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Pregnancy ??? Early Signs?

Discussion in 'Dogs - all breeds / types' started by LDG, Jan 23, 2005.

  1. LDG

    LDG New Member

    Hi There:

    I need help in determing if my baby's breeding was successful. She is the offspring of 5 generations of Champions on both dam and sire sides. She was bred to a beautiful champion stud. She is OFA and Cerf cleared. This is my maiden breeding and she is a beautiful black lab with great genes. My dilema is I am hoping she is pregnant and I am anxious to know if the breeding took. It was AI on day 10,12.14 of her cycle. I have been surfing the web for weeks and have read about the palpitation and the other methods but I was hoping there was someone out there who could help me determine if she is by some the changes their bitches go through when they are in early stages of pregnancy. My vet says he can't tell by palpitating that I just have to wait and see. I am anxious and that's why I am here. Any thoughts ? She is 4 weeks post first AI. What should I be looking for ?
  2. ChinookLover89

    ChinookLover89 New Member

  3. Samsintentions

    Samsintentions New Member

    Sounds to me like you didn't do your research before breeding. You should already know these answers.

    You can have a blood test done. If the bitch is bred you will be able to tell by sonogram or blood test. My bitches don't change at all when they are bred, not until the last stages of pregnancy.
  4. charmedagain

    charmedagain New Member

    Firstly how old is she and why did you use AI????

    Signs of pregnancy the nipples especially the ones near the hind legs begin to point and her mammary tissue will start to swell but these changes can be see in a phantom pregnancy.

    A blood test at around 21days can tell by protiens in the dams blood but this can give a false positive result if she has an infection.

    Palpatation can be done around 27days but since the deveolping feotus's are vulnerable at this stage it should only be carried out by a vet.

    Ultra sound scanning can be done at 3weeks of the pregnancy better if its 4-5weeks depending on the experience of the vet using these machines they can usually tell how many whelps are in there and also tell any signs of reabsorption or abortion.

    I agree with sam you should have done alot of research into this and know all these questions as pregnancy's can and will go wrong for some dogs.

    There is a risk of her not taking and suffering from pyometra which is life threatening.
    There is a risk of something going wrong to the dam during pregnancy or during the whelp.
    There is a risk of some or all of the litter being born dead.

    Do you have the time money and patience to deal with handfeeding the whelps should anything happen to mum this means feeding every 1-2 hours around the clock keeping them warm making making the go to the toilet?
    Can you cull any pups that have cleft palate, hair lip, water on the brain, Limbs missing, eyes missing or any other deformality?

    Do you plan on having her checked during her pregnancy to make sure dam and whelps are doing well?
    Is she upto date on her shots and wormers?
    Was the male upto date on his shots and wormers?
    Do you have homes lined up for this litter?
    The list goes on...

  5. LDG

    LDG New Member

    Sam....I do know about all the blood tests and the sonograms and the palpitations and the testing and whelping and shots and the list goes on. and on about what i have researched. I know about the dangers and the signs to look for if things go wrong. I know more then you imagine. I know about the elitist attitude that exists among breeders. I love it when judgement is made and you don't know me. My question was clearly asked. I was simply asking for any physical signs that you have encountered in your breedings. I was inquiring about first hand experiences. If I don't have access to the sonogram or the blood test or if I simply choose not to use them that is my perogative. I am in the wait and see stages and I am anxious. Thanks for your implications but you are way off base.
  6. LDG

    LDG New Member

    Furthermore none of you have posted anything that I didn't already know.

    Again, first hand experiences.

    Kind of like when someone you know has experienced something you have not and you ask them about it. Their take on it. That's all I was looking for.

    I will tell you that I wasn't looking for ...you should have done this and you should have done that and you don't know enough...to that I say
    get off your high horse
  7. kyles101

    kyles101 New Member

    charmedagain has already given you his first hand experience. if you cant see physical signs then you need a vet to do further tests, and if you refuse to do this then thats your bad luck. the dog is not going to jump up and screech 'IM PREGNANT AND I HAVE 5 BABIES', you have to figure it out for yourself. but then again, you should already know this honeybun.
  8. charmedagain

    charmedagain New Member

    Ok then like sam says if you knew what you were doing if you did your research you would know the signs of pregnancy in animals.

    I have been breeding german shepherds for years and i can tell if my girls are pregnant from week 1 after mating.
    I do not know how long sam has been breeding but again she is right in saying if you did your research you would know the answer to the question your asking.

