dog or other animal in it? The owner of that dog is using it to make money. The movie studio is using it to make money too. Is that unfair?

    I'm a dog groomer. I use animals to make money too. Am I being unfair?

    And for that matter, who ever told you life is fair lied. Life is decidedly unfair. Mother Nature is a mean Mother. Things are tough all over.

    Get over it.
     
  20. Bente

    Bente New Member

    As long as the animal(s) are treated well, with food, water, medical care, free time and lots of love and respect, i don't see any harm in people using animals to make money...
     

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