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Really setting the exaple, aren't they??

Discussion in 'Dogs - all breeds / types' started by Samsintentions, Jul 19, 2007.



  1. True_Pits

    True_Pits New Member

    I agree, we are not debating whether this is good or bad for the breed and if its wrong. I think everyone in this post agrees that dog fighting is wrong and not positive for the breed. Its true that its what people think of when they hear Pit Bull, mean guard/attack dog, vicious fighting dog, ect.

    Anything that I said was positive, great for the breed, ect was what MyPetTherapyDog does, always been awesome with this breed and showing what they are really about.

    So you think you are safe then? You have a false sense of security that since your dog are well cared for and you don't do anything wrong you won't ever have problems?

    No one has accused you of bad treatment or said you do those things, that is just my point, if they have convicted innocent people before of dog fighting why not again? If they have investigated many, many people for no real reason why do you think it won't happen?


    I'm not really sure about that, there have been many dog fighting bust nationalwide and several high profile cases in the last few years and what the majority of the outcome is that it further cements the idea in peoples heads that Pit Bulls are crazy fighting machines and only people who want a mean or fighting dog would own them.

    I for one am a "Pit Bull Advocate" but I am not so naive as to think its just the owner. How a dog behaves depends on not just raising properly, it depends on proper breeding and inherent temperament. Telling people that dogs with bad owners are only mean can have bad consequences. They may foolishly believe that if you raise it right it will have a great temperament and thats not always the case, they may miss signs that are leading up to something bad. A dogs breeding and raising goes into making that dog, and a lot of traits get passed on when it comes to temperament, behavior and personality.

    I guess I haven't had the same experiences you have had. When they are saying "There you go, more dangerous dogs, I hope they put them all down" or when they tell my friend "I told you they were only good for killing" or when a vet practically interrogates you because you bring a Pit Bull and says "Why do you own these dogs?" "All they are good for is fighting and killing kids" Jaw dropping moment there. Really seems like they have been looking little at the state the dogs are in and more at how they are vicious by nature and good for nothing. Well one guy did tell me they are good for putting bullet into and thats all they are good for and if he sees a dog like that (which I'm assuming Pit Bull type so he could be killing other breeds) he shoots it. I even know people who have had friends/family members call them on the phone and ask if they heard about the bust and it just proves how bad PIT BULLS are not the person fighting them. Its crazy how that works, they don't take any heat or what!?
    Maybe you've had better experiences and if thats the case I'm very glad that some people realize its not the dogs fault that people fight them and it doesn't make them mean.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Just because the dog has scars doesn't mean that the owner isn't caring. These baseless ideas have even spread to APBTs owners! How sad. Sometimes scars can take a long time to heal up and sometimes they might never go away. This shouldn't be taken out on the owner as its its there fault. With proper care it still takes time.

    This is a female I had with some pretty noticeable spots and then even when it healed white hairs grew back which is noticeable on a black dog.

    Another one of my females (one in my avatar) has a scar on her side that never went away thats she had since she was young, so its been years.

    If it were another breed, big deal right? I saw a lab who had a lot of scars on his face from his kennel and messing up his muzzle so there is a lot of missing hair and marks, I bet no one thinks thats a fighting dog. On the other hand my red nose male has a same problem and someone said he was "all scarred up" and "not cared for"

    [​IMG]
    I can see this dog has standing water and appears to be underweight. So now that makes some one a dog fighter? I think they would be guilty of neglect, but if it was another breed they wouldn't say the person was fighting the dogs. I've seen skinny Pit Bulls that were not fighting dogs at all.

    As far as the case, he is probably guilty with what they say they have against him. Thats not the point here though. Maybe you're missing the point then? The point is that innocent people can be investigated and charged, they can lose their dogs.

    That PETA wants the extinction of all Pit Bulls and wants to liberate all dogs (means no pets or working dogs).

    That many members of the Humane Society and ASPCA are against Pit Bulls and Pit Bull ownership, there are many out there too that don't mind Pit Bulls but so many have negative things to say about them and again jump on the dog fighting thing. One here said they picked up a "fighting dog" because they got a stray skinny pit bull, if it had been another breed it'd be considered a stray dog that couldn't find much to eat. But a young Pit Bull underweight, lose fighting dog, right. :roll:

    A lot of people don't realize it, but you'd think at least the Pit Bull people would stick together and be against it. If you say again one things equals another then you're pretty much on their side with it and are accusing innocent people. X amount of dogs = dog fighter, scarred up dogs = dog fighter. Basically like their list and reason why they have harassed to many innocent people and why so many people think Pit Bull owners are dog fighters (its because of reasons like that). They've been pumped with the info if you see this thats a dog fighter and people tend to be weak minded and not find out for themselves.