    So whats your reason for breeding your dog?
    Do you plan on making money from this if so do not count on it.

    As i say to everyone that is planning on breeding or those like yourself that have already done it that you can never do too much research its always best to be in the know before actually doing it.

    If you had done your research you would know that all dams are different so seeing changes in them is also different.

    My girls moods change, there appetite changes, they abomen changes, there energy levels change.
    There tolerance of other dogs changes.

    If you do not want to put the money in to having blood tests done or sonograms then all you can do is wait it out 65-67 days is not really along time to wait.

    You want signs to look out for well here is some for ya and this can also happen in a dam having a phantom pregnancy.

    Teats especially near the hind legs will enlarge and point ( happens during phantom pregnancy )
    Mammary glands will swell and turn a darker colour ( happens during phantom pregnancy )
    Mood changes she may become more quiet and more loving than normal ( happens during phantom pregnancy )
    Abdomen seems larger ( happens in phantom pregnancy )
    First 2weeks of pregnancy she may go off her food slightly and vomit ( happen during phantom pregnancy )
    Sleeping more less active ( happens during phantom pregnancy )

    I have dealt with all aspects from a pregnancy going well to a pregnancy that started off normal and ended badly upto a phantom pregnancy that nearly killed one of my girls.

    So do not tell people to get of there high horse all because they put there views across.
    If your that eager to know have the blood test done again like i said in my other post can give false positive result if she has an infection.
    Have a sonogram done to see if there is any pups in there as she is far enough on to see them.
    Or if you wait till she is 6weeks have an X-ray done this will show up feotal skeletons if there is any.

  9. ChinookLover89

    ChinookLover89 New Member

    truly that was very rude that was my first hand experience and I said nothing offensive even though I could think of many things when I first replied. I love that you were so rude :roll: .

    Sams and Charmed are very knowedgeable with their breeding and know what they are talking about. No one attacked you in a vicouse way so please don't act like it. This place is full of people who care alot about their dogs and other peoples dogs in general and will give you their straight forward blunt opinions and ideas when you ask for them.

    Sounds like your on the high horse :roll:
  10. LDG

    LDG New Member

    Okay let me say this again. I was looking for first hand experiences. I have the books..I have read the net. This is not something I did upon waking up with the notion. Everyone even the elite have a maiden journey. I don't understand why your being blunt is okay. Why are you out to discourage someone who truly has the right intentions. Breeding Labs is something that I have been wanting to do for 15 years or more. This is the first attempt because I am doing it right. I have done things correctly. I know this because I have done my homework. I was looking to the board for experiences that you may have had. It's kind of like when I had my first child, I read everything I could on pregnancy and I talked to everyone I knew that had had a child or was pregnant just to compare notes and stories. I didn't come here to be judged and be put down and that's exactly what happened here. I am not on a high horse and I never will be. If someone comes to me for insight, I am more then happy to tell them my experiences and what I know. I made a mistake and thought I could find that here but I was obviously mistaken. I know that when I have more information to offer and someone comes to me..I would never respond to them the way Sam did. I don't care if I have 30 litters under my belt and then some. I will always help out a fellow human being that is looking for answers.
    You obviously thought it was funny to say the things like "she isn't going to jump and tell you I am having 5 puppies" that was a remark I expect from an 11 year old not an adult. I am sorry if I have wasted your time. I won't make that mistake again. It's obvious to me that the people here aren't very nice. :|
  11. kyles101

    kyles101 New Member

    LDG, do not send lame private messages to me, if you have something to say say it to everyone. its also stupid of you assume that one who has a female dog *must* be breeding her. 'when did i breed my first bitch' you ask me in the PM. the answer is never, because i dont breed dogs that are of sub standard quality, nor do i wish to do so even if they were of good quality. if you think you are doing things right then you wouldnt of even had to ask this question and you would have gone to the vet for a blood test. you got an 11 yr olds response for an 11 yr olds question. you have a better chance of guessing if your dog is pregnant at the present time by shaking a magic 8 ball, and you know this too. you just dont want to fork out the money for the vet bill. so please, save the stupid PM's and call someone who cares. [like a vet perhaps?]
  12. Jas

    Jas New Member

    Ok everyone, take a breather.... First I'll say from reading LDG's original post their breeding isn't a spur of the moment uneducated breeding decision. That said, some more information LDG is always helpful. Sometimes people are too quick to jump the gun... yes. You must understand we get a lot of people trying to sell pups, or breed without knowing what they are doing and after a while it gets frustrating. One thing I ask is that you not assume the people here are not nice, please try and get to know our members, they are a great group and very helpful....right folks? Maybe our members can ease up a little too, please!

