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Really setting the exaple, aren't they??

Discussion in 'Dogs - all breeds / types' started by Samsintentions, Jul 19, 2007.



  1. honeybears

    honeybears New Member

    The thing that sickens me is his term, he used "poor judgement" he has no remorse whatsoever. I wish he would have gotten suspended permantly from the NFL, and hopefully jail time, etc. An article the other showed these other atheletes convicted of various crimes crimes even worse than this and they are back playing with other teams after they were permantly suspended from their own.

    Sharon, I dont know if there is any truth to this news I heard yesterday but a judge orderd the dogs not to be euthenized.
     
  2. Sara

    Sara New Member

    I don't know why you insist on assuming that those of us who are unhappy about the media coverage of Vick, Rames, and DMX think that we are on their side... It's absolutely not true... The truth of the matter is that Vick plead guilty to involvement in dog fighting in reality he was partial owner of the dogs fought and killed...simply by association that makes him guilty...period... I do believe that he probably did not place bets on the dogs...he had no reason too...he makes tons of money with his football career... Those are just the simple facts and his own statements...perhaps he benefited monitarily due to being partial owner of the dogs involved...and again there's yet to be proof (aside from people agreeing to plead and name names) that he actually killed dogs, or ordered them killed...he's the only one who could remove doubt...or video/taped conversations... What Vick did, was knowingly choose to stand by while dogs he partially owned were being treated heinously...that's wrong but not necessarily on the same level as those who were actively involved in starving, mutilating, killing and fighting the dogs in question...it takes a whole different level of psychological issues to participate in this kind of activity...Vick, while being jaded obviously and uncaring may not be the monster people are making him out to be. A big jerk and a type with total dis-regard to loss of life...SURE... He should be punished and possibly thrown out of the NFL but fact of the matter is, if he did not gamble and no proof is there for his active participation in cruelty beyond his checkbook and funding of such behavior the NFL has no grounds to kick him out... If he's guilty of active participation then they probably have a legal leg to stand on to kick him out... Then again no one knows what a football players contract consists of so it's all speculation till a decision is made to remove him from play for life... (which is fine with me, the guy was a jerk to begin with...he's even worse now IMO...)

    Obviously no I do not believe he was "co-erced" into pleading...he could end his career in doing so, so I find it highly unlikely a worse punishment is what he's trying to avoid.

    I want to state that anyone true mentions to have been co-erced is not Vick...I can't remember her whole post so can't be specific, I'm too tired and hungry to read it and post quotes...it's not necessary because I doubt you are reading much of these posts beyond a sentence or two or quick glance...if you were reading our posts you would know that we are NOT on the side of animal abusers...You wouldn't be missing all of our points like you are...instead you seem to be stuck with posts made two pages ago regarding due process...

    DMX's dogs were not being fed or watered...I haven't run accross any statements made regarding finding dead dogs on the property in this raid...the only other thing they found aside from neglected DOGS is a "cache" of weapons that, at this time, they don't know are legal or not... DMX was also not present and hasn't been present at the home for 2 months or so and a caretaker was responsible for the dogs at the time of the raid... YOU are AGAIN condemning DMX based on the reported fact that the dogs taken were pit bulls... If the dogs weren't pit bulls...I think You'd probably be giving the guy a little bit of a benefit of the doubt as far as involvement in dog fighting...you're assuming on a level not even reported at this point...THANKS to the sensationalism of the reports of Vick's dogs and the "dog fighting" conversations that have been highly publicized... Ving Rame's dogs reportedly attacked and killed someone...NO ONE yelled "dog fighter" or even "animal abuser" at him I believe, because they were mastiff's not pit bulls...

    COME ON people...do you not see what is happening?

    If bad guys go down, that's GREAT...but when people are pointing fingers and condemning someone of an action (fighting dogs and treating them as those fighting Vick's dogs) when NO evidence of such action is available...except the breed of dog involved...there is a problem. ESPECIALLY when that person is a reported "lover of pit bulls"...aren't we all supposed to be standing together on the BSL thing? OR does that only apply when it's near YOUR home...or when it's only involving PET pit bulls...Or maybe that only counts when active legislation is on the boards...

