1. Grow your baby fish like a PRO

    Microworms, great live feed for your Fish or Shrimp Fry. They are easy to culture and will considerably improve your fry mortality rate. Order online to start a never-ending supply of Microworms! [ Click here to order ]

Jake has his ick AGAIN

Discussion in 'Dogs - all breeds / types' started by honeybears, Apr 3, 2004.

  1. honeybears

    honeybears New Member

    :( This is getting very frustrating,because before last year he has never had this (lip fold pyroderma)

    6 months ago they put him on antiobiotics (amoxicillin) that cleared it up, I noticed the difference in the first few days. after a month off antiobiotics he had it again, Dr didnt want to put him on more antibiotics and told to keep cleaning it, but it wasnt getting any better so they gave me another round of 3 weeks. this time it took a week before it started to clear, got better then got worse and then better during the cycle of antibiotics. the last pill was last week, well he he has got the ick full blown again. I just talked to the Dr because I told her I recently read if it is a yeast problem which she thought, the only thing that will get rid of it if tetracyclene. She said we could do that but she wanted me to try a few other things first. LOL she said to try the over the counter yeast medicine Monistat) for women for a week but then she noticed Jake has some other medcine she had given us when he had his ear infection and to try that for week.

    She said it is bacterial, but it is not being knocked out completely and if these latest things dont work she would do a swab and a culture and try to grow whatever it is to see what the culprit is.

  2. bullylove1

    bullylove1 New Member

    eek! Hope its too painful for the little guy. I had never heard of dogs getting a yeast or bacterial infection in their mouth.
    Good luck with everything
  3. honeybears

    honeybears New Member

    thanks bullylove, my little guy is my 100# lap dog :mrgreen:

    I think the vet is even perplexed. Its also in his eyes, thats the 1st sign he gets dark circles around his eyes and has a discharge and then in his lipfolds is this brown stuff that gets everywhere, on my clothes, bedding that is difficult to get out

  4. Chessmind

    Chessmind New Member

    Hi. Instead of going on and off meds and topical solutions to treat the lip fold pyoderma why don't you just have your vet do reconstructive surgery of the lower lip? It's not very expensive to do lower lip surgery (cheiloplasty). It's probably cheaper if you look at the long term of having to pay for meds all the time. Not to mention your time and effort trying to treat it. Just a thought.
  5. Jamiya

    Jamiya New Member

    That seems like a temporary solution if it is caused by allergies.

    I still say try a raw diet. And perhaps see a homeopathic vet, since you are not getting anywhere with the allopathic vet.

  6. Chessmind

    Chessmind New Member

    Hi. Jamiya you're thinking of pyoderma, not lip fold pyoderma. They are two different things. Lip fold pyoderma is cause by food,saliva and bacteria getting into the lip folds and causing an infection. Pyoderma is a skin infection that has many causes one of which is allergies. Removing the lip fold will keep things from getting trapped in it and causing an infection.
  7. Jamiya

    Jamiya New Member

    Oh! I didn't know there were two different things. Did you know this, honeybear? I know you have been dealing with allergy issues with Jake, and I thought the "brown ick" was indicative of that struggle.

  8. honeybears

    honeybears New Member

    sorry for the confusion - it is pyroderma and and not the lip fold from food and things its even in his eyes!

    Jimiya you may talk me yet into doing the raw diet once I get this under control. I do have homeopathic vet here i took Midas my cat to, but he still has hsi allergies and is on cortizone shots, although they are not as severe as they were, so I think it helped changing his food and the remedies they gave him.

  9. Jamiya

    Jamiya New Member

    Cortisone is one of the big problems, from what I have read. It disrupts the body's natural cortisone production and leads to all sorts of other problems down the road. I'll see if I can find the example about it in Dr. Goldstein's book when I get home.

    The raw diet may help get it in control, if it really is a food allergy. Did you ever go and lurk on the rawfeeding list? I am on a homeopathy list as well, although I have my reservations about this particular list.

    I hope Jake gets to feeling better soon! Every dog is different, as you know, and I know you will make the best choices you can for him.

  10. Chessmind

    Chessmind New Member

    Lol Honeybear. Now lets clear it up once and for all. You just mentioned that you were wrong and it's not lip fold pyoderma. However, now you're saying it's pyroderma (with an 'r' after the 'y'), which is different from pyoderma (no 'r' after the 'y').
  11. honeybears

    honeybears New Member

    LOL it is pyoderma, I always spell wrong, but whatever the big is, it affects his eyes too. I dont think there is a thing a pyroderma.