    Its not just about Pit Bulls and Sara is right, they are banning a lot of breeds and adding them to the dangerous dog list until they finally decide its not safe to own any breed. There are over 30 breeds that have been banned throughout the US including rare and less common breeds like Ca De Bou, Cane Corsos, Presa Carnios, Dogo Argentino, Tosa Inu, Boerboel, Scottish Deerhound, Fila, Kuvaz, to name a few. At least one place in Iowa has BSL against on many breeds yet again a few would be Estrela Mountain Dog, Anotolian Shepherd, Alapaha Blue Blood Bulldog, Akbash, Komondor, Kangel Dog, Leonberger, Neo, Great Pryenese, Borzio, Otterhound and a number of others. Many breeds are under the attack now.

    We should all be pulling together to stop it from further spreading and destroying innocent dogs. We should be against false accusations, media hype, ignorance, and ban together instead of being blind to the possibilities that are out there. I'm perplexed that this type of thought has spread to Pit Bull owners themselves, its so easy for them to put ideas out there and others just follow them. This isn't about Vick, if he's guilty he should hopefully get what he deserves. That doesn't mean we need to start red flagging people who own Pit Bulls and saying they meet the dog fighting criteria.
     
  2. Samsintentions

    Samsintentions New Member

    I agree to a point. Very good points made here.... I've got a few dogs, No they aren't pits, they're boerboels, and they have scars. Mostly from kennels and fence fighting when the bitches are in heat, or from a scrap here and there in the yard when they're playing.

    I will say this. Not all dogs are good dogs. It is people influenced how a dog turns out in the end. Its a breeders job to do their research, pair dogs with even healths and temperaments and have all the testings done. To insure the proper socialization and placement of those puppies into suitable homes and keep tabs of where they are at all times. I understand this isn't always possible, but its worth the effort to try.

    Now I do know that good dogs can fall into bad hands and in turn illegal and immoral actions and treatments follow. Thats not to say that EVERY dog will turn out this way.

    I've personally dealt with people that have come looking for dogs to purchase for fighting. One man came right out and told me point blank what he intended for the dog. I immediately asked them to leave, and reported them to the authorities. Any sane person would.

    Now I've had animal control on my property a few times. I've called them before to introduce my dogs, hand over licences and id information so that if my dogs were to be stolen or lost, they would know what to do with them and how to handle it. I've also been called on for "allegid illegal practices". People around here that know me, know I deal only in the highest of respects to my dogs and people involved. They all have the up most medical care, facilities and living arangements. Unfortunately accidents happen, you fix them and move on. And end the end the call was made out of jelousy and the reson being that I would not sell this individual a puppy.

    I recently took Precious to a show, where she got her National Championship, and while there had someone ask if I fought her. I replied no, and they said they just assumed since she had a few scars on her leg, feet and two on her face. That right there shows ignorance. Just because a dog looks big mean and scary, does not mean that the dog is that!!!

    I have several medial devices, medicines, and exersize equipment and toys... I guess in some eyes thats "parafanilia" for fighting. No, I run a farm and from time to time, my animals need minor medical care, its better to be prepared than to be left in the middle of no where without supplies.

    We do have a pit, MIckey, who is out of known fighting lines. He's got dog agression, but its been manageable and we've been able to control it. We know who we can and can't let him play with, so on and so forth. Its our responcibility to control him. Its every owners responcibility to do so. Now the sad part about him is, He's never been accused of being a fighting dog, but yet, my boerboels have. why... because he's a real pitbull and not the sterotypical " monster" that people have conjured up in their minds.
    they see a cute playful dog, next to BIG intimidating dogs and just assume the bigger and scarier, the meaner.

    Now if Michael Vick is innocent. God grant him the ability to pull thru and justice prevail, but if he's guilty, I hope he's tormented with the nastiest treatment available....
    Theres no excuse for animal cruelty. But no matter the objectiveness brought to light of him being innocent, i just feel it in my gut that he's guilty....

    ok off my soap box for now...
     
  3. loves-da-pits

    loves-da-pits New Member

    [​IMG]

    Found innocent or guilty, Vick's dogs will have the last word. I'll be surprised if he receives anything more but a slap on the wrist. But people will get to see the real man behind the Football Hero's facade. Authorities will be watching so close that he will never be able to hurt another animal.
     
  4. Samsintentions

    Samsintentions New Member

    Thats true.
    Hopefully all of the news and highlights this is getting...it'll scare the people out there doing the wrong, and make them stop for fear that they will get caught!!!
     
  5. True_Pits

    True_Pits New Member

    We could only hope Sams, but being with all the bust there have been and still people out doing it I don't know.
     
  6. Samsintentions

    Samsintentions New Member

    I know its awful.....
    What gets me is cock fighting. ya know thats just as cruel and they mutilate them just as bad and even worse than dogs, and yet its LEGAL in Louisanna and other states!!!!

    I'm waiting to hear back on a boel thats over there in a kill shelter. Might try and foster her if things work out and find her a good home. She looks just like my Vader girl....

    http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/dis ... 6712&mtf=1
     
  7. True_Pits

    True_Pits New Member

    She is very cute, I hope she gets out!! It says she's a bullmastiff/boxer cross.
     
  8. Samsintentions

    Samsintentions New Member

    yeah, apparently the shelter had never heard of a boerboel before...