    FIGHTING BSL also includes fighting breed descrimination...that includes looking at facts and not basing opinions on the breed of dog involved...as you have regarding DMX. I do bet he's a neglectful owner...he's already been convicted of neglect...but so far...no one's found evidence of dog fighting on his part, I'm sure they've been watching him since the LAST time he had dogs taken due to neglect since 2002... I wish I had seen the dogs taken, I saw a glimps of two of them and other than being thin and obvioiusly dehydrated...the dogs looked healthy...didn't even have the tell tale "scars"...

    What we should be doing is asking the city or the state of AZ why he was allowed to have dogs at all after having been convicted of neglect and cruelty already!!! Not pointing and asking the FEds to try him for dog fighting because the dogs he neglected were pit bulls.

    Loves-da-pits...I'm really glad I'm not your neighbor...My dogs are well cared for, always have water...but with you as my neighbor I'd be a little frightened that cop would come bust down my door looking for the fighting activity because of all the dogs (wait...Pit bulls) I have...or because they sleep outside. At the moment you really aren't giving me any faith that you wouldn't do something like that...or haven't for that matter. What you don't see is that these actions and your "cheering them on" attitude is only HELPING PETA, HSUS, and ASPCA in riding the country of this breed...if they succeed have any of the rest of you wondered which breed is next?

    Great Danes, English Mastiffs, Husky's, Chows, Dobies, Rottweilers, Akitas, Schnauzers, Malamutes, Sharpei's, Bullmastiff's, Boerboels, GSD's, Cane Corso's, Presa Canarios, English Bulldogs, American Bulldogs and probably MORE have already been affected by BSL throughout this country...and every day that list grows longer...pretty soon the only dogs we can have are Chi's or toothless Chinese Cresteds perhaps...

    Seriously...this media frenzy is ONLY giving amunition to people who are trying to outlaw dogs as pets...pit bulls are just at the top of their to do list... Wish we could AT LEAST agree on THAT fact...instead of making assumptions regarding who a select few on this board wish to stand behind due to comments made regarding due process.

    Sara
     
  3. True_Pits

    True_Pits New Member

    Well I didn't know all those facts when I read the other post but I just know what this guy has talked about and seems to promote it very much, thats why I find it highly possible in his case. He is also one of the main reasons for the young thugs out there doing it who idolize him.
     
  4. True_Pits

    True_Pits New Member

    I think he is probably very much guilty, I never said I thought he was innocent or guilty. The point is that just because some people are guilty it doesn't mean all people are guilty.

    I'm glad to hear that, I think DMX has been fighting dogs for a LONG time! I was just talking to a friend of ours a couple weeks ago about WHY HAS HE NEVER BEEN BUSTED! I'm like its so unfair every song he of his has some dog fighting references and his album GR CH. I have also seen video of his dogs (who didn't look neglected or abused), inside his home living the good life and with his kids. But these are not ALL his dogs, I've seen some of his well taken care of and very nice looking dogs with good conformation but I know that he has far more dogs then the few in his house. So I always wondered how they were kept, what conditions they were in, ect.

    Sara this is the part with you I will have to disagree, a lot of people have money but it doesn't stop them in gambling one way or the other. A lot of people may have small bets and purses on a match just a few $100 but others have a massive amount of money placed on the dogs. One guy I talked to that used to fight his dog, has dogs inside and on the cover of the SDJ and knew a lot of the big league people said one guy walked in a placed $15,000 on his buddy's dog. The match itself was a $50,000 purse. These people obviously have money, thats how they bet in the 1st place. A lot of them have good careers, you'd be surprised the type of people in it. Its all to make more money and just the thrill of possibly losing it. Same reason why rich people gamble tens of thousands on horse and dog racing.

