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What can we do to Right the Wrong?

Discussion in 'Dogs - Pit bull breeds specific' started by pitlovern, Apr 8, 2007.

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Should new Pit Bull owners be made to take a class on being a responsible Pit Owner?

  1. Yes

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. No

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. pitlovern

    pitlovern New Member

    I love my Pit Bull and I want to do something that will change all the negative views when it comes to this breed! Insurance companies now have the right to refuse coverage to a customer (home owner) if he/she owns a Pit Bull! You can't live in an apartment if your a Pit Bull owner! No matter if your Pit has never done a thing to anyone or another animal! Who gives these people the right to DISCRIMINATE against a member of my family? Thoes same ignorant people whould have a cow if they couldn't get insurance because the have a child, or rent an apartment if they have a child. These people are so narrow minded an unwilling to even pick up a book to learn about this misunderstood breed of dog. I also want to touch on the horror stories that have unfortunately happend to some children and adults, and I speak from experience NO DOG NO MATTER the BREED bites for NO REASON! And NO ONE can make me BELIEVE or even raise a thought in my mind when it comes to that!!!
     
  2. Sara

    Sara New Member

    I have to tell ya I vote no on this...simply because we are in the USA where we do have rights. I don't want some governmental power to require new pit bull owners to take a class...if that's required then all new dog owners should have to take a class...and in that case...perhaps all new parents should take a class...or maybe if you think you want a kid take a test and then be denied or passed... What gives them the right to make me take a class???? NOTHING.

    If a breeder wants to require that then by all means...do it...but mandatory for even a state is wrong.

    Sara
     
  3. someday

    someday New Member

    I agree with Sara..government regulation is taking away freedom, not granting more. I would love to see breeders have stricter requirments for new owners and offer more education.
     
  4. pitlovern

    pitlovern New Member

    You must say no?

    I beg to differ with you on this. If you are a new "parent" not knowing what to expect, when to expect it, and the correct way to deal with the solving of what was unexpected, then mistakes will be made. Do you really think a new Pit Bull owner knows what to expect of their new family member? Do you think that they could reconize a potential and more even dangerous situation before it happens? Or Do you think they would just know what to do to keep it from happening? I can't speak for all but I can say honestly I was CLUELESS! I would let him do things as a puppy not knowing that what you let them do as a puppy they will do as an adult. And a whole slew of other things that I wasn't aware of. But if I had to do it again bet my life I would and things will be diffrent this time around, due to something called EDUCATING myself, along with helping others understand why it's so important to know what to expect, when to expect it and how to prevent the un-expected! Don't you think that's being a resposible Pit owner?

    Being in the USA, and having certain rights (that protect who) have nothing to do with the world wide problem Pit Bulls and their Owners face everyday! And because of "certain rights"(that do not protect certain breeds) some states have the RIGHT to come and take your Pit and destroy it on a 1st offense no matter how small the scuffle or nip your neighbors kid recieves from simply playing fetch with your Pit. I wouln't want that to happen to my Pit! :cry:
     
  5. pitlovern

    pitlovern New Member

    Who would govern the breeders?

    Would you buy a new car and not know how to drive? I personally would want to know how to drive first!
     
  6. Sara

    Sara New Member

    You select states to live in that afford you the rights that you want...thus living free.

    I live in Wyoming where we can still carry guns around as long as we're not going to a church, school or bar...and as long as they can see it...no gun control...we don't even have to register a gun...

    Mistakes get made all the time in parenthood and dog ownership. One thing that would happen by making people take classes when getting a pit bull is that it makes the breed even more seperate from the general "canine" specieis....it's not that different. Dane owners should have to take a class in that case... how many great danes end up in rescue because they can't keep the dog of the bed or couch or themselves...merely because they didn't know to keep the puppy dane off the bed, couch and themselves... It's a normal dog ownership thing to have to deal with. nobody's born with the knowledge of everything but we are born with the ability to learn...the ability to find out where to learn from and who to learn from and whatnot...this is our freedom at work...all of us...

    Making people not have pits is also a way of taking freedoms from us...just a different degree of such. If you want to learn you have to find out how to learn...there's no reason to make someone take some class...it's not going to make a difference because most of the pits that cause the problems are owned illegally or by those who regularly break the law...

    On another note...learning about your own laws in your community help to keep your dog safe (no matter the breed)...in my State it's a one bite law... My dog bites, for ANY reason, they put my dog to sleep PERIOD... One of my favorite quotes... "life is not a series of problems to be solved but of mysteries to be lived"... Ya gotta live it to learn it... Laws that punish the owner rather than the dog or breed is what is going to help the problem...not laws imposed on ALL owners responsible or not....