    Clearly thats what she is.
    Supposed to get here to my house on Sunday. Hope she makes it ok....
     
  9. True_Pits

    True_Pits New Member

    Oh well that makes sense, a lot of people haven't.

    We are supposed to be in TX Monday I hope, but might be Tuesday.
     
  10. Samsintentions

    Samsintentions New Member

    You should swing by if ya get the chance!!!
     
  11. MyPetTherapyDog

    MyPetTherapyDog New Member

    Vick Co-defendant Pleads Guilty to Dogfighting Conspiracy

    Vick Co-defendant Pleads Guilty to Dogfighting Conspiracy Charges

    By LARRY O'DELL
    RICHMOND, Va. (AP) - One of Michael Vick's co-defendants pleaded guilty Monday to federal dogfighting conspiracy charges in a plea agreement with prosecutors.

    Tony Taylor, 34, who will be sentenced Dec. 14, said he was not promised any specific sentence in return for his cooperation with the government.

    Taylor faces a maximum of five years in prison and a $250,000 fine, but likely will get less under federal sentencing guidelines. The guideline range will be determined by court officials, and U.S. District Judge Henry E. Hudson can depart from that range if he finds aggravating or mitigating circumstances.

    "You're pleading guilty and taking your chances, right?" Hudson asked Taylor.

    He responded, "Yes."

    Taylor had the same answer when Hudson asked: "You have agreed to cooperate fully with the United States, is that right?"

    Taylor, of Hampton, entered his plea to conspiracy to travel in interstate commerce in aid of unlawful activities, and conspiring to sponsor a dog in an animal fighting venture.

    Vick, the star quarterback for the Atlanta Falcons, and two other co-defendants pleaded not guilty last week to the same charges.

    Taylor and his attorney, Stephen A. Hudgins of Newport News, refused to answer reporters' questions as they left the federal courthouse after the 15-minute hearing.

    Prosecutors claimed in a July 17 indictment that Taylor found the Surry County property that Vick purchased and used as the site of "Bad Newz Kennels," a dogfighting enterprise. Taylor also allegedly helped purchase pit bulls and killed at least two dogs that fared poorly in test fights.

    According to the 18-page indictment, the dogfighting ring executed underperforming dogs by drowning, hanging and other brutal means. It alleges that the fights offered purses as high as $26,000.

    The grisly details outlined in the indictment have fueled protests and public outrage against Vick. NFL commissioner Roger Goodell has banned Vick from the Falcons' training camp while the league investigates.

    Vick and Purnell A. Peace, 35, of Virginia Beach, and Quanis L. Phillips, 28, of Atlanta, are scheduled for trial Nov. 26. They remain free without bond.
     
  12. Samsintentions

    Samsintentions New Member

    Hmm. well Likely he won't serve much time or get punished very much. More likely it'll just be a slap on the wrist.... seems most famous people get out that way.

    Not to meantion no one has entered any plea bargain information either....
     
  13. MyPetTherapyDog

    MyPetTherapyDog New Member

    Aug 20, 5:37 PM EDT


    Falcons' Vick to Plead Guilty to Charges

    By LARRY O'DELL
    Associated Press Writer


    RICHMOND, Va. ~~ Michael Vick agreed Monday to plead guilty to federal dogfighting conspiracy charges, a deal that leaves the Atlanta Falcons quarterback facing up to 18 months in prison and puts his NFL career in jeopardy.

    Under the plea agreement, prosecutors will recommend Vick be sentenced to between a year and 18 months in prison, according to a government official who spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because the terms have not yet been made final.

    That would be a higher penalty than is usually recommended for first-time convicts, and reflects an attempt by the government to show that animal abusers will receive more than a slap on the wrist for their crimes, the official said.

    U.S. District Judge Henry Hudson will have the final say on how much time Vick will ultimately spend in jail.

    Vick's plea hearing is Aug. 27.

    Defense attorney Billy Martin said Vick reached an agreement with federal prosecutors after consulting with his family during the weekend.

    "Mr. Vick has agreed to enter a plea of guilty to those charges and to accept full responsibility for his actions and the mistakes he has made," Martin said in a statement. "Michael wishes to apologize again to everyone who has been hurt by this matter."

    The NFL noted in a statement that Vick's admission wasn't in line with what he told commissioner Roger Goodell shortly after he was initially charged.

    "We totally condemn the conduct outlined in the charges, which is inconsistent with what Michael Vick previously told both our office and the Falcons," the NFL said.

    The league, which barred Vick from training camp, said it has asked the Falcons to withhold further action while the NFL's own investigation wraps up.

    The Falcons said they were "certainly troubled" by news of the plea but would withhold further comment in compliance with Goodell's request.

    In a telephone interview with the AP, Martin said Vick is paying a high price for allowing old friends to influence his behavior, but he emphasized that his client takes full responsibility.

    "There were some judgment issues in terms of people he was associating with," Martin said. "He realized this is very serious, and he decided to plead so he can begin the healing process."

    The lawyer said salvaging Vick's NFL career was never part of the discussions.