    Anyway, LDG have you tried out the canine pregnancy calendar http://www.schaferhund.com/pregnancy.htm it is a neat way to follow the pregnancy, but as you know symptoms and signs can vary with each dam. I've had females show many signs but with one of my girls you couldn't even tell she was pregnant until almost 8 weeks!!! We did have an ultrasound done to confirm preg. thankfully otherwise I would not have believed it. Many of the signs Mike mentioned some of my females over the years have had. Although, I've never had a vomiter ;) but one at 7 weeks along would ask to go outdoors and she could always be found in one of my flower beds :) she ever so nicely rearranged my garden, made a nice hole in the dirt to lie in, waiting. This went on every day! It was sweet.

    Good luck with your female, it sounds like you are off to a nice start with your breeding program.

  13. kyles101

    kyles101 New Member

    well i for one WOULD have dropped this subject, but i dont appreciate useless PM's being sent through my email. LDG sure showed their true colours with that one.
  14. LDG

    LDG New Member

    Thank you for your response. I do have the pregnancy calendar in my dog's file. I refer to it often. It's a great tool but I guess this being my first attempt I feel like I am over analyzing her every move. We were at the vet a little over a week ago because my girl developed an ear infection and the vet and I talked about all sorts of good stuff. Unfortunately, at the time the vet wasn't able to detect a pregnancy through palpitating her. As I have already stated I wanted to converse with others and maybe through talking I could watch for things that others had experienced. I have talked with the owner of the stud, who has been ever so helpful and is very patient with my questions. I didn't want to bother her again with a call and that's why I came here. The stud owner is very busy with showing and all sorts of things and I was trying to be considerate of her time. Jas thanks for your time. I do appreciate it, honestly.
  15. kyles101

    kyles101 New Member

    LDG, ive told you once and i will tell you again. stop sending stupid PM's to me. dont act all nicey nice in the forums now while you send out nasty PM's to people.
  16. LDG

    LDG New Member

    I don't think I was being nasty. I was just making a statement based on my encounter with you. And for the record all I said was:

    From: LDG
    To: kyles101
    Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 2:28 am
    Subject: Again
    You are not a very nice person. Karma is a wonderful thing.
  17. LDG

    LDG New Member

    This was the first PM since you want everyone to see it here it is :
    I don't think it was horrible.

    From: LDG
    To: kyles101
    Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:12 am
    Subject: Thanks
    You are not a very nice person. I wonder before you became an expert on the subject, when you bred your first bitch. Were the people that helped you so rude?
  18. kyles101

    kyles101 New Member

    LDG, you have now sent me a 3rd PM. this is the last warning.
  19. honeybears

    honeybears New Member

    LDG, what color did you breed her with??

    I have a yellow lab that has the dark eyes and nose. I was talking to someone last week whose yellow lab has the golden eyes and pale nose and commented on that how are they different, because I have seen many with that look, She said hers gets the coloring from being bred with chocolate lab lines and mine from black lab lines

  20. seaecho

    seaecho New Member

    Its true that some of the replies to your post seemed a bit abrupt, but I've been accused in the past of the same thing, and you do have to realize that dog people get mighty weary of first-timers, dreamers, and folks who think they are going to make loads of money by breeding a dog. When I was vet tech, I even occasionally had people come to my door at 10pm, after my bedtime, saying their puppy was sick, or their dog got into a fight, and could I stitch up its ear? I wasn't even a vet! But word gets around fast, and I imagine this is why medical doctors don't like to state their professions at a party, or what-have-you for fear of people mobbing them for free advice. There are so many millions of homeless dogs in this country and worldwide that have to be euthanized every day because there aren't enough homes for them. These are often young, wonderful, sweet dogs that could have a whole lifetime of family life ahead of them. Therefore, dogs should ONLY be bred with the purpose of bettering the breed. And even then, it should be thought over many, many times before you go ahead with it. Its not an easy thing, its extremely expensive, and only a very special type of person should even attempt it. That is why you got the responses that you did. These people on this board are very dedicated to their dogs, give them all the best, and are ruthless in their evaluation of their own breeding stock. They wanted to be sure you REALLY knew what you are getting into. I think that if most people who dream of breeding dogs realized just what is involved to be a responsible breeder, they would change their minds in an instant.

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