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To attack or not to attack?

Discussion in 'Dogs - Pit bull breeds specific' started by BronxthePit, Sep 29, 2004.



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To attack or not to attack?

Poll closed Oct 6, 2004.
  1. I think its wrong to teach your dog to attack on command!

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. Heck , I taught mine how to!

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
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  1. goob

    goob New Member

    If someone wants to train their guardian breed for protection work, more power to 'em. When someone wants to take the very essense of the APBT -the stable, friendly to everyone, wouldn't bite if you beat 'em over the head with a stick temperament selected for by centuries of breeding of only human friendly dogs- I have a real problem with it. The one foothold the breed still has in todays paranoid take it out before it can take you out world is that the breed has been bred to NOT BITE PEOPLE! You take that away, and you're sawing on the last thread keeping this breed from going the way of the dodo (granted, there would no doubt be factions of dedicated people keeping the breed alive, but the GP could pretty much forget about owning one). When your ill trained guard dog does bite someone and leaves massive damage because it was never taught how to properly bite and hold someone, everyone else will be the ones scattering to try and convince the media and polititians that the "guard dog" pits really are in the minority.

    Nothing makes me more annoyed to see people wandering around with dogs that make empty (luckily) threat displays, bragging about their superb guard dog, who'd probably pee themselves on the spot and run home tail tucked if ever confronted with a real threat.

    If I want protection, I'll arm myself, and keep my stable, friendly APBT as it is.
     
  2. Sara

    Sara New Member

    Goob Your post is exactly the reason I specified that the APBT trained to this kind of thing should be trained by a TRUE professional...IF EVER... This breed in particular is not a bite and release or bite and hold breed by nature... It is prey driven throught it's bite and therefore is more likely to bite and SHAKE...and cause severe damage to the victim of the bite...to train the dog to do it correctly would take a responsible and experienced trainer of this type of dog... Guardian breeds have a different view on biting and tend to be weaker in the bite itself and less likely to "shake" it's victim rather they'll HOLD or they'll DROP the victim if the victim is done "threatening"...

    I'm with you Goob...guardian breeds have at it...but APBT's and other prey driven fighter/working dogs should very well leave it alone...I'm not criticizing those that train their APBT's...unless they're joe schmoe and not working through an experienced trainer...
     
  3. Angie

    Angie New Member

    I agree with goob
     
  4. True_Pits

    True_Pits New Member

    That is a good post Goob. They are bred to be friendly why make them otherwise? Its really puzzling to me, if youhave an APBT you have the perfect dog. A safe, stable, super friendly dog that loves people, but one who will protect you when you actually need it. No training required so whats the point? The "satellite man" is here today to install and he had to walk in the backyard to find an area suitable for the satellite. I wasn't outside, but watched through the backdoor. My dogs didn't do anything as usual, Santana just sat up and watched him for a minute realized he was no threat and layed backdown. The others never came out of their dog houses, I don't think Ven knew anyone was here or he would be jumping for joy and wanting attention. Like the time some people came and picked up the items they'd bought ealier on the yard sale. They walked right over to my dogs are and were talking about them, Ven was so excited.
     
  5. nakoma_star

    nakoma_star New Member

    my dogs are not trained to attack on command but are trained to protect our house * points to the big BEWARE OF GAURD DOG NO TRESPASSING sign*
     
  6. BronxthePit

    BronxthePit New Member

    nakoma : :-k :0020:

    goob : :-({|=


    Dont tresspass/break into my house/try to harm me or my wife and you have NOTHING to worry about. If your not a suspicious acting person my dogs love you to death..if your are...THEN you have something to worry about! They LOVE kids, and are delicate with babies. Of course I'd never leave them alone with kids/babies NO MATTER HOW MUCH I TRUST THEM THEY ARE STILL ANIMALS.but they dont have agression problems , nor are they 'fear biters'. Think what you want. You get several warnings to walk away/back off....if you dont heed those warnings then thats your own fault...YOU"LL be the one running away with your tail tucked.

    You other folks might have the type of dog that TP posted about in another post...you know the one that sat there while the house got robbed.....but i dont and it seems like a few others of us dont ethier.

    my dogs are taught not to initiate anything 'in public'. esp on their own want. they require the OK first.


    As for whoever said that they would just arm themselves. Thats not going to get you anywhere ethier. Their are federal laws that PROTECT robbers...even Murders in that case. ....i've heard of more cases of deviants sueing for being shot and or maimed because they broke into someones house and WON , than i have of people being attacked by dogs because they broke in. There are laws that say WHEN you can shoot and HOW you can shoot someone who breaks into your house. If they turn to flee your property ..guess what? You can no longer shoot them, If you do, then YOU would be prosecuted for attempted murder with the use of EXCESSIVE FORCE, and not allowing the assalent to flee the scene. Face it..those who break the law have more laws to protect them than the victims.It'd be easier to win a case because your guard dog attacked because the person broke into your house or attacked you. But then again i guess that depends on where you live and how messed up/backward the local government is .
     