    "Football is not the most important thing in Michael Vick's life," he said. "He wants to get his life back on track."

    Vick is charged with conspiracy to travel in interstate commerce in aid of unlawful activities and conspiracy to sponsor a dog in an animal fighting venture. He had pleaded not guilty last month and vowed to clear his name at a November trial.

    The plea deal was announced just a new grand jury began meeting. Prosecutors had said that a superseding indictment was in the works, but Vick's plea most likely means he will not face additional charges.

    Three of Vick's original co-defendants already have pleaded guilty and agreed to testify against him if the case went to trial. Quanis Phillips of Atlanta and Purnell Peace of Virginia Beach signed statements saying the 27-year-old quarterback participated in executing at least eight underperforming dogs by various means, including drowning and hanging.

    Phillips, Peace and Tony Taylor, who pleaded guilty last month, also said Vick provided virtually all of the gambling and operating funds for his "Bad Newz Kennels" operation in rural Virginia, not far from Vick's hometown of Newport News.

    The gambling allegations alone could trigger a lifetime ban under the NFL's personal conduct policy.

    Vick's Atlanta attorney, Daniel Meachum, told the AP that Vick is taking a chance with his guilty plea as far as his career is concerned because there have been no discussions with the league in recent days.

    "There's no promise or even a request of the league to make a promise," Meachum said.

    Meachum said the plea deal involves only the federal case. He said he doesn't know if there have been any discussions about resolving Virginia state charges that may be brought against Vick.

    The case began April 25 when investigators conducting a drug search at a massive home Vick built in Surry County found 66 dogs, some of them injured, and items typically used in dogfighting. They included a "rape stand" that holds aggressive dogs in place for mating and a "breakstick" used to pry open a dog's mouth.

    Vick contended he knew nothing about a dogfighting operation at the home, where one of his cousins lived, and said he rarely visited. The former Virginia Tech star also blamed friends and family members for taking advantage of his generosity and pledged to be more scrupulous.

    The July 17 indictment said dogs that lost fights or fared poorly in test fights were sometimes executed by hanging, electrocution or other brutal means. The grisly details fueled public protests against Vick and cost him some of his lucrative endorsement deals.



    Associated Press Writers Harry R. Weber and Doug Gross in Atlanta and Michael Felberbaum in Richmond contributed to this report.
     
  14. Sara

    Sara New Member

    Well...watch out now...18 hours ago this is what was reported as far as PETA goes in all of this media meheim...

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/08/20/vick.advocates.ap/index.html

    NEW YORK (AP) -- Now that Michael Vick has agreed to plead guilty to federal dogfighting conspiracy charges, animal advocates are hoping the NFL and others take action to continue working against dog violence.

    People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals said it was offering a reward for tips leading to the conviction of those involed in dog fighting, and other groups said they hoped the Vick case brought more attention to a practice they called barbaric.

    "Since the Vick case ripped the lid off dogfighting, law enforcement and PETA are getting tips and leads on other cases across the country," said PETA spokesman David Perle. "PETA is offering a $5,000 reward for information leading to the arrest and conviction of anyone involved in dogfighting, and we are working with law enforcement in a number of different jurisdictions."

    The American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, which has worked with police before to educate them about prosecuting animal cruelty as well as to train officers, hailed the news of Vick's impending plea.

    "We salute the U.S. Attorney's office and the USDA in their dedication to pursuing this case," ASPCA president Ed Sayres said. "It sends a clear message to those engaged in animal cruelty -- that these acts are barbaric and unacceptable in a humane community."

    Although Vick faces up to five years in prison and a $250,000 fine, prosecutors will recommend Vick be sentenced to between a year and 18 months in prison, according to a government official who spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because the terms have not yet been made final.

    That would be a higher penalty than is usually recommended for first-time convicts, and reflects an attempt by the government to show that animal abusers will receive more than a slap on the wrist for their crimes, the official said.

    The American Kennel Club, known as the organization that registers dog breeds and puts on the popular Westminster Kennel Club show, expressed concern that even that punishment could be insufficient.

    "While we are pleased to hear that the Vick case is being settled through the criminal justice system, we remain concerned that the punishment will be inadequate considering the heinous nature of the crimes," AKC chairman Ron Menaker said.

    Few NFL players had much they cared to say about the news on Monday. Tennessee Titans quarterback Vince Young understands how much attention is on a young, star quarterback in the NFL.

    "You've got a lot of people that look up to you. You've got to watch every step, every move you make every time you step out in public. It's a risk for quarterbacks every day because a lot of people are watching," Young said.

    Others said they hoped Vick could serve as an example of what not to do for NFL players.

    "It's another one of those cases where you hope the young guys are paying attention," Jaguars defensive tackle Seth Payne said. "There are a lot of people out there that can make you feel real guilty about not getting into a bad situation. You have learn early on who to say no to because it's a very slippery slope. It can lead a lot of people down the wrong fork in the road early in their NFL careers."

    Vick's former college coach expressed dismay.