    Sara
     
  7. Sara

    Sara New Member

    As an owner it's great to educate but there should not be a law requiring it. I'm all for educating people about the breed totally but to make it a law or requirement of some kind, legally, it's wrong...period.

    Dogs are not cars.

    Sara
     
  8. pitlovern

    pitlovern New Member

    I think that my point

    I live in Arizona and we too can tote around a gun. The only diffrence is that u can't conceal it, unless you take a class for the license to carry a conceald weapon. But thats not the reason I moved to this state. I moved because of my pit. California is slowly "banning" the pit bull breed. And you can guess why. No education and the media having a field day with the kaos and distruction that has been "unleashed" by pit owners saying, "I don't know why my pit jumped the fence and mauled that kid", as they are taking the dog away to be destroyed, and the kid off to recieve 266 stiches in his face, and the clueless owner being sued for countless $'s, now adding to the outrageous statistics, and making it EVEN harder to own a Pit Bull. Do you think education prior to owning a Pit Bull can highten awareness before something like this could happen?

    Dog laws don't govern things as leaving your dog unattended on your property, or how high your front yard fence should be, or what it should be made from if you own a pit. I don't think it would be unconstitional to have some type of knowledge prior to owning a dog that has the reputation of being a "danger" to the public, and the owner.
     
  9. True_Pits

    True_Pits New Member

    Re: You must say no?

    My vote would be HELL NO and I feel its impending on my personal rights. Some people discriminate and thats the problem! We need to change THAT and not punish the innocent Pit Bull owners. Which is baiscally what you would be supporting if they are required to take a class! Outragous. I would fight something like this and any other BSL. Which is what it is.

    Its called EDUCATING yourself, which you seem to agree. its up to the new owner to be responsible. All the irresponsible Pit owners wouldn't take the class, even if it were required by law no more then they obey any other BSL or ordinance.

    This is true of any new dog parent of anybreed, not just Pit Bulls and it would be their fault for not knowing what to do and learning first.

    If they don't then they shouldn't own the dog. I don't want to be harsh, but if people were not so lax in dog ownership (of all breeds) we wouldn't have near the problems we do. It shouldn't take a class for people to be smart responsible people, sad.

    I would like to know what you are reffering to. I find people believing Pit Bulls are "dangerous" is far from the truth. Most Pit Bulls are like most other dogs, they do have their breed traits and of course bloodline/breeding goes into making the dog but they are generally NOT a dangerous breed.

    Again what is IT? Give an example.

    Thats unfortunate but your fault for not learning about a breed of dog beforehand. Lots of people do this, but not just with Pit Bulls so why are we singling them out? I've seen many breeds of dogs uncontrollable. From destructive, nipping, constanct jumping on people, barking, to out right dominance aggressive and attacks from all sorts of breeds.

    This is common dog sense! Anyone should know this before any breed, again not just PIT BULLS! This is true of all dogs.

    Such as what? Dog things in general or Pit Bull specific. So far I haven't seen much to support Pits only.

    I agree EDUCATING yourself. Not being required to take a class. I think that is being responsible, education and of course helping others.

    One should research DOGS in GENERAL, behavior and such. They should read dog books and dog training books. They should ask other Pit owners questions about the breed and their experiences. They should ask their breeders questions but on top of that their breeder should TELL THEM in the first place about the breed and offer printed materials with info if the person is a 1st time Pit owners. Thats all being responsible. This is really when aquiring any breed for the 1st time, it would be helpful in all cases.

    But above all none of this matches experience, you can talk to every pit owners and read every book but until you've owned a few yourself you won't have the same knowledge and experience which is true of anything, including parenting. You have to gain the knowledge maybe to be a better more responsible owner but none of it will match experience.

    I've driven many types of cars and was never required to take a class on it. I've driven small cars, sedans, mini vans, pick ups and suvs and pulled a trailor. None of which I had to take a class to learn how to drive that specific type of vehicle which is what is being proprosed with required classes for a certain type of dog.


    Also who is going to teach this class?????? That is what I'd like to know? Some person who hasn't the slightest idea about Pit Bulls? Someone who has the wrong ideas? Some professional wacko trainer? A self claimed expert? A human society no it all who knows nothing? Some goverment paid official with the wrong ideas?
     
  10. DeLaUK

    DeLaUK New Member

    Re: You must say no?

    I voted yes but then again I think anyone and everyone who has a dog or is planning on having a dog should take tests to prove that they have a clue what they are getting themselves into. I definately would not limit this to Pit Bull owners but to ALL breeds and mixed breeds.