  12. Jamiya

    Jamiya New Member

    I'm sure I saw other things about cortisone in particular in this book, but here's what I can find (from The Nature of Animal Healing, by Martin Goldstein, D.V.M.):

    Too much cortisone can result in kidney problems, because the kidneys have to work extra hard to clear the extra sodium from the bloodstream, because cortisone has the effect of drawing sodium out of the cells (which is why the dog gets thirsty and pees a lot).

    One of the remedies he mentions in particular is glandulars - an adrenal or kidney glandular would help to support the dog's own adrenal and kidney, rather than masking the symptoms by injecting synthetic cortisone (which fools the body into thinking there is enough cortisone being made, which shuts down the adrenal's production of cortisol, which makes more synthetic cortisone needed...)

    I know, it's all very frustrating, isn't it? I wish I could find a vet near me who understands these things. I just got a card in the mail saying Nala is due for heartworm check (fine) and a routine, preventive de-worming (not fine). Soon they will be hitting me up for vaccinations. I think I need to change vets to one who will at least support no vaccinations.

  13. honeybears

    honeybears New Member

    Jimiya, At first I was like why are you talkng about cortizone when Jake is not on it, but I did say MIdas is. Interesting about the adrenal gland and cortizone. Luckily they only want to do the cortizone when he has allergies which is seasonal. And he is not sneezing :D
    They had him on prednizone for awhile but I said no, that stuff is toxic.

    Do you not vaccinate your dogs? and why do you do a preventative dewormer? Jake and Wylie have never been dewormed, but they are on sentinal heartworm which has worm stuff in it. I know there is a lot of new info out there about over-vaccinating. I dont get Jake and Wylie for kennel cough because they are never in that situation and one vet wanted to do it twice a year!

    Midas was at the vet last week and the vet because of his age wanted to back on on vaccniations and the one he feltl were eally neccessary not give give them at the same time.

  14. Jamiya

    Jamiya New Member

    I have always kept my dogs and cats "up-to-date" on shots - until now. I have just recently found out how harmful overvaccinating pets is. I will not be giving my cats any more vaccinations, ever. They are 13 years old and have received more vaccinations in their lifetimes than they will ever need.

    I would like to not give the dogs any, either, but rabies is required by law. Not sure what I am going to do about that one, yet. Their puppy shots should give them immunity for life, and good diet should take care of the rest (making their bodies and immune systems even stronger).

    My vet recommends a ton of routine, preventive de-wormings. I don't agree with that and I am not going to get it done.

    I also don't want to use heartworm preventive and flea/tick stuff, but I am looking for alternatives and doing more research. I worry about the heartworms especially, and yet it is a bit silly to give a dog poison every month, just in case he might get sick. Seems a little backwards to me.

    Your vet has the right idea - minimal vaccinations and the ones you do choose to get, get one at a time with several weeks in between. And the animal should be in good health - no giving vaccinations to sick animals or to animals under sedation for spay/neuter surgeries, for example.

  15. honeybears

    honeybears New Member

    Jimiya - I have to give heartwarm here, they say 15% of the dogs in this county get it which is the highest in the state and boy our mosquitos are bad this year! Jake must have that sweet blood just like my husband, they just swarm thme and leave me alone.

    They also wear tick collars about 6 months out of the year since we also have a terrilbe tick problem. but after this year, I have decided not to use them anymore because it is easy to give them a once over when they come in because they are light and the ticks are esy to spot. 13 I would not vaccinate either. I want to do some research because the the Nainal vet org came out last year with new guidelines on vaccniations which they dont need to be yearly (some of them).

    As for Jake, I have been putting his ear antibioitic ointment he had on his lips and it seem sot be working. The vet said to try this since I already had it and it is for yeast in the ear, and if it is ayeast problem this would help.

    She is not my regular vet, I think I am going to switch to her because she doesnt automatically prescirbe things just to get money - like trying the ear stuff for his mouth and alo the monistat.

  16. Jamiya

    Jamiya New Member

    You might give some of the alternative flea/tick/mosquito repellents a try. Put it on yourself and go out at dusk and see how well it works, LOL! If you don't get eaten alive by mosquitoes then perhaps it would be sufficient for Jake, without heartworm preventive.