    I didn't know before I wrote the other stuff in regards to DMX, dumb me for not looking it up. I'm not one to jump on the neglected Pit Bulls are fighting dogs like some blind people, but in this case there will likely be grounds. If he hasn't been there then they can charge the caretaker (I've seen it on AP) even though its his property. But he seem very much pro dog fighting and to promote it. He's part of the reason you have these young thugs who out there doing it who idolize him. You can't hold him accountable for their actions but when you hear a super star talking about how cool dog fighting what are they going to do?

    I feel the same way, I kind of wonder that?
     
  5. Sara

    Sara New Member

    Hey True... I also think DMX has been involved in Dog Fighting for awhile...however...the evidence so far hasn't pointed to dog fighting...just neglect so far...and since he got busted for neglect once before he's either VERY good at hiding his fighting habit or he doesn't fight... I've read and seen a lot of people using slang and whatnot to be cool, as though they know dog fighting when they don't...I suppose that's possible but it's disgusting that DMX raps about it... I don't think I've ever even heard a DMX song...LOL...I have a thing against rap...either way...but I suppose it's not surprising that they rap about it...I mean they've been rapping about rape and all kinds of nasty stuff to encourage more tugish behavior out there...been doing since I can remember hearing rap music out there really. But if DMX is fighting dogs I hope they do catch him...I've seen a cribs episode about DMX and they showed some kennels and they had low wide pits in there that looked like they'd been in a scuffle or two...ugly dogs, seriously...

    Also, when I said I don't think Vick gambled on the dogs he owned fighting...I still believe that...but I also believe that THAT was one more thing he would have done in order to keep his ass out of a sling...I definately think he probably benefited monitarily in his dealings with the dogs, but I think he probably made sure it wasn't through actual bets on dog fighting...it's a HUGE offense in the NFL to bet on ANYTHING so I'm sure he's got that base covered x10...obviously he didn't hide the fact that he owned dogs used in fighting...etc...

    But really, I never thought Vick would be coerced into anything...and truly I believe he is pleading guilty to the actions he was responsible for...I don't think he's dodging a bullet, they wouldn't have offered a plea bargain if they had him hook line and sinker (unless maybe he offered to name names)...they'd have made him the example...I think he just managed to slime his way out of it by keeping himself as un-involved as possible... Too bad they can't get some of these guys like they do the mobsters...on rackateering charges or Tax Fraud...wonder if they could with the non-famous filthy rich dog fighters out there...maybe they have... Hmmmm...

    Sara
     
  6. honeybears

    honeybears New Member

    here is the info on DMX< I cant paste the link. they also have pics of dogs that are just skin and bones.

    Cave CREEK, Ariz. -- About a half-pound of suspected illegal narcotics were found at the north Phoenix home of rapper DMX during a search launched by sheriff's deputies on Friday, Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio said.

    Deputies, acting on a tip of animal cruelty, carried out 12 pit bulls in need of immediate medical care, investigators said.
    They said they also found the bodies of three dogs buried in the back yard of the Cave Creek property.


    As usual though it seemd every dog is pit bull. a pic of one of the emaciated dogs looks like the one Sams has
     
  7. True_Pits

    True_Pits New Member

    Yup sounds right Honeybears, every big, tough dog is a "pit bull"

    I thought he also had a mastiff type dog when Sara mentioned that other guy (rames) who had them but I couldn't remember.
     
  8. Sara

    Sara New Member

    Rames has Bandogs too... Wonder if DMX has Bandogs...??? I would bet so. I had read just last night that they found bodies of 3 dogs...jeeesh. You'd think if you had money to spend you'd be able to find someone to take better care of your dogs at least...then again you'd have to value the dogs...still think DMX probably shouldn't be allowed to have THAT MANY dogs at least...considering he's already been in trouble for neglect.

    Whatever though...it's always the dogs that get hurt and the breed involved. No one ever decides to cut it off from the head of the monster... I wonder if they even had a probationary period as far as the ownership of dogs went...in DMX's case... Hmmmm...

    Sara
     

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