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What is the State Kennel Club?

Discussion in 'Dogs - all breeds / types' started by DogLover, Jun 2, 2005.

  1. DogLover

    DogLover New Member

    I went to this breeder's house to see the puppies, and I was told that the puppies can be registered with the SKC? I tried to locate the web site online, but it returns nothing. I would be very thankful if you can tell me what the SKC is and if it is a legitimate organization.

  2. ilovemycockatiels

    ilovemycockatiels New Member

    I was looking on google for state kennel clubsand found some but none in CA but is that where you still live? Is that where the breeder is located? If not where is it and I will look it up for you if you still have no luck.
  3. Jamiya

    Jamiya New Member

    Why don't you ask the breeder for more information about it. At least ask her what SKC stands for. :)

    Unless you are planning on showing, I think I would be more concerned with proper health testing, the temperaments of the parents, and the conditions under which the pups are raised, rather than what registry organization will accept their papers.
  4. DogLover

    DogLover New Member

    From what I saw, the parents have nice personality and are in good health condition. When I asked if the breeder had done any health testing on her dogs, I was told that they are "vet certified."

    At first, I felt very comfortable with the breeder and her dogs, so I put a deposit down on one of the pups. Later on, I started to hear stories that are inconsistent with what the breeder told me previously. Therefore, I felt like I am being screwed.

    The worst thing is, I know better about the diseases associated with the breed than the breeder does. Something is wrong in the picture here... Can't even back out because she still has my check.
  5. Jamiya

    Jamiya New Member

    Be very careful. "Vet certified" could just mean a vet looked the dogs over and said, "Yep. They're healthy!" The health testing should be certifications from organizations, like OFA for hips (I think). I have never bought from a breeder so someone else would be able to give more examples.

    This woman is starting to sound like a BYB to me. It's up to you what you do. It may be worth it to lose the deposit. Or it may be worth it to buy from her if the parents seem to be well cared for and happy dogs, but understand there may be more health problems. Then again, even a dog from good lines that have had all their testing done is no guarantee.

    Does this woman offer a health guarantee? Will she take the puppy back and any time in the dog's life for any reason? Does she provide ongoing support if you have questions or concerns? Does she have a waiting list for pups, or does she just advertise in the paper and on the internet when she has a litter available? How often does she breed her dogs? How many times has the mom been bred?

    And then go with your gut feeling. Follow your head and not your heart, though. Any dog you get you will be attached to, and if it's not healthy you will have to suffer and spend money trying to help it.
  6. DogLover

    DogLover New Member

    Thanks for your inputs. Yes, the breeder does offer health guarantee, and she even covers the vet bills (associated with the hereditary diseases only) up to the amount of the puppy price. However, all that "health guarantee" is only good during the first year.

    According to what she told me, she's been breeding Cavaliers for 3 years, and she has two litters a year. What really bothers me is that she doesn't even know enough about those genetic problems in this breed and she has to ask me.

    I am very comfortable with her dogs (they all seem happy and healthy), but I am getting really uncomfortable with the breeder. Where do I draw the line? :( Sorry, I am very depressed...
  7. duckling

    duckling New Member

    Hmm, if she's not familiar with common medical conditions, that would definitely be a red flag for me. No heart, eye, or patella certifications? Considering that early mitral valve failure is so common with Cavaliers (not to mention expensive, heart-breaking, and incurable), I wouldn't buy from anyone who hasn't at least gotten the breeding stock's hearts checked. If you're otherwise comfortable with this breeder, maybe you could ask her for references from her vet(s) and previous buyers? And ask if the parents have no sign of heart problems, how old are the parents?

    "Unfortunately, the Cavalier is showing the disease at a much younger age, with around 10% of dogs under one year of age having a heart murmur, and probably more than 50% of 5 year olds having murmurs. Although not all of these dogs will die or even become ill because of the disease, probably 60% of dogs over 9 years of age are likely to have advanced disease. As we shall see later, there is now strong evidence of a genetic basis for mitral valve disease in both Cavalier and Dachshunds." http://home.vicnet.net.au/~cavalier/mitral.htm

    http://www.ckcsc.org/ckcsc/formsdocs.ns ... CD00641455

    It's probably not typical, but some breeders offer a 5 year heart guarantee for Cavaliers. One year only seems particularly risky if the parents are young and/or haven't been tested.

    http://www.puppydogweb.com/caninebreeds ... paniel.htm
  8. DogLover

    DogLover New Member

    Thanks for all your inputs. I asked for and called the references. The dogs they got from this breeder are all 2-year and above, and the owners claimed that they are very happy with their Cavaliers and would recommend this breeder.

    My first Cavalier has hip dysplasia, therefore I am very concerned about the health of the second Cavalier that I am getting. Although all this lady has is a "vet certified," she was at least very honest with what she knows and what she does not know.