    The way the laws have worked in Germany....I dont totally agree with them but when you think of how many dogs are euthanized in the US every year dont you think that by bringing laws in to cover everything from breeding to selling to owning a dog would make the responsible dog owners and breeders feel better about what they are doing. In Germany, while some of the laws arent too popular the responsible breeders and owners are happy they are in place.

    There should be laws because obviously too many people are not acting responsibly, laws are what come into place when the irresponsible people mess things up and mess things up and then mess things up even more despite efforts to make them see sense, if people cant be trusted to do the right thing then guaranteed the government will step in for the 'good of the general public' (in this case its got almost everything to do with dog attacks, the general public should be protected, the government has an obligation to protect 'its people'), no its not right or fair on the responsible owners but is there really that much choice.

    personally I dont like the idea of anyone telling me which dog I can or cant have or telling me that because my dog is s certain size or breed it has to be line and muzzle tested but then again Im not blind or ignorant to what is going on 'thanks' to irresponsible dog owners and 'breeders', the laws....at least in germany....may not be the best thing as far as the people there are concerned but its vastly cut down the amount of dogs in shelters and hearing about dog attacks is not common at all. The laws have worked in favor of the dogs and isnt that what really matters.

    All that said, I think the laws should cover all breeds, not just one or two.
     
  11. pitlovern

    pitlovern New Member

    You must say no

    Diffrent breeds of dogs require diffrent things. But my focus is on Pit Bulls! Don't get me wrong I'm in no way attempting to show discrimination of ANY KIND! This topic is "What Can We Do to Right the Wrong", Not to discriminate on one type of breed. There are so many precautions that I personally take to protect my dog because I learned the hard way because I didn't know what Dog Agression was. Or how to break up a dog fight, or to train a dog around distractions, and ALWAYS look out for the dummy who has his dog off leash in a public park as his dog is running toward your Dog Agressive Pit as he's yelling "My dog is cool, its' ok!" My Pit is NOT cool with other male dogs. I'm not seeking to Discriminate once again, I believe truly that if there was an offer made to me at the time when I got my Pit Big Pun, being a new parent Damn straight I would have taken that class!! Because having no knowledge about Pits can be a disaster waiting to happen!!

    Let me add I have been sued as a pit owner and I won because of learning!! When I can "read" my dog and know what his next action is I'm not only protecting myself and my dog, I'm also protecting the Pit Bull breed and trying to do my part to try and change the DISTORTED images made by the media. When I watch the news it turns my stomach that about 95% of the dog attacks that they cover have something to do with a Pit Bull or a Pit Bull mix. Do you ever find out why it happend? Do you ever hear that it could have been prevented? You will hear that the Dog was destroyed!

    I love my Pit and I love the Pit Bull breed. And not wanting to do something to help new owners understand the great responsibility that comes along with this breed, doesn't sit well with me. I understand that you can't make anyone take a class or read a book about the Pit Bull breed if it's a law or not. But for the few that would want to learn before they get a pit I feel that I've helped (in a small way) the way law makers create new laws and protect the Pit Bull breed for my niece and nephew to enjoy now and when they are grown!

    PUNISH THE DEED NOT THE BREED!!![/b]
     
  12. Sara

    Sara New Member

    That's Germany and the UK in general which is still a Monarchy by and large... the US is a Democratic Republic which leaves us free to make our own choices...a law requiring a class for ownership of a dog etc...is just too much...as is most gun control laws...laws banning abortion etc...America doesn't work that way and folks who think it should ought to find another place to live...JMO...I understand your thoughts DelaUK...but I just don't agree with them at all...

    I'm sorry...,but you say that now...obviously you didn't say that then...if you had thought that perhaps you learn about the breed of dog you were getting (there are plenty of other breeds of dogs who have aggression towards other animals/dogs/intruders) you'd have picked up one of the HUNDREDS of books out there on the breed of dog you acquired...you'd have asked about the breed and educated yourself about the breed using MANY of the resources ALREADY OUT THERE BEFORE you got the dog...THAT is responsible dog ownership and honestly it's people who don't take the time to do the above with ANY breed of dog that causes the problems for EVERYONE! WHY do dogs end up in shelters??? 99% it's folks who skipped learning about the breed of dog they got before grabbing up the cute puppy they HAD to have...

    When you're watching the news you're hearing uneducated people naming off a breed of dog in association with the accident in general as a "pit bull"...not a proper American Pit Bull Terrier which only means that the witnesses of the attack viewed the dog as a pit bull...TYPE dog...chow is also another name you hear at times...which also does not differentiate between a Chow or a chow TYPE dog... NO MATTER THE BREED the dog attack is, like all other news stories, sensationalized...by no other fault than the media's...not the dog's fault, not the owner's fault...the MEDIA...