    "I, like all people who know and care about Michael Vick, was very disappointed and saddened by the news," Virginia Tech coach Frank Beamer said. "Although all the details are not known at this time, I am greatly concerned that Michael has put himself in this position."

    Beamer wasn't the only one concerned for Vick.

    "This one of the worst sets of facts that as a criminal lawyer I've been asked to resolve," Vick's lead defense attorney, Billy Martin, said. "The client is a person who seems to have done all the right things that have him prepared for this stage of life, and the mistake of allowing the influence of friends has him now responsible for this conduct."

    Martin said Vick is paying a high price for allowing old friends to influence his behavior, but he emphasized that his client takes full responsibility. He also said salvaging Vick's NFL career was not a consideration.

    The president of the Humane Society expressed sympathy for the damage that may have been done to Vick's life.

    "The resolution of this federal case is no cause for celebration -- many dogs suffered terribly and a gifted athlete and his bright career have been perhaps irreparably damaged," Wayne Pacelle said. "The only good that can come from this case is that the American people dedicate themselves to the task of rooting out dogfighting in every infected area where it thrives."

    Copyright 2007 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

    How exciting guys...you all might get some reward for reporting dog fighting activity...so if you see anyone with more than one pit...a breaking stick and a treadmill...report away...you might get some cash...

    Wait...I fit that descirption and so does a friend of mine...nevermind...hopefully my dogs and life aren't worth the cash to you folks on this board at least...although many of you did mention most all of us have nothing to worry about...

    this...this reward crap...THIS makes me worry. I think you all should start worrying too for that matter...because where will it stop...PETA will use this as far as it can...to make extinct the practice of having pets period...ASPCA will do the same...at least it'll do it's best to rid the world of these nasty little critters...Pit Bulls...

    Sara
     
  15. loves-da-pits

    loves-da-pits New Member

    I think I am am capable enough to distinguish between family pit bulls and fighting pit bulls. If I suspect someone fighting their dogs, I will report them. If they have nothing to hide, then no harm done and I apologize. I would not be reward motivated.

    I have more than one pit bull and I am not concerned because my dogs do not have the appearance of fighting dogs. My dogs are chained to car axels. My dogs are full of scars. My dogs sleep on big cedar pillows at night, not on the ground in a kennel. My dogs are spayed and neutered and licensed with the County. If someone should turn me in, I say bring it on.

    PETA has their own agenda. We all know what that is. They use cases like Mike Vick and spin it for their own use. To eradicate the world of pit bulls.

    And if brings to light what' been going on for years and years and expose the guilty people doing it, then the Michael Vick debacle could end up being a positve end to the means.
     
  16. Sara

    Sara New Member

    You still don't get it do you.... Seriously...even if a dog was on a an Axel in the yard and sleeping outside...do you really think that's cause for rightly pointing a finger? Even if someone had that above and some dogs with scars on them...is that really a reason to bust down their door because the neighbor saw the dogs on axels? It's a common means of keeping pit bulls...easier than dog runs more cost effective and the dogs are happier...

    Ranchers treat their ACD's about the same way...no chain, well sometimes they're on a chain, no axel because a Healer isn't in need of something that strong...but they sleep outside on the ground and it's not beyond reason that a Healer would be scarred...and that someone would have more than one Healer...do you think the neighbors down the way are going to turn them in on suspicion of dog fighting? Based on the breed they simply wouldn't do it. They wouldn't do it if it was a Dane tied out...or A lab (THAT happens ALL THE TIME)... You are completely missing the point... The signs you have mentioned above are not evidence of dog fighting... Evidence of dog fighting would be...a dog fighting pit or box... Fresh wounds on dogs on a regular basis... That's about it as far as I'm concerned. I would be PISSED if I had a call in to check out my dogs...I would also be nervous...no scars to speak of really but I have a breaking stick and use a mill regularly and I do tend to travel a lot with my dogs. And if you wanted to count how many dogs have come and gone from my place...it'd be quite a few... They could easily press charges if someone was really out to get rid of the breed in this town...if the judge was aiming at the breed being ousted from town they'd be all about convicting me on whatever they could find...

    You might keep your dogs as house pets and feel safe but you're not...you're not safe because you own pit bulls. That's it, plain and simple...the way the laws are working and the sensationalizm is hyped up...even you folks with dogs sleeping on cedar beds at nigh in their cozy rooms are at risk here... Take it from folks who live nearby one of the worst crack downs so far in the states... Colorado... or Denver Colorado to be exact. BSL spread like wild fire a couple years ago... WILD FIRE and WP dogs were at risk, pets were at risk... Small towns would pass Ordinances and I'm not kidding or exhaggerating, the AC officers would be out on the hunt the next day picking up dogs and taking them in to be PTS... WE in areas where BSL wasn't breathing down our backs had to be Johnny on the spot to get rescues out... A few lucky folks managed to press charges because of the unconstitutionality of the practice but many PETS were put to sleep... In the wake of the issue those of us who were praying it wasn't going to come to our area are a little gunshy and for good reason...