    Also, there is this. A lot of the people who cease vaccinations and heartworm preventive are also people who raw feed. A raw fed dog without any "poisons" added to their systems - vaccinations, heartworm meds, flea meds, etc - is more likely to be able to fight off an infestation even if it occurs.

    Vaccinations are a different matter than heartworm, in my book. Did you read the articles I posted before? VETS who have done the research say that immunity lasts MUCH longer than the 1-3 years that vaccination manufacturers put on the bottle. Immunity in most cases lasts for a lifetime, and "more" immunity is not possible. It's like being pregnant - either you are or you aren't! Do YOU get yearly boosters of vaccinations? Nope. The only ones they repeat for people are vaccinations to toxins - like tetanus - and there are no toxin vaccinations for dogs.

    Giving shots every year is weakening your dog's immune system and potentially causing cancer down the road. Seizures are another big thing that can be caused by vaccinations. A lot of behavior issues can also be traced to vaccinations.

    The ONLY reason they started to give vaccinations every year was to "force" people to bring their dogs in for a check-up every year. They thought that vaccinations were harmless, and many still do. Your dog SHOULD have a yearly check-up (and heartworm check every 6 months, especially if you are not giving the preventive) but they do NOT need the shots.

  17. Hi Honeybear, I hope you get this thing figured out for Jakes sake, and yours. Good luck to you!

    Jamiya, that was some real good info on cotisone. My sister's shi tzu (the mother of my Freebie) has had sooooooo many of those shots due to REALY BAD allergies. The Doc. told her they can't give her any more because it is shortning her life span. I will be buying that book for her, so thank you!!!


    Hi again Honeybear, I hope you got some advise you can use.

    Hugs for Jake :D
  18. bullylove1

    bullylove1 New Member

    Do you feed a BARF diet?(I think its the same as a raw diet, please correct me if I'm wrong)I had read a little about it when I was switching Harley to an all natural diet. As of now, she is on kibble and natural diet.

    Can you give me some links to the raw diet. And what in you opinionis the nutritional differences in natural versus raw diets? Do you think one is better than the other?

  19. Jamiya

    Jamiya New Member

    It's technically not "BARF" - I feed a raw diet based on the prey model - meaning the closest I can come to whole prey animals. Which isn't very close much of the time (LOL) so I have to fabricate my own Frankenstein prey animal. It's actually quite similar to the "SARF" diet on the bulldog link I posted in another thread.

    Basically, I feed very meaty raw meaty bones (RMB's) from as many different protein sources as I can find - chicken, turkey, lamb, goat, rabbit, pork, duck, game hens, beef, etc. One a week or so, I feed a whole raw fish (cold water fish high in omega-3's are best - there are issues with fish and which to avoid that you need to learn about). For smaller meals in the morning, I alternate between canned fish of some sort (sardines, tuna, salmon, etc - because of the lack of whole fish in Kansas), a raw egg, and organ meats. I have also been using up my old supply of Nature's Variety frozen raw food, which I was feeding before I made the "big switch".

    The RMB's (including fish) should make up about 90% of the diet, with organ meats being the other 10%. The egg is extra and a good source of omega-3's (I buy organic eggs that claim to be higher in omega-3's). I feed them about 2-3 times per week.

    I am also starting to supplement with Timberwolf Organics wild salmon oil, because I worry that they are not getting enough omega-3's with the fish I am feeding, since I don't have a good source for them.

  20. Jamiya

    Jamiya New Member

    Honeybear - if you are interested in trying homeopathy, e-mail me (jamia_w@hotmail.com) and I will give you the addy of a homeopath that I am currently working with for Nala. She has you fill out a VERY detailed questionnaire which she then reviews and determines the appropriate remedy to use, which she ships to you. Homeopathy can take longer to work than allopathic medicine, but it seems to be very good with these chronic conditions that tend to stump the "regular" vets who just start throwing medications at you. The initial consultation and remedy and follow-ups costs $110 - so it's not any worse than a specialist would be. In fact, I looked at going to an opthamologist for Nala and it would be $190 just to walk in the front door.

    Homeopathy takes EVERYTHING into account - medical history, previous drugs and vaccinations, diet, behavior, visible symptoms, personality - everything! It truly treats every animal/person as an individual, which we all know is important. It's pretty fascinating and I am eager to learn more about it.


Share This Page