    It's great that you want to educate and help educate, that's an asset but you seem to be forgetting that there are SO many places people can learn about a breed of dog (pits or any other) that a law is redundant and for the few who do want to learn...they usually find the outlets of knowledge out there and enable themselves to learn...it's called MOTIVATION...which whether it's born out of necessity (as you learned when you were sued) or through a desire to simply learn before buying...is NECESSARY for all pet owners to possess...and you can't take a class to get it...experience is what fuels the motivation to learn...nothing more...class or not...
     
  13. pitlovern

    pitlovern New Member

    RE when will things change

    I can see that this to me is starting to sound like I take care of my Pit and thats all that matters. Let the other new owner make mistakes. Who cares? So what if the laws become more stricter, so what if I have to move because I own a Pit Bull, so what they can take and destroy my Pit because of its breed. You think that just because your Pit has no "record" and you are the responsible Pit owner thats going to make a diffrence?

    I'm a responsible Pit owner and I'm sick and tired of being "punished" along with others because of the lack of knowledge. For some people it's to late when a problem occurs. BUT if that person had some knowledge things would have been diffrent!
     
  14. True_Pits

    True_Pits New Member

    So you have learned through experience. You didn't know about dog aggression? Who's fault is that? You should have learned all of what you didn't know before. Maybe you know that but would a class really have helped?

    You would have taken it? So you are saying this would be opinional then? Because if it is a required class then their is no option about it and you have had to take it and thats not an opportunity thats being forced.

    If it was an option for you to have learned when you got your dog you think you would have taken it? Then what stopped you? You had so many options to learn before/right after getting your dog and you didn't take any of them and didn't learn. I'm not saying you are a bad owner or don't care, but you are saying now in hindsight that you would have taken the class if it was available and do you honestly believe that? If you didn't use the other resources? There are so many, breeders, other owners, BOOKS, it is so easy to pick up a book and read it much easier and less effort then a class but how many people don't? Same goes with internet? It would have been just as easy for you to research on the internet. You could have read webpages or went on a forum like this one and said Hey I'm a new Pit Owner what can I expect like so many others do.

    You can do this through EXPERIENCE, I'm sorry but no class can teach that. You can take a class on dog behavior and Pit Bulls and they might be able to give you a general idea of how to read the dog and its signs, but one dog may also be different then another. It would certainly be helpful to know these signs but I think you need a little experience with your dog and the breed in general to have these down. No doubt class would help just as much as again reading and researching would. Reading, classes, research are all 2nd to experience.

    Thats not going to end with classes. Media needs stories. They will always blow something out of proportion or even right out lie. I've seen a couple other attack stories that were full of lies and a totally different story then the truth about other breeds and I've seen the same with Pit Bulls. One attack by a Black Lab the news said it was a Pit Bull and filmed a chocolate Pit Bull in the animal shelter. On another forum an Akita attack was lied about and blown out of proportion. Thats the media for you. You might actually make things safer but its not going to change those trying to make money from a story.

    I agree with your good intentions and I think its the responsibility of Pit owners to help newbies out. I see no problem with it I help people all the time. Like you said you've helped and there is no law and just the same you can't make them do it law or not as you said. So if they want to they will, there are many resources available.

    I don't know where this came from at all but.....

    Where did you get the idea of "who cares" I've helped countless people with the breed. I have had many people email me, PM, call me and run into me and ask questions and I always do my best to answer. When I see someone with a question online in a forum I do my best to answer. When I meet someone/see what someone is doing and its wrong or might lead to trouble I let them know what I think even though they didn't ask. Everyone is going to make mistakes, there are people who have read the books, researched and still make mistakes. Why because they are human. Maybe they were just busy that moment something happened, maybe they got too lax, I'm sure that even with all my experience and research I've made mistakes.

    I don't think we are like "who cares", myself nor Sara or anyone else on this forum. It was just last week I tried to "help" some people and mainly the breed out.

    We were on the way back from a dog show when I saw 2 guys walking "Pit Bulls" and I told my husband to stop. So he did I rolled down the window and asked What bloodline are your dogs? The one replied All I know is one parent was red and one parent was blue. So then I get out and ask if they are friendly and pet them. I gave them my card. My friend and husband get out and we start talking. They ask where we are from. I tell them and that we are on the way back from the dog show. Ask if they want to see our dogs. So we start taking them out and telling them about each one.

    There dogs were not good reps of the breed. The male was a giant "Pit Bull" who to me seemed to have some mastiff influence. He was panting heavily although it wasn't too hot. The female looks to be overdone staff. She is 6 months old and pretty big and blue. Well none of this is really relavent if they are good owners taking care of their dogs, but then they talk about breeding. We want to breed this male to this female. I think they were honest in wanting a true opinion. Some people get defensive when you are against them breeding and some people will listen but you can tell they don't take it to heart, but they kept asking questions and the one with the male really was trying to learn and understand.