  7. spencerpits

    spencerpits New Member

    Not if it's a pit bull.
     
  8. True_Pits

    True_Pits New Member

    Thats true spencerpits, but it can still happen with any other breed. I think it would depend a little on your location, but I've heard enough stories about criminals sueing over dog bites. I read a whole article on it. Criminals can sue just the same for the dog bite as they can a gun. I would hope people don't believe they can't or won't just to think they're in the clear, criminals do have TOO MANY rights to protect them when they are doing wrong. People who have a trained guard dog were even more likely to lose if it could be proven the dog was trained to attack on command or guard the property. Even though to me properly trained dogs are probably not only more reliable in terms of not running away, but more safe then the average dog who's just "naturally protective". These were cases from all over the country in the article.

    Most probably do on this board as the average Pit Bull wouldn't care much. I know they'd protect me, not so sure about my house, maybe Santana would?? Don't know. They've been bred to be too friendly and don't have much protective instinct or territorial drive. How do you know how your pup would react? Will it grow up to be a normal APBT and not do a thing to a robber? I know you have an adult boxer/pit mix, Boxers are protective of their property and mine would have never let anyone come in the home. They would have had to kill her had they wanted in. Even if your dog is crossed it can exhibit Boxer traits, thats the one thing that makes crossing pit bulls with guard breeds so dangerous. They get the guard breed instincts with the mind and will of a Pit Bull. That does for people who don't know how to handle/train them or those who WANT a KILLER dog, not a well mannered or trained dog, just an aggressive time bomb. Now its not bad at all if a person IS doing wrong and your dog does something about it IMO, including robbing you, even though APBTs are bred to be people friendly, well theres a difference between mean/aggressive and truly protecting your family and home. Some might protect the home and they are still the same friendly, socialized dog. Its just unfortunatly they have a lot of bad media and can do severe damage. Coming home and seeing your Pit Bull has killed and maimed a robber, well might be a relief, but then you have a dead body and the media will make it out to be a vicious killer pit bull story and you could be sued by the family. Not to mention the dog being put down. One of the cases that was won by the criminal, the dog never even bit him, the dog jumped on him and penned him, held him whatever. But he was sueing because it was "traumatic" and he was "injured", yeah a few scatches and bruises. Its crazy and its not fair at all what these criminals can get away with!!! Its a scary world we live in. :(

    There needs to be some laws passed NOT allowing criminals to do these things. Some type of legislation that will help protect the true victims. Also the animals who are just doing their "duty', they're are best friends and we protect eachother, like a pack or family.
     
  9. goob

    goob New Member

    Sorry to say that I'm not much of a musician, that'd sound more like a cat with tail caught in door than anything else :lol:

    I have one APBT who probably would bite someone entering my house without someone home, another who would greet them enthusiastically and show them all the spiffy things we own, then probably try to leave with them. Either one could be easily dispatched with a gun, so I don't really count much on them as good home security.

    Did you not say above that they're animals? Seeing as animals do have minds of their own, there's always the possibility that your teaching could fail and leave you with a nice lawsuit on your hands.

    Considering that in many areas, use of a dog trained for protection or guard work is considered use of a weapon, you'd be just as liable sending your dog in to attack someone as you would shooting them.

    And, seeing as I was the one who said I would arm myself if I feared for my safety, I'll elaborate. If shooting (or otherwise maiming) someone who attacks me saves my life and gets me a bit of jailtime or sued, better than the alternative. If someone attacks me while I'm out walking my (hypothetical) protection trained dog, and either kills my dog or my dog- for whatever reason- currs out, leaving me to fend for myself, I'm no better off than if I had nothing. Actually, if I lived in an area that I feared for my safety enough to take measures of a protection trained dog, or gun, I'd probably be moving, but that's beside the point. If I was going to rely on my dog to protect me, I sure wouldn't do a halfassed "home job" on its training, nor would I choose a breed who's temperament depicts the opposite behavior that I desired... how many people that you know train Golden Retrievers for guard work?

    Worst case scenario with poorly trained guard dogs... this happened in an area considering a pit bull ban, you can guess what the politians are thinking now I bet: http://www.pulse24.com/News/Top_Story/2 ... 7/page.asp
     
  10. Angie

    Angie New Member

    Wouldn't it be self defense?
     
  11. Angie

    Angie New Member

    Is this a staffy or a Pit Bull?
    How would I know the difference?

    [​IMG]
     
  12. spencerpits

    spencerpits New Member

    If I were to have guessed from the photo alone, I would actually have guessed SBT, but after looking at the video, I'd say it is an APBT.
     
  13. BronxthePit

    BronxthePit New Member

    Oh I agree, but frankly YOU and your gun could be dispatched with a gun if you wanted to get technical. No body is really 'safe' , but i would think growling barking dogs would deter a devient...i dont know i've never tried to break into someones house before :) ..but i do know when approaching someones house and i hear a deep bark , im a little bit cautious. But I think we're digressing ....

    yes I did mention they were animals, the reference however was toward dogs when LEFT ALONE. :lol: hahahaha thats broad...Theres always a possibility of any and everything happening..theres a possibility your kind gentle dog(the one that would give the thiefs a tour) might snap and attack someone elses dog..and then you get sued....so yeah anything can happen.