    The parents of the litter were also on site. Both are very healthy, from what I can tell. This lady also offers boarding service, and I saw that many Cavalier owners are satisfied with her service, etc.

    Forgive me. I might be too depressed these days... However, I need to be responsible for whatever I do. Gotta go to bed now, too tired to think through my mind right now.
  9. Jamiya

    Jamiya New Member

    Awwww, I'm sorry this is hitting you so hard! No dog comes with any guarantees, even one from the best breeder in the world. Getting references was a good idea. I think whether you decide to buy from her or not, you should collect some information from the "good breeder" sites that people here have linked to before (check out the sticky) and print it out and give it to her. Don't make it negative or an accusation or anything, just tell her you thought she might like more information.

    I'm thinking she is a basically honest person who is breeding dogs that she loves and is unaware of the issues of health certifications and choosing the correct parents for her pups by researching lines, etc. She probably just thought, "Wouldn't it be fun to breed!" and so far has been very lucky that nothing horrible has happened.

    If you think the pups have been raised in a loving home and socialized well and the parents are free from any major health issues and the references were all positive (although, she wouldn't give you the names of people who were unhappy), then I think I might go ahead and buy from her (but give her information). I know others here will disagree with me.
  10. DogLover

    DogLover New Member

    Jamiya, I agree with you. This breeder definitely loves all her dogs, but she's just not knowledgeable as she should be. I told her very straight that she should do health testing on her dogs, regardless of their current positive health condition. Please do not be sorry, there had just been a lot of pressure on me these days, but I got out of it now. :D

    Yeah, I made up my mind that I should take the puppy home when she reaches 8 week old. And you were right, no dog came with absolute guarantee. Human get sick too, so do animals. We don't abandon our babies even when they were born with any sort of dysfunction.

    Speaking of the reputable breeder. You would not believe what I experienced a few month ago, while I was locating a good breeder in the area. It's a long story, so be patient reading it.

    I went through some dramatic experiences with these "show breeders." It bothered me so much that I decided to share the stories with everyone here. In hopes to acquire a healthy, happy puppy, I went to the breed club to locate the list of local breeders, who at the same time show their dogs at the ring. Supposedly, these breeders really take good care of their dogs.

    They all sounded very nice and polite in the emails and phone calls… I went to the first show breeder’s home and saw the new litter of puppies. Of course, the puppies were cute. I was in deep shock to see how UGLY the adult dogs were. Supposedly, they were show dogs, but they were filthy and FAT. The person claimed that she was busy with the move and didn’t have time to wash these dogs. And, one of the adult female could not make it into the show ring, and this lady was trying to sell her to someone else. I don't know how it works in the show ring, but I personally don't think it's a right thing to get rid of any dog who couldn't be shown. Of course, I didn’t get any puppy from her.

    I had also contacted the second show breeder who was expecting a litter. Later during the conversation, I found out that she needed someone to supervise the mother and the new born puppies while she’s gone to work. And, in our conversation she asked me if I could be home most of the time to care for the new puppy??!! She didn't want to sell her puppy to anyone who can't be home with the dog, and she's leaving her own dogs home? How ironic.

    It really disguised me in the stomach when I encountered the above. Anyway, it's weekend. Time to relax. Wish you the same.
  11. Shineillusion

    Shineillusion New Member

    Oh, I have to comment on selling dogs that don't turn out to be up to par for the show ring. When I lost my dachshund at the ripe old age of 17 I was devestated. He'd been my best buddy all those years, and it took my quite some time to be ready to take on another one.

    I contacted a breeder I knew who is also a groomer (that's how I met her). I told her what I was interested in, dog wise, and she came back with "Boy, do I have a dog for you!"

    Olsen was intended to be a show dog. But he has extra teeth, and his nose is about 1/4 inch too short to have a correct head. So she decided to sell him as a pet. He came out of a house where he was just one of many dogs, all different ages, into a house where he's one of two. And the other one of two is old and doesn't do much, so in effect, he has the run of things.

    When I bought him, he was 16 months old. Of course he was confused and scared when he first arrived. But it didn't take him long to figure out being one of two is much more fun than being one of many. He not only has his own bed, he has his own toys that don't have to be shared. He has laps and window sills that he doesn't have to share. He's living the life of a prince.

    Now, if you asked Olsen what he thinks of being sold just because he didn't have what it takes to be a show dog, what do you think he'd tell you?

    I know there are a lot of responsible breeders who have never set foot in the show ring. And there are a lot of show breeders who have never been responsible, and never will be. One of the first question people should ask a breeder they're concidering purchasing a puppy from is "What if I can't keep the dog? Will you take it back?" If they don't answer "Yes, no matter what age or circumstances, if you can't keep the dog it comes back to me" then I wouldn't buy a puppy from them. IMO, THAT'S being responsible.

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