    We explained that they are big and the breed is supposed to be a medium sized breed. Larger dogs live shorter lives and overweight dogs even shorter. My friend pulled out her 14.5yr old female to show them and they were surprised with a dog that old. The male was really overweight and panting a lot and we explained that he was short winded due to his size, weight and short muzzle. The guy said sometimes he walks him up to 2-3 miles a day but he still breaths heavy and never gets any real muscle. This was after I showed them my 11 month old male who was pretty well ripped, and I walk him the same 2 miles a day for 2.5 weeks and 3 miles for 3-4 days. Other then that he is usually well muscled, fed well and good genetics. We explained about feeding a higher quality feed and less of it. As he said he likes him to have some weight on him but he doesn't get muscle. So we were trying to help there, not only for the guy wanting a better toned dog but for the dog to have a longer, healthier life. A lot of people just don't know. We said a breeding like that we just wouldn't personally do. Why? Was the question. Well the male is too big for one, basically too bulky, shallow chested, short muzzle, straight stiffle, straight hocks. These are of course all conformation faults and I think structure is very important to a dog, more so then knit picked conformation let form follow function is what a lot of people believe, but the structure was off and these dog certainly were not functional, highly inhibited by their structure. The female looked a little better but only 6 months leaves a lot of growing time and blue is considered a fault. I said that when I ran my male he was barely panting and his dog was heavy at it. Which isn't right and wouldn't work very well as this is still a working breed. This isn't even taking into consideration of their possible health problems and I can't say what there temps were, seemed pretty friendly to both people and other dogs. They asked a bunch more questions and seemed to really understand. We talked to them for over 45 minutes. Hopefully we helped them and the breed out. Hopefully they won't do the breeding since they really seemed to realize. Less puppies born, less that will possibly be bred when they are older, less to end up in shelters, nip someone or attack another dog.

    While we were talking to these 2 guys a cop pulled up, asked what was going on. Told him we were just talking dogs. He said he didn't like Pits because everytime he's been bitten by a dog it was a Pit Bull. My friend said everytime she's been bit it was a Chi, Poodle or Cattle dog. My husband explained that its breeding that goes into a dogs temperament and how a dog is raised. We only breed for betterment, from solid lines and all dogs are friendly, we show the dogs they have to behave and can't be people aggressive, ect. He seemed to understand not all Pits are the same. I doubt that he will run up and pet every Pit he meets or that he will love them from now on, but he stayed for awhile and talked and again seemed to see that they aren't all the same. I had my female Nediva out and he said I like that one, not these 2 (about the 2 the guys had). That was nice to hear, he probably never seen a true representation of the breed. What they had is probably what he's used to, we were in the semi ghetto thugs with large dogs, I'm sure when he bust a drug dealer thats what they have large tough looking Pit mixes.

    There is no reason to bicker about things just because we don't all agree, we can be mature right? You are throwing around accusations without anything behind them or even reason to think that way. You are assuming we are ignorant just because we don't agree with your plan of action. I'm very aware of BSL! As I stated in my earlier post I will do everything in my power to fight it. I'm against it. Your type of proposal only helps them in their cause and leads to more stricter BSL. Giving in a little gives them something to go on. Maybe you don't understand that, it starts with restrictions and regulations and gets worse.

    I personally will help anyone with a question and I'm sure Sara would do the same as she did for me with Boerboels for others with Pit Bulls. Before I got a Boel I researched, read about them, asked her questions, read what the breeder said and was able to chat with her. People need to do with with all breeds. I didn't just say I want one and get it.

    As far as BSL I've donated money to the EBA, sent money to others fighting BSL and people personally fighting their dogs being seized, sent out pamplets on BSL, printed my own BSL info, called people who lived in other towns/states with proposed BSL to let them know and what they can do to help. All of these above things makes a difference. Pretty far from saying "who cares"

    Currently I'm helping a puppy buyer fight BSL in their town. I told them to contact the EBA and ADBA. I wrote a letter to the town council about what the real Pit Bull is like, what a properly bred and raised Pit Bull is like, what my dogs are like, what I do with my dogs and what type of people the buyers are like. I also sent pictures of the dogs in their dog's pedigree with children, at shows and with other dogs to better show. So yeah I think I know all about unjust proposals, I'm not blind or ignorant to them. One council memeber even told them they seem like very responsible people who will do what it takes to keep their dog.