    YOU haven't seen it happen...YOU haven't seen good dogs get taken from good owners...from the best owners... I went to a dog show in Golden not too long ago and I was pretty nervous just driving THROUGH Denver with my dog...I know they couldn't do anything but at the same time...I was so used to worrying about it, and having the dogs in the area, I still found myself breathing easy when I finally got through Denver or back home and didn't have to worry anymore about someone deciding on a whim to take my dog away from me.

    What this case has done and what PETA is successfully doing is placing the negative aspects of this breed in the largely HUGELY ignorant public's eye and you are not worried...?

    I just dont' get it... :cry: :cry: :cry:

    Sara
     
  17. True_Pits

    True_Pits New Member

    That is good if you can, you are probably right I think I can most of the time. YOU wouldn't be reward motivated, but many people are, who wouldn't like an extra 5k? Some people are greedy and don't care. Because of reward motivated people is why that innocent person I know was called on and convicted of dog fighting. Its not just the cowardly lier who called and made up outlandish things, I realize that a lot of fault lies with the people who pushed to prosecute without evidence, allow perjury and allow for the evidence to be killed instead of in protective custody. You are probably more educated then most people, I have had a lot of people hear the word breaking stick and think aren't those for dog fighters.


    So if a dog is chained on an axel (which I thought was legal) it is ok for them to be taken and destroyed and the owners arrested for dog fighting? I can't believe that. If some one isn't breaking the law at all but others don't think dogs should be outside, kept in a certain manner, ect its alright to falsely arrest and kill dogs for no good reason other then opinions?!?!?!

    That is pretty sad what people think is alright. Sounds just like the crap the animal welfare people spread. If you see a Pit Bull with a 2" collar better call quick, those are fighting dogs be on the lookout.

    These are just your opinions. Scary if anyone near you has outdoor Pit Bulls. Can't believe you think its ok to falsely turn them in because you don't like the way the dogs are kept. I don't see how it is ok to have them harrassed, put through bull, arrested, dogs taken and if they are not killed they might just have other issues from the poor treatment they will get while being held as evidence. Mental anguish, all these are part of it. I don't see how a "pit bull lover" would wish this on another owner or their innocent dogs.

    Again these are your opinions but what about others opinions, you may call for this or that reason, but what about other people, you're not the only one that matters. What about the people who will call on you because you have more then one Pit Bull or because you jog/walk your Pit Bull? You are ok with people turning you in for no reason?

    I'm not in anyway. If some moron calls on me for a stupid reason and I'm arrested, dogs taken and put through hell I will not except some lame apology and its not no harm done! I'd be pretty mad that my dogs were kept in cages with no play/love, badly cared for, fed crap dog food, ect. My dogs are used to a certain life style. They would not know why they are being taken from me and kept like some kind of horrible creature and away from me. Harm comes to me from being put through a mess, just because its cleared up doesn't mean I wasn't treated like a criminal and harm comes to my dogs by being kept. To me this is no different then falsely a accusing another of child abuse, I realize dogs are not kids, so lets not go there, but we all know they think and feel. They are intelligent living beings. The same comes of it, some BS call and people are arrested and kids taken away to some worse place.

    Ok so people who use kennels and/or breed deserve to be treated like a criminal and accused of things which are not true. Their dogs deserve the mistreatment and containment. Really makes little sense, a dog thats in a kennels should be ripped from its home and placed in a smaller kennel with no love and barely any care.

    YOUR dogs, but that means little doesn't it? It doesn't matter how many dogs you have, how they are kept, what you do and don't do, it only matters if someone wants to call on you. I'm just as willing as you to fight off some bogus charges and save the lives of my dogs, but I'm certainly not saying bring it on, I know they don't have the evidence but I still wouldn't be happy about the hell endured on my part or my dogs. You sound like the person who only had 2 dogs and lived in an apartment, when the neighbor called and the police should up it didn't matter that these were well cared for dog in healthy conditions that lived indoors, slept with their owner, were obedience trained, all that matters was these were two "fighting Pit Bulls" they barged their way in the door (illegal) and took the dogs, both of which were destroyed (illegal and unconstitutional) and when the charges were dismissed and obviously ludicrous it meant little in bringing the 2 pets back to life. A lot of people don't know their rights. A lot of time these "upholders of the law" do illegal stuff that isn't right, but you can't always stop them at the time. If you know your rights you might be able to step in and say no, depends on the situation. If they use for against you that you can't defend against then you might know its wrong but be able to do nothing about it, then you are screwed, you can sue later but it won't take back the act and whatever damaging consequences came from it.

    Exactly, they want Pit Bulls and ALL DOGS done. A positive end to a means just isn't going to work. Its a very negative effect on dog owners rights and legal rights in general. Destroying all dogs would end any type of abuse and neglect on them, but then where would we be left. Dog and man have worked together since the beginning and now we want to destroy them for what?
     
