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WARNING-Read this if looking for a pup!

Discussion in 'Dogs - small breeds (toy) specific' started by ntengwall, Oct 2, 2004.

  1. ntengwall

    ntengwall New Member

    Ok...I don't even know where to start! I thought I had found the perfect shih tzu breeder on Thursday and was very excited to talk with her. I found her on breeders.net
    Well, I have had quite the experience with this breeder over the past 2 days! Here's the story-
    I called her on Thursday afternoon to talk to her (she didn't return my e-mail which should have been a warning sign!). I told her all about myself and where I lived (and even mentioned that I was so happy to have found a breeder in Washinton DC). I found it a bit weird that she didn't ask me any questions, but I figured I covered a lot of answers in my intro to her. We talked about litters and she said she was going to have one due right around the time I wanted. It all sounded perfect! She said I should put down the deposit since winter gets really busy. I told her I was in the car and would e-mail her the deposit when I got home later that day (through Pay Pal). When I got home, I looked around her site a bit more and decided to go ahead with it (I will tell you about the warning signs that I now realize are very clear).
    I called her and told her that I had just filled out the application and sent the $ and she sounded great. I asked if I could visit and she said definetly. So that was that and I walked around all Thurs night so excited that I had just paritally bought my puppy!! I even saw a man walking a shih tzu at the park who was 4 months old and thought it must be a sign :)
    Fast forward to today....I did a google search for her site since I couldn't remember the exact address and was very suprised to see the breeder listed in NORTH CAROLINA! When I clicked on it, it was the very same website with the very same available puppies! Now I was confused and worried. I called her immediately and got no answer. I left her a message but didn't say anything about the confusion...just that I had a few more questions for her. No call back.
    I waited until after 2 pm and then called back again. This time she was there. I told her that I was confused and asked where exactly she is located. She said in NC. I asked her why she is listed at breeders.net as being in Washinton DC then. She gave me some BS answer about how she also has a house in Wash and they must have picked up her # there. Then, very fast, she said, "I can give you a refund". I said I wasn't necessarily sure I wanted one yet and then went on to ask a few more questions. Her answers sounded great (no kennel, pups inside, mom and dad there on premises...). She said she thought I was about 3 1/2 hours from her and that she would love for me to come visit the dogs. This put my mind a ease for awhile. I told her I would definetly want to come visit in the next few weeks and could she e-mail me her exact address so I could Map Quest it. She said ok. Well, I got home and no e-mail addy. So I decided to dig around some more on the internet. I never really found anything, but there was a listing for a breeder by the same name but with pomeranians. That didn't totally freak me out since she said there were 6 siblings who all are in the business. BUT...here's what did it for me. I went to her guest book and started reading all the entries (22 pages of them!). Most were jsut interested lookers wanting more info on her pups, but there were quite a few supposed past customers in there too. I decided to grab a few of their e-mails and try to e-mail them with questions (have you been there? what is your pup like? ...) Well, ALL 5 e-mail addresses bounced back!!! I also noticed how similar a few of the entries were..."we got a pup from them in 2003 and love her so much we are getting another..."
    This was the last straw for me!! I called her immediately and told her that I Map Quested her and she was at least 5 hours from me and that I talked it over with my husband and we think it is just too far of a drive for us to make several times. She was very fast to say OK and told me she would just refund my $ through Pay Pal. So here I sit waiting to see the $ in my account. I can't believe I was soooo stupid! I guess this is a good lesson to learn early on in my search for a pup huh? Oh yeah...some of the red flags that should have told me something was up---No pics of humans on their site--no families picking up their new pups, no pics of the breeders, no pics of the male dogs... I also thought she was very fast to offer back my deposit--almost like she just wanted to get rid of me. And the explanation on the breeders.net site thing just didn't make sense. She had to have given them her info to be put under Washington...plus the phone numbers were different! That was another clue...they were all 1-800 numbers.
    Anyway, I feel physically drained and am hoping that I see my $ again! What if she doesn't refund it?? Clearly I have a great argument since she claimed to be somewhere she is not, but who knows if I would ever see that $ again.
    I am posting this so that no one has to go through the same thing and I now know that I will not be buying a pup unless I see the place and dogs first--not just on the internet! Anyone can have a great website. I would also not hesitate to use a place where others have gotten dogs if they have had good experiences.
    LESSON LEARNED (possibly the hard way!).
  2. 4Dogsihave