    If people are required to take a class how many won't get a Pit because of this? How many dogs will be put down? You have to think of these things, to enforce this would mean major regulations on breeding, buying and selling Pits.

    I ask questions not to start a fight but to try and see how is this even possible?

    1. Who would teach the class? Who is qualified?
    2. How would this be available?
    If its not readily available many people won't do it and will either get a dog illegally or not get one at all. A lot of dogs have been PTS at shelters because of so much red tape and the person not being able to get the dog because they don't meet standards.
    To make this correct you'd have to have many classes across the nation, at least 1 per county, what time would these be at? Some people have school and work and can't just take off x amount of hours a day per week for how ever long.
    3. What would be taught in these classes? What do they need to know?
    4. Who is going to pay for and fund these classes? If its a federal law that means the government which means the tax payers who mostly would rather have their money spent on roads or schools and not training people on how to raise their dogs. When thats the responsible of the breeder and new owner.
    There are so many other things to consider.
    5. Would they have to take the class and thats it or pass something to be able to own a Pit? If they have to pass who decides whats sufficient info?

    But really this is not a Pit Bull only problem its a dog and owner problem. I was conditioning some of my dogs today and there is a dog up the road who always barks at us but stays in the yard. However today the owner was leaving and got out the car, yelled at the dog, caught it so of course it started freaking out. The owner doesn't realize that by him freaking out he is giving the dog all the wrong cues and causing the dog to do exactly what he doesn't want the dog to do. The dog struggled got away and charged at us barking (which it never does) then it came around in front of us and stared my dog down. The owner still yelling at it and then walking to it. He told me don't worry she just wants to play, which is totally NOT what the dog wanted to do. People don't know how to handle dogs, lots of people, they don't know behavior or cues, not just Pit owners.

    Walked another mile up the road and when we turned to go back a German Shepherd ran out I was a bit startled because I didn't see the dog when we were turned the other way and I heard it bark. The dog is usually tied out in front of the house. Must have got free. Well we turned back around and my dog was ready for a fight. It walked closer barking and stared at me I looked away and it turned its gaze to my dog and I picked her up and went to turn around. The dog turned and walked back home. Which is what a stable dog would do, the threats retreating it leaves you alone, but had we not done the right thing, had I kept walking or my dog went forward me or her would have probably been bit. If we had started screaming or ran we would have likely been bit. So its not just the owners who need to learn but those who encounter dogs. They need to know what the proper thing is to do.

    That is what your proposing punishing new Pit owners. They can gain knowledge without being forced to take a class which might force some people not to be able to even own a Pit if they can't take a class. Its up to THAT person to gain the knowledge. Just as it is up to you. We've discussed gun control a bit. Heres a question. Would you buy a gun and not researched it? Not know what that type of gun does, its function, how to load it, how to shoot it and saftey? Same goes for dogs. I also provide printed materials to new Pit owners on the breed and also info on crate training and how braking and obedience info. I'm also ready to answer any question and have actually had questions arise. People who don't take the time to learn, a lot not all, don't really care. You can give someone a book and they can read it and it just goes straight through them, believe me. One person just wouldn't get it, they even asked the questions I gave them a book and a printed page, they asked to barrow a couple of my Pit books read them and still were so freaking ignorant about the breed and proper temperament. There will always be stupid people out there, unwilling to listen and learn. You were not responsible in the beginnning if you didn't learn first. You only now realize the mistake through experience, its unfortunate but would you have believed anyone who said you need to take a class or read a book if they had told you. Probably not, most likely you would have thought you'll do just fine.
     
  15. Sara

    Sara New Member

    I'm not saying that and True is not saying that... I also never said that none of my pits have ever had a "record"... I have no idea about the background of the first pit I ever had... In fact, my whole life I swore I'd NEVER own a Pit Bull (I'm afraid of dogs mind you and those lovely stories from the late 80's about crazy pits did a number)... We found the first pit we ever had...I chose to keep him... How'd I make the decision...I mean I'd heard all the rest of the horror stories that all of the rest of the country heard... I decided to keep the dog after READING about the breed... Reading online, message boards...books...I own about 5 APBT books...even after all that responsible stuff I had a dog whom I truly believed would probably not fight so I was less vigilant with her... Low and behold she nearly killed her sister over a toy...I only blamed myself for not beleiveing what I'd already read... Hindsight is ALWAYS 20/20 but the learning about the dangerous breed was out there... The warnings were more than ample if you watch the news or read the news at all...honestly your lack of knowledge you had once upon a time was your fault...not the fault of a lack of some law that would have required you to read up on the breed.