    "Considering that in many areas, use of a dog trained for protection or guard work is considered use of a weapon, you'd be just as liable sending your dog in to attack someone as you would shooting them. "

    In that regard I was speaking of someone breaking into your house and being attacked by your dog. But yes sending your dog to attack someone out in public would be considered assault. unless however you attempted to flee the situation and could not. Then its self defense.


    "Actually, if I lived in an area that I feared for my safety enough to take measures of a protection trained dog...."

    I dont know about everyone else but i never said i primarily relied on my dogs for protection, hell i'd never soley rely on a gun ethier, those misfire/backfire, and JAM.( I guess we're all S.O.L :lol: )

    I'm not to sure what planet/alternative universe you live in. No where is truly safe. Usally the most damage is done to communities that gave no regard to safety/protection because they thought they were safe.Thats where crooks usally target the most...people with false sense of security. Like that older lady in florida...who her and everyone in her community just left their front doors open all day (and didn't lock them at night) that is until that young punk came in and raped her.....thats the day those doors stayed closed. it's stupid people/communities like that, where children are kidnapped out of their own yard. now THAT sickens me. No where is safe.

    With that I think we get to the point. And when I say this I mean anyone....but wth are you to say whats "halfassed". Absolutely no one. I and plenty of others have detered harm from coming to us and our own ,with our "halfassed" training...so obviously its not that "halfassed". But then I guess you people who live on the moon must have higher standards in that perfect paradise that you live in.

    People fear the unknown.People are going to have prejeduce against APBT's and anything that so much resembles them no matter what.it's already been proven that there are just as much if not more attacks with other breeds than APBT's but does that/has that changed anything?? NO!!. Any built muscular dog over 30 pounds, is going to intimidate people and make them cross the street and teach their kids that , that dog is vicious. There could be NO more PBT attacks PERIOD and that would not change anything. Everyone's in such a frenzy about this sort of stuff. just accept it! people are going to be afriad of your dog until they get to know it! Until PBT's/AST's as a breed loose thier musclar frame...loose jaw strength..loose speed..grow long hair and has a international mascot named LASSIE...things are NOT going to change people. Fight locally! by all means fight these stupid polticians who are just trying to win old peoples votes! but get over this conquering the world with pitbull love crap!!!!! its not going to happen!!! They like others are a strong powerful devoted breed with the potentional to kill a human..They are going to be feared! THATS THE BOTTOM LINE.

    YOUR RIGHT!!! Have you ever heard of a Golden Retriever/Lab killing a human?!? NOOO! who the hell would buy their child a dog with that potential(unless you are a PBT lover)???!! or frankly want their child around a dog like that? Thats the real reason they want them banned. So unless all the breeders start watering down the true APBT's traits as mentioned above nothings going to change. Regardless if "joe smoe" does his "halfassed" job in training/enhancing his dogs protection skills.
     
  14. Angie

    Angie New Member

    Gezzz... Get a hold of yourself!
    :shock:
     
  15. Piper's Mom

    Piper's Mom New Member

    I'm with Angie... :shock:
     
  16. BronxthePit

    BronxthePit New Member

    im sorry folks :? but i take offense when someone refers to my training as "halfassed" :x , and blames (whether directly or indirectly) people like me for why pits have a bad rep. Look at the real big picture.
     
  17. Angie

    Angie New Member

    Im sorry but I think that if you train a dog to attack on command or protect or anything like that (no matter what the breed), IMO, it just INCREASES the chances that there COULD be an 'accident'.

    That is MY OPINION.
     
  18. BronxthePit

    BronxthePit New Member

    :shock: hey no! dont get me wrong im not blasting anyone for their opinion. and YES i agree, that does increase the chances., but thats like me telling redcoats that the dogs they breed is halfassed, or they aren't what pits should look like , wth am i to make that comment?? NO BODY :p prob should've just ignored the comment but hey....
     
  19. spencerpits

    spencerpits New Member

    No offense, but who are you to say that your training isn't "half-assed"? I don't know you, or your training methods, so I obviously can't comment on them, but I'm still in agreement with the fact that if you insist on doing protection work with your APBT (really any breed, for that matter), you should hire a professional. Again, no offense - but if you expected to like what everyone had to say in response to your post, perhaps you shouldn't post on a public forum. Either that, or don't wear your heart on your sleeve. It's fine to defend your opinion/views, but try not to blow up. Play nice, everybody!
     
  20. BronxthePit

    BronxthePit New Member

    sp: :?: :!: whaaa? thats just dumb, it doesn't even make sense.

    thats the point , no one knows what each does...even if they did, whos to say that they do h.a job of training.

    now its just getting silly :roll:
     
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