    4Dogsihave New Member

    I am sorry you went through this experiance. I am a little leary about giving anyone money before a product but that is just me. I can understand needing a deposit before promising a puppy to someone but unfortuantly those bad breeders discourage people from the good ones. Just dont lose hope you will find a good breeder just be carefull and ask lots of questions. Good luck!
  3. puttin510

    puttin510 New Member

    Hopefully you get your money back, if not at least it was not the full amount. I would get to know some of the people on the dog forums, ask who has shitzu's ask many questions. This is a great way to figure out who to go to. i bet there are shitzy forums out there. I will do a search to see. Sorry about your experience.
  4. PooGirl13

    PooGirl13 New Member

    I'm so sorry that you had that experience, Nicole! I hope that you get your deposit back.. I would definetely keep fighting on that one (you can even get Paypal involved, I believe).

    You WILL find a reputable breeder out there, they do exist so don't lose hope :D I think I gave you my breeder info and I would recommend her to anyone (I did visit her home etc.).

    Anyway, keep looking... they are out there! So, we've decided on a Shih-Tzu?!?! Woohoo! :eek:
  5. MonsterBailey

    MonsterBailey New Member

    hehe... "we've".... :)
  6. PooGirl13

    PooGirl13 New Member

    I didn't mean, me, of course! :m39:
  7. MyBabyShihPoo

    MyBabyShihPoo New Member

    This is precisely why doing some MAJOR research into breeders is so incredibly important!!! :y_the_best:

    I'm terribly sorry you had to learn the hard way, but at least you were able to catch this "breeder" before you got a puppy from them!!!

    Like PooGirl said, keep on searching, there are wonderful breeders out there, you just have to look long and hard for them! :D
  8. maltepoolover

    maltepoolover New Member

    Sorry this breeder was so bad ,saw your post on another board .I hope it gets better for you and you get your money back .
  9. doggielover

    doggielover New Member

    I am sooo sorry you had to go through this, I am also looking for a shih tzu breeder and think I have found the perfect one. I am visiting her tommorow and will definately let you guys know how it goes, all this info definately helps!
  10. puttin510

    puttin510 New Member

    Yes let her know how it goes.
  11. Jas

    Jas New Member

    Its very unfortunate you had to go through this. That's the hard part about the internet, what you read is not always what you get and often one never knows who they are dealing with. Its horrible that breeders can be so dishonest or that they breed as a source of income. With so many homeless animals and need for rescue, breeding should never be one's occupation. Reputable breeders should live for their dogs not off their dogs. From that site I counted 6 litters in less than a 3 month period!!!!!! Sickening. Reputable breeders do not breed that many litters even in a year! That's just one breed, who knows if they have other breeds too. Multiple litters and multiple breeds is a huge RED flag. In this day who needs to breed that much?? It's awful to visit these sites where puppies are always available and breeders are listed all over the internet to sell puppies. Nothing short of a puppy mill. Often the hardest part about finding a breeder is that many breeders people contact are extremely nice and friendly, they seem genuinely concerned about their pups and care about their placement. They sound like great people and could be great friends and often are but people have to remember even if you really like a breeder on a personal level it doesn't always mean they are reputable, or are breeding for the right reasons. As someone once said, "nothing is more terrible than ignorance in action". It comes down to looking beyond and supporting a breeder who is ethical.

    In your case I'm so glad to see you did some checking and found out more info, it helped you see this person for what they really are. Glad you shared your story, perhaps it will help someone else who doesn't know any better. For anyone looking it's important no matter who or where you get the dog from always ask to visit the premises - sometimes its worth flying to visit, ask for vet references - call their vet and contact other breeders who breed the same dogs, contact the parent club and ALWAYS ask if the sire & dam have been health tested. People claim certain breeds or mixes are healthier, but the truth is unless breeders are testing their breeding animals for genetic diseases & conditions before breeding them there is NO truth to that claim. Testing is more than a vet check it involves using a specialist or vet to x-ray, blood test, give an eye exam etc and submitting their results to a registry like OFA www.offa.org where a buyer can also visit the site and see that the dogs in the pedigree are listed and it shows what they were tested for. An animal can be a carrier as well so they might not be affected by the disease but if its there it could show up in a generation or two.

    Well that was a lot more than i intended to say ;) (and nothing directed at anyone, it's just important info!!!) Hope things work out for you!!

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