    I understand you want to educate...you can ask even co-workers of mine...they always get an education anytime the breed comes up...wanted or not...I can be downright rude about it. I'm willing to help out anyone who asks or even who looks like they might need a word of advice...I'll butt in and I'm not afraid too. I've rescued a few pits as well and I too donate to BSL etc... I've opened my home when colorado was under fire for dogs who were in exile (None managed to come my way though)...but help is out there...lots of it...TONS of it...and it's been out there for a long time...a law isn't going to make it better...it's just going to punish everyone else who isn't at fault...

    We can agree SOMETHING'S gotta give...but creating yet another law aimed at the breed and it's responsible owners...isn't the answer.

    Sara
     
  16. True_Pits

    True_Pits New Member

    [quote="SaraI decided to keep the dog after READING about the breed... Reading online, message boards...books...I own about 5 APBT books...even after all that responsible stuff I had a dog whom I truly believed would probably not fight so I was less vigilant with her... Low and behold she nearly killed her sister over a toy...I only blamed myself for not beleiveing what I'd already read... Hindsight is ALWAYS 20/20 but the learning about the dangerous breed was out there...[/quote]

    That is exactly my point. Just because we here it in a class doesn't mean we'll listen. How much "junk" have we heard in school or other classes and we still don't listen or make mistakes.

    Take sex ed, people get it but they don't use it. They still end up with STDs and still get pregnant while they are in school.

    What about reading up on driving, some people do even take classes. That doesn't stop them from driving recklessly even though they know its wrong and the outcome.

    How about health? There are so many resources out there about healthy eating and living, so much so that you don't even have to read you can sit in front of TV and something will come on. People still eat too much of the wrong type of foods and sit around all day and end up killing themselves, diebeties (sp?), heart attack, ect

    People do what they want, whether thats responsible or not is up to them.

    When I got my 1st Pit I wasn't stupid at all. I had learned a great deal about them.
     
  17. MyPetTherapyDog

    MyPetTherapyDog New Member

    I would have to vote no and here is why: IF the people don't want it they won't learn from it and be receptive to it!
    First, I will tell you that I am an obedience instructor that specializes in obedience training "Shelter pit bulls" I own multiple pit bulls and a few pit bull mixes all adopted from various shelters. I also own a lab/golden mix.
    My first pit bull I got from a breeder. She passed away from kidney failure at 3 years old. After she died, I decided to rescue a pit bull that was on death row and I have been in full swing with pit bull rescue and obedience training ever since.
    That was over 11 years ago.
    I have offered FREE obedience training for the last 3 years on any shelter dog that I have coordinated the adoption on.
    Most people never take me up on it. They tell me that "They can train the dog themselves" So, I let them. Sometimes the dog gets returned within a few wks only to have me say "I told you so" and sometimes the dog remains in his/her home forever. BUT, For those that need and want my
    help, I hve ALWAYS Made ,myself available for ANY QUESTIONS/ISSUES.And at the time of adoption, I hold
    A"Question and Answer session' where I go over the do's and don'ts on owning a pit bull and responsibile ownership.
    I have compiled a "Everything you need to know about your newly adopted American Pit Bull Terrier" book that has articles I have personally written as well as great articles I compiled over the years.
    I reference everything in the book so the people can go to the original author's website/book. I give the new family this book at the time of adoption!
    I have had 100 percent positive feed back by doing pit bull adoptions in this manner.
    I do a call back call about 3 weeks after they have had the dog and ask how things are going and if I can offer any advice/training??? Most people are extremily receptive to this and I can troubleshoot any issues before they become to the point that the dog needs to be returned back to the shelter.

    This past week, I begain my first round of "Bully Breed" classes.
    4 of the dogs that I adopted came to class.
    I found that these people were EXTREMILY MOTIVATED and WANTED TO BE THERE!!!
    Now, to make class mandatory?
    One of the shelters I volunteer at has a mandatory training clause in the contract for pups and pit bulls.
    I have worked with quite a few people that have gotten training because they have to in order to adopt their dog.
    You want to know how these people do in my classes??? HORRIBLE!!!
    Many put 0 effort into it even after they have paid me decent money to teach them how to train their dogs.
    Why??? Because they are not motivated to learn and want to do it.
    Training has to be fun and you have to want to do it. You can't be told to. It has to be a personal choice and you must be willing to commit to the time and effort needed in order to get anything out of it.
    Public education is important. Breed Ambassadorship is important. AKC Canine Good Citizenship programs are important.
    But, the bottom line! You must be willing and receptive to learning! No one should be forced into it.
    The responsiblity should be on the breeder and/or shelters
    to make sure the dogs go to quality homes that will be educated and willing to commit to class because they want to Not because they have to!
    They should also make sure there is a spay/neuter contract so any jo smo can not go out and breed and create so many more dogs that will end up in shelters spending their final moments getting the blue juice injected into their veins by a total stranger just because the back yard breeder was in it for a quick buck and did not care who they gave their dogs to.
    I promote responsible ownership thru my work and my own dogs.
    Susan
     