  18. MyPetTherapyDog

    MyPetTherapyDog New Member

    Bad Newz for VICK ~~ HA I'm feeling better already!~

    NFL suspends Michael Vick indefinitely By LARRY O'DELL, Associated Press Writer



    RICHMOND, Va. - The NFL indefinitely suspended Michael Vick without pay Friday just hours after he acknowledged in court papers that he did, indeed, bankroll gambling on dogfighting and helped kill some dogs not worthy of the pit.


    Vick, however, insisted he placed no bets of his own nor took any winnings.

    In disciplining Vick, commissioner Roger Goodell said Vick's admitted conduct was "not only illegal but also cruel and reprehensible" and regardless whether he personally placed bets, "your actions in funding the betting and your association with illegal gambling both violate the terms of your NFL player contract and expose you to corrupting influences in derogation of one of the most fundamental responsibilities of an NFL player."

    Goodell freed the Falcons to "assert any claims or remedies" to recover $22 million of Vick's signing bonus from the 10-year, $130 million contract he signed in 2004.

    The commissioner didn't speak to Vick but based his deicison on the court filings. NFL spokesman Greg Aiello said Goodell may meet with Vick in the future, but that hasn't been determined.

    "You have engaged in conduct detrimental to the welfare of the NFL and have violated the league's personal conduct policy," Goodell told Vick in a letter.

    Earlier Friday, a "summary of facts" signed by Vick was filed along with his written plea agreement on a federal dogfighting conspiracy charge. He will appear before U.S. District Judge Henry E. Hudson to formally plead guilty Monday and then await sentencing at a later date.

    The court documents and a statement by Vick's legal team seek to portray him as less involved in the dogfighting ring than three co-defendants who previously pleaded guilty and agreed to testify against the Atlanta Falcons quarterback.

    "While Mr. Vick is not personally charged with or responsible for committing all of the acts alleged in the indictment, as with any conspiracy charge, he is taking full responsibility for his actions and the actions of the others involved," the defense team said in a written statement after the plea agreement was filed.

    "Mr. Vick apologizes for his poor judgment in associating himself with those involved in dog fighting and realizes he should never have been involved in this conduct," the statement said.

    Vick signed the plea agreement late Thursday.

    "Most of the Bad Newz Kennels operation and gambling monies were provided by Vick," the summary of facts said, echoing language in plea agreements by the three co-defendants.

    The statement said that when the kennel's dogs won, the gambling proceeds were generally shared by Vick's three co-defendants — Tony Taylor, Purnell Peace and Quanis Phillips.

    "Vick did not gamble by placing side bets on any of the fights. Vick did not receive any of the proceeds of the purses that were won by Bad Newz Kennels," the summary said.

    According to the statement, Vick also was involved with the others in killing six to eight dogs that did not perform well in testing sessions last April. The dogs were executed by drowning or hanging.

    "Vick agrees and stipulates that these dogs all died as a result of the collective efforts" of Vick, Phillips and Peace, the statement said.

    In the plea agreement, the government committed to recommending a sentence on the low end of the federal sentencing guideline range of a year to 18 months. However, the conspiracy charge is punishable by up to five years in prison, and the judge is not bound by any recommendation or by the guidelines.

    Hudson has a reputation for imposing stiff sentences, according to lawyers who have appeared in his court. The judge will set a sentencing date at Monday's hearing.

    "Our position has been that we are going to try to help Judge Hudson understand all the facts and Michael's role," Vick's defense attorney, Billy Martin, said in telephone interview. "Michael's role was different than others associated with this incident."

    Martin said Vick will "speak to the public and explain his actions." Though he declined to say when and where, the Tom Joyner Morning Show, a syndicated program based in Dallas, said it will have a live interview with Vick on Tuesday.

    The U.S. attorney's office, which has declined to comment on the case, said it would issue a statement after the hearing.

    The case began in April when authorities conducting a drug investigation of Vick's cousin raided a Surry County property owned by Vick and found dozens of dogs, some injured, and equipment commonly used in dogfighting.

    A federal indictment issued in July charged Vick, Peace, Phillips and Taylor with an interstate dogfighting conspiracy. Vick initially denied any involvement, and all four men pleaded innocent.

    Taylor was the first to change his plea to guilty, saying Vick financed the dogfighting ring's gambling and operations. Peace and Phillips soon followed, alleging that Vick joined them in killing dogs that did not measure up in test fights.

    The sickening details outlined in the indictment and other court papers prompted a public backlash against Vick, who had been one of the NFL's most popular players.

    As animal-rights groups mobilized against Vick and sponsors dropped him, Vick was barred from the Falcons training camp, but neither the NFL nor the team have taken further action.
     
  19. MyPetTherapyDog

    MyPetTherapyDog New Member

    Bad Newz for VICK ~~ HA I'm feeling better already!~

    NFL suspends Michael Vick indefinitely By LARRY O'DELL, Associated Press Writer



    RICHMOND, Va. - The NFL indefinitely suspended Michael Vick without pay Friday just hours after he acknowledged in court papers that he did, indeed, bankroll gambling on dogfighting and helped kill some dogs not worthy of the pit.


    Vick, however, insisted he placed no bets of his own nor took any winnings.