  18. pitlovern

    pitlovern New Member

    Saved the bullied breed

    I understand what you are saying, I just feel that when people (like myself) get a pit bull without the education part FIRST, trouble is on the horizion! I got a Pit for my ex-husband who never had a dog before and I had never had a pit bull but I was aware of their rep I went into it blind eventhough I have had dogs before I was born 38 years ago. I had no one explaining to me why my pit was wanting to fight other males ie dog Agression or why voices got loud (like shouting at the tv during a sporting event) he would look right at me a go after my boyfriend. It wasn't until I bought Pit Bulls for Dummies things came into perspective. I had done so many things wrong. All in all my boyfriend is fine and so is my 9year old mommas shawdow pit bull Big Pun. Now If I had that knowledge before some of the accidents that happend wouldn't have. And I'm passing on my mistakes to my friend who has one of my dogs first litter. He didn't believe the things that I would tell him about Pit Bull's actions. For example Harley was comming into sexual maturity he had no idea why he was always wanting to go for a walk or why he was drooling and licking bitches urine. I told him that hes maturing and to keep him on a leash while they would be in their front yard, fortunately he listened to me because that next night a man on a bicycle with his dog came riding by Harley took off after him as my friend called him back he didn't respond he kept going after the other dog. Thank God Harley was on a leash and my friend did what I told him to do. Now he listens to EVERYTHING I tell him. Not because I'm trying to tell him how to raise his Pit only because I care and these Pits have a bad rep and I truly believe that some type of "pre-education" for new owners would be a good Idea. You can't make anyone do what they don't want to do but don't you think it would be a good idea if not to "make" them take a class STRONGLY SUGGEST some knowledge be obtained somehow so they know if they are picking the RIGHT BREED for them?

    PUNISH THE DEED NOT THE BREED!
     
  19. MyPetTherapyDog

    MyPetTherapyDog New Member

    Yup, owning pit bulls does require a responsible owner. Something I preach every day of my life! There are many steps required in becoming a responsible ownership, not just taking a class. Responsible ownership should last a lifetime.
    In my eyes, unless you are an established breeder than spaying/neutering your pits is A ALSO A HUGE part of the responsible ownership process as well.
    One of my biggest pet peeves is people breeding their pit bulls.

    If people only knew how many shelter pit bulls die each year. Just the thought of those poor dogs faces knowing they will never make it to a nice home makes me ill.

    99 percent of those dogs were bread by "Back Yard Breeders"
    Fixing the problem with this breed?
    In my eyes begins with the people that keep creating them.

    Save the breeeding for the experts!
     
  20. DeLaUK

    DeLaUK New Member

    (sorry, been away for a coupla weeks and just catching up again)
    Sara, I didnt mention the UK, the dog laws in the UK are a joke and theres as much BS here regarding dogs and dog owners as there is in the US, and if you think that the Germans have no freedom...sorry but you really need to get out more, in the countries Ive lived in (US, UK and Germany) Germany is the most relaxed, easy going place by far and they definately have their freedom of speech and freedom to make their own choices...the gmt stepped in over the dog laws 7 years ago after a little boy was killed by an Am Staff (there was a Pit involved but the Am Staff caused the fatal bites....it was also loaded up on speed, had not eaten in 3 days and the owner had a rap sheet as long as your arm including citations to keep his dogs under control)....as far as I know there have been no dogs killing kids since then...but then I guess that some people dont put much value on the life of a child....not if it means that you have to pass a basic common sense test to check if you actually have half a clue about what it takes to be a responsible dog owner.
    Like I said, I dont particularly agree with having laws like this but people cant be trusted so maybe theyre necessary.

    As far as freedom of speech goes, do you really think you have that in the US, :lol: sorry....Im still busting up laughing, you cant breath over there in the wrong direction without somone sueing for one kind of discrimination or another, if your involved in an petty arguement with someone of another race you can get arrested on racial hate crimes, I know one woman who reffered to another vet tech as 'stud' because he helped her pick up a large dog, someone heard her and she was fired on grounds of sexual discrimination....so what freedom of speech are you talking about???

    Pitlovern, sorry to have to point this out but its people like you who are the reason that laws should be in place, its okay saying youve learned by your mistakes but Ill bet that just about every person who has ANY breed of dog that has severely injured or killed a child was probably saying the same thing.

    If everyone educated themselves before getting a dog there would be no need for and most likely nobody asking for any dog laws.
     

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