    In disciplining Vick, commissioner Roger Goodell said Vick's admitted conduct was "not only illegal but also cruel and reprehensible" and regardless whether he personally placed bets, "your actions in funding the betting and your association with illegal gambling both violate the terms of your NFL player contract and expose you to corrupting influences in derogation of one of the most fundamental responsibilities of an NFL player."

    Goodell freed the Falcons to "assert any claims or remedies" to recover $22 million of Vick's signing bonus from the 10-year, $130 million contract he signed in 2004.

    The commissioner didn't speak to Vick but based his deicison on the court filings. NFL spokesman Greg Aiello said Goodell may meet with Vick in the future, but that hasn't been determined.

    "You have engaged in conduct detrimental to the welfare of the NFL and have violated the league's personal conduct policy," Goodell told Vick in a letter.

    Earlier Friday, a "summary of facts" signed by Vick was filed along with his written plea agreement on a federal dogfighting conspiracy charge. He will appear before U.S. District Judge Henry E. Hudson to formally plead guilty Monday and then await sentencing at a later date.

    The court documents and a statement by Vick's legal team seek to portray him as less involved in the dogfighting ring than three co-defendants who previously pleaded guilty and agreed to testify against the Atlanta Falcons quarterback.

    "While Mr. Vick is not personally charged with or responsible for committing all of the acts alleged in the indictment, as with any conspiracy charge, he is taking full responsibility for his actions and the actions of the others involved," the defense team said in a written statement after the plea agreement was filed.

    "Mr. Vick apologizes for his poor judgment in associating himself with those involved in dog fighting and realizes he should never have been involved in this conduct," the statement said.

    Vick signed the plea agreement late Thursday.

    "Most of the Bad Newz Kennels operation and gambling monies were provided by Vick," the summary of facts said, echoing language in plea agreements by the three co-defendants.

    The statement said that when the kennel's dogs won, the gambling proceeds were generally shared by Vick's three co-defendants — Tony Taylor, Purnell Peace and Quanis Phillips.

    "Vick did not gamble by placing side bets on any of the fights. Vick did not receive any of the proceeds of the purses that were won by Bad Newz Kennels," the summary said.

    According to the statement, Vick also was involved with the others in killing six to eight dogs that did not perform well in testing sessions last April. The dogs were executed by drowning or hanging.

    "Vick agrees and stipulates that these dogs all died as a result of the collective efforts" of Vick, Phillips and Peace, the statement said.

    In the plea agreement, the government committed to recommending a sentence on the low end of the federal sentencing guideline range of a year to 18 months. However, the conspiracy charge is punishable by up to five years in prison, and the judge is not bound by any recommendation or by the guidelines.

    Hudson has a reputation for imposing stiff sentences, according to lawyers who have appeared in his court. The judge will set a sentencing date at Monday's hearing.

    "Our position has been that we are going to try to help Judge Hudson understand all the facts and Michael's role," Vick's defense attorney, Billy Martin, said in telephone interview. "Michael's role was different than others associated with this incident."

    Martin said Vick will "speak to the public and explain his actions." Though he declined to say when and where, the Tom Joyner Morning Show, a syndicated program based in Dallas, said it will have a live interview with Vick on Tuesday.

    The U.S. attorney's office, which has declined to comment on the case, said it would issue a statement after the hearing.

    The case began in April when authorities conducting a drug investigation of Vick's cousin raided a Surry County property owned by Vick and found dozens of dogs, some injured, and equipment commonly used in dogfighting.

    A federal indictment issued in July charged Vick, Peace, Phillips and Taylor with an interstate dogfighting conspiracy. Vick initially denied any involvement, and all four men pleaded innocent.

    Taylor was the first to change his plea to guilty, saying Vick financed the dogfighting ring's gambling and operations. Peace and Phillips soon followed, alleging that Vick joined them in killing dogs that did not measure up in test fights.

    The sickening details outlined in the indictment and other court papers prompted a public backlash against Vick, who had been one of the NFL's most popular players.

    As animal-rights groups mobilized against Vick and sponsors dropped him, Vick was barred from the Falcons training camp, but neither the NFL nor the team have taken further action.
     
  20. loves-da-pits

    loves-da-pits New Member

    So, it's official, Mike Vick is guilty. 54 pit bulls that were confiscated from his property and held for evidense will be euthanized. Not to forget the 10 or so dogs who were hanged, drowned, shot, or electrocuted. So, do some of you think that he was falsely accused? That he was coerced into incriminating himself?

    And believe it or not, the general consensus of some of the most harden pit bull critics, sympathize with pit bulls and condemn the people who abuse them and fight them. PETA is scum to use these type of people and these types of situations to benefit their own warped agenda and to try to brainwash people into thinking that pit bulls are freaks of nature that should be destroyed or contained in a zoo.

    Already tips are coming in on pit bull fighting and pit bull abuse. Today here in Phoenix, Arizona Rapper DMX's house was raided and they discovered more of the same pit bulls in the same kind of condition. Starving, injured, and dead. But guess what? They say they're all innocent, too. Imagine that